cryptonator.com is a scam

[Ukuhudu]

Cryptonator is a scam , when I open my account I use it smoothly then sends some BTC and exchange it to LTC later I tried sending out the LTC that's where the problem started and the money was unable to sent, after trying many times , I logout later trying to relogin again then is says "Invalid email/login or password or
captcha", then I decided to reset my password , A new password was generated for me try to relogin still showing " "Invalid email/login or password or captcha".
Then I email Support not receive any reply after more than 24hrs then I resend them my complaint, they replied to ,
Cryptonator support (Cryptonator)
Aug 3, 14:30
First try to close your browser in order to delete old
auth sessions and then try to log in again.
If it didn't help, try resting your password here
https://www.cryptonator.com/auth/recovery
 I do all that sill can't login and I replied to them,
uku hudu
Aug 3, 14:48
Hello,
I close my browser, and deleted all history , caches
and others also reseted my password still I can't
login.
Please what should I do.
Thanks
   They send me a nonsense reply which I was unable to understand,
Cryptonator support (Cryptonator)
Aug 3, 15:53
Please advise the last password which was generated
for you.
   I replied again,
uku hudu
Aug 3, 16:14
What do you mean advice the last password
generated for me, I don't know the hell that's wrong
with your system 2 days still can't login reset
password many times. And alwas telling me invalid
email/login, password or capatch,
I tried many different browsers please refresh my
account from your system.
    They replied
Cryptonator support (Cryptonator)
Aug 3, 16:35
As we can see from the logs, you have requested
password reset four times, and you have received
four new automatically generated passwords.
Due to many suspenseful login attempts, login to
your account was put on hold. Hold is now expired.
Please try to log in using the last, i.e. the fourth
password which you have received.
   And Again
Cryptonator support (Cryptonator)
Aug 3, 16:39
OK, once again, lets make it simple
did you get four password reset emails with new
passwords?
     ME,
No I only received 2 passwords and the last rest I do
is around 2 hours ago and this was generated for me
jFk1e4oD
I just tried to relogin using the above password and
it was denied.
Thanks
        Cryptonator,
Cryptonator support (Cryptonator)
Aug 3, 16:50
then you are trying to log in using INCORRECT
password
we have just manually reset your password. you
need to click on the link in the password reset email
and then you will receive your new password
restart your browser before trying it
          ME,
uku hudu
Aug 3, 17:02
I have use the newly generated password and this is
what the system show me. " Invalid email/login or
password" what the hell is wrong with your system ,
I'm suspecting you're trying to scam me, please stop wasting my time just tell me
Your money is gone, we scam you it will be better.
      Cryptonator
Cryptonator support (Cryptonator)
Aug 3, 18:48
We really wanted to help you out. However, after all
these insults, your are alone with your problems.
Your tickets will not be answered.

The above convesation is how the cryptonator scammed me , and still my money is inside the account which I can't login , I believe this is a new form of scam. Anyway please for anyone reading this post try to avoid Those crap called Crptonator.

[1715572485]

1715572485

[1715572485]

1715572485

[Coinnosaurus]

Maybe it's a bug ...

[CEG5952]

I did some google search about reviews on their services. Honestly, this is the first time I've heard of this wallet. Seems unpopular. Anyway, try to download their app and login with it with the new password. Worth the shot.

PS: I'm not affiliated with them. Don't let rage overcome you. Calm down and solve the problem.

[johnnysof]

+1 Definitely a scam site. I had put different coins in their online wallet and now I'm not able to withdrawal them. Each withdrawal I started for DASH or LTC goes to "pending" and stays like that for days (I have pending withdrawals that are 5 days old!!!).
Support does not reply to my emails and I'm really sad with those thefts!
 

[teamcryptonator]

We would like to note, that all the above statements are not true.

Please refer to these topics for more info

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1470842.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1727256.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1686518.0

etc.

Before posting false statements, please at least try reaching out to us support@cryptonator.com

[teamcryptonator]

99.9 percents of russian based sites are scam!

Arguable judgment, just like "99.9 percents of xvervfs are idiots"  

Well, anyway even if it was a "russian based site" then it's in the 0.1% of legit services

[niscky]

I sent 2 XMR to my Monero address in Cryptonator five days ago, still not appearing in my account, they never answer support emails, I have sent several emails thru website and by replying their automatic response, not any answer at all.

[coinbeamer]

@teamcryptonator:

Question:

1.41 ZEC are 121 Euro

When i try to change it to Euro, 1.41 ZEC are 116,64 Euro


Maybe i didnt see the fee for changing, but what is the exact fee and why is there this significant difference?
Your calculator also "says" 121 EU ...

[qbaa_p]

I sent some BTC from online wallet on cryptonator and they didnt arrive yet nor they arent in blockchain.info as a trade....

Nobody from cryptonator respond me to any of my mails nor tweets....are the bitcoins lost?

Did they help somebody with that kind of problem?


I request (no. 66325) to solve this issue - no response for couple of days...


Please help what can i do?

[NABiT]

I sent some BTC from online wallet on cryptonator and they didnt arrive yet nor they arent in blockchain.info as a trade....

Nobody from cryptonator respond me to any of my mails nor tweets....are the bitcoins lost?

Did they help somebody with that kind of problem?


I request (no. 66325) to solve this issue - no response for couple of days...


Please help what can i do?

I haven't used Cryptonator in a long time but I did once have a problem with a withdrawal and it took a long time to resolve much like most exchanges nowadays.

You could try getting in touch via twitter - https://twitter.com/cryptonatorcom

[qbaa_p]

I tried to get help via email, twitter, fb, support.... no reaction for days...
I read a lot and some people suggest they are scam some not...

But I dont see this at blockchain.info website this makes my worry...
What can be the cause? Anybody?

[CheapDayTrader]

They tried to play it off like he got 4 emails instead of 2 because they were going to use that as an excuse for him not being able to log in, that's funny haha

[partizan30]

 yes
cryptonator is Fake ! i lose all my coin in cryptonator.com

There is no support for this online wallet

I enabled   2 step verification via google app authentication  to log in , on my account  ....

 but after  enabled it  from the site ,  i did not received the code on my Mobile  !!!!   

so i can not log in now .. i do not have access to my coins

there is no support team for this online wallet els one robot can not do anything

 .. bcs i contat them many times i do not revived the code on my mobile please send verification code to my email or disable it manualy

no one reply me  , only i received a ticket no from their robot  said :

""
===========SUPPORT IS OVERLOADED WITH REQUESTS. FIRST RESPONSE TIME 48-72 HOURS=============

Hello

Thanks for reaching out!

Your request (79293) has been received and is being reviewed by our support staff. We strive to answer all e-mail support requests within one business day.

""""


But not happen anythings in future  ... no one reply 


every one leave this fake online wallet

cryptonator.com is fake and scam !

You will lose whole of your money one day !

hold your money in your personal wallet . 

cryptonator.com is fake and scam !

[Philshag]

any update on that? No funds, no reply, nothing? Please advice. I just opened an account, but based on this review and others, I contacted Customer Service and I am waiting for their reply.
Cheers
Martin

[Peetwaa]

I also opened a topic about cryptonator. Look at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2628097.0 if something happen I will update the topic.

[partizan30]

 No funds, no reply, nothing !

i lost all my coins
650 coins of ripple & 52000 dogecoins  near 2000 $ now ,     i lost all of them , i can not log in my account....
bcs cryptonator support do not reply me  ... i lost my phone and instal new authenticator again on new phone , also i lost my secret key it was in my phone , so i do not receive authentication code on my mobile and can not log in ...
i contact over 10 times to help desk of cryptonator.com   ... but no one replied me ...

I think they steal my 650 ripples & 52000 doge coins ,,,,   they do not want to reply me   


every body  cryptonator have no support at all ... it is only a software program and robot ... no human work in this wallet ( or they are robber )

if one day accured a problem for your account , log in ...  there is no human to answer you !

extreme alarm ...  cryptonator.com is a big scam !  
leave it ASAP !

[partizan30]

Please help me

why cryptonator.com  help center do not reply ?

I can not log in my account bcs of 2 step verification code

why this site do not reply me ? i can not login

[Peetwaa]

When did you send your mails to the helpdesk?

[partizan30]

i sent my request to help desk 20th december 2017

I ask cryptonator.com to contact me asap ! i can not login ....

please help me ,

my email address is : mpco10@gmail.com

[Peetwaa]

I sent a mail on 19 Decemeber which still isn't answered..

[rs7000]

hello everyone, beware cryptonator, I put ether and 18 days after my account is still not credited, so far many people complain about the same problem.
they have funds in ether at this address 0x0975CA9F986EeE35F5CbbA2d672ad9bc8D2a0844 but do not credit user accounts. and not only in ethereum but in all different currencies. in short pay close attention to cryptonator. you risk losing your money.

[partizan30]

I sent a mail on 19 Decemeber which still isn't answered..

what is your problem and did you received ticket ?

[partizan30]

what was your problem ?!

why cryptonator.com do not reply ?! what do you think herein ? it is scam ?!

[rs7000]

Hello, cryptonator does not pay these users they store all the currencies since December, so why? they do not answer either on the support since December ... nothing good in perspective

[rs7000]

blocking also SEPA withdrawals

[Peetwaa]

I sent a mail on 19 Decemeber which still isn't answered..

what is your problem and did you received ticket ?

I sent Ripple to my address, they appear in block explorer, not in my wallet. Two weeks later they are transferred to the account of cryptonator, without seeing them once in my account. I just loged in at cryptonator and saw the Ripple wallet is in maintenance right now, so hopefully after that I finally receive my ripple.

I also opened a topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2628097.0

[arzhang211211]

Hi, I had 2 Doge ( 56998) + ( 20,587.34455802 ) transfer 7 days ago, not yet deposited with my account.can help me pls
Link transaction:
https://dogechain.info/address/DBx4q2XRw8r9L2PP4c4WDUiiyMiJW7mAds



The site administrator does not respond,

is Cryptonator is SCAM?
WHERE is my MONEY?

[vanuatu]

Me too, I have 113 DOGE that vanished in transaction - they did not show up in my cryptonator wallet and support did not answer yet to my ticket from Jan. 2, 2018.

https://dogechain.info/address/DFKUB9rmHz683Da1jR7uNvZmsydA6GGLB5

Consequently I have emptied my account from other coins (dash, withdrawn successful yesterday).
It is a pity, I was planning to use cryptonator for altcoin trading, but this business style is  not acceptable for me.

[rs7000]

hello to all, we can make them understand that we are dissatisfied with their service by withdrawing all the funds that you are able to withdraw ... let's all be united
they will leave but not rich

[depster]

Thank you so much for this WARNING post !!! I was just about to send $100 worth Bitcoin to Cryptonator until the last moment I decided to Google the general comments on this website and saw your post. I'm sorry for what happened. Crypto-currency Scam seems to be everywhere; we have to be cautious.

[bigvito19]

That's why you should have your own private keys instead of using these exchanges

[godzila2018]

Me too, I have 113 DOGE that vanished in transaction - they did not show up in my cryptonator wallet and support did not answer yet to my ticket from Jan. 2, 2018.

https://dogechain.info/address/DFKUB9rmHz683Da1jR7uNvZmsydA6GGLB5

Consequently I have emptied my account from other coins (dash, withdrawn successful yesterday).
It is a pity, I was planning to use cryptonator for altcoin trading, but this business style is  not acceptable for me.

i have same problem . lost my coins.

[jack33a]

Yes, www.cryptonator.com is a BIG SCAM


I sent of 2 my accounts on www.block.io ( 754.51Doge + 532.90 Doge ) to www.cryptonator.com/ a few days ago but www.cryptonator.com didn't show that  received them.

I wrote 3 emails to them but they didn't answer.


https://live.blockcypher.com/doge/tx/d17598840376a9b4436df10e03570bff5ee2d718f47b4d383683c2a5244be2de/

https://live.blockcypher.com/doge/tx/07c2f47ee14e96c327a2cc335556ed28f92d3c0cfac7a6d40f942ce283d8f4b4/

I wanted exchange Dogecoin to Bitcoin


www.cryptonator.com has a very good software but is pity that is a SCAM.

This site could change to a power site in the world.

[rs7000]

even more people scammed ... empty all accounts possible ... quickly run away

[fanicate]

Hello i have sent to my cryptonator adress 7600 dogecoin in 27.2017 and not even today i dont have it in my acount.
https://dogechain.info/tx/e71377e434c501dad0924855762c813a91f70fed3995ad8cd15d65fcf719a705

thei receive it from 29 dec but they dont even answer to my email
can someone do somthing to help??


they are  a big scam i think they use our money to do bussines

[jack33a]

They think that they can easily eat people's money, but cancer and a variety of dangerous illnesses are waiting for them.

I witnessed this event for those who ate the people's money

[erguno]

IT WAS 10 DAYS !!!

My two transactions are also lost ! I opened 2 different tickets but no answer. These transactions are not first. I got more than 50 payments to my wallet but these two are not visible in my wallet. No Pending, lost.

Is there any suggestion ?

My Wallet is t1WCdU5yy6nxpGve2zran4ZDugKV6nv7kn1
and transactions are
86f0934297cc5e5ca5a83100637a3491383c251b9ea643d2f183b89de116294f -- Dec 28, 2017 9:21:45 AM --> 0.01981 ZEC
e0c2bd8717b09badd40440c668667d9ba4549ba81012c52bd194c1f7e1ccd9c7 -- Jan 8, 2018 11:50:04 AM --> 0.01037 ZEC

[Ares_69]

 Hi all:
On December 22, I made a deposit of 0.04 btc in Cryptonator. It immediately came out reflected in my cryptonator wallet as "pending". 2 days later it disappeared without further ado. I have written 5 emails without any response.
 Obviously the transaction is confirmed in blockchain.
 If we are several people affected by this theft, do you think it would be possible to take legal action against them?

 Sorry for muy english, I write from Spain using a translator.

[jack33a]

Hi Ares_69

That is hard, but we can

[Applepinecon]

hi everybody,
I don't know whether this information may help you but, I was really worried by this discussion so I tried to move all my coins to private wallets. So I did just few minutes a go; I moved my BCN to my private wallet and the transaction worked in few seconds. Also: my ripple wallet was frozen like many other I suppose, so I turned my ripple coins into BCN and moved 'em too: also this procedure worked perfectly.

[Peetwaa]

I finally received my coins after 3.5 weeks

[godzila2018]

I finally received my coins after 3.5 weeks

i did not.
good for u.

[jack33a]

Also  I didn't receive my dogecoins.



( They write on site that :
We are experiencing delays in processing ETH, XRP and DOGE transactions due to the servers` overload caused by the increased amount of new registrations and grown users` activity. Hardware upgrade is scheduled on the coming weekend. We apologize for the inconvenience! )


I hope this subject is right.

[WeFundAnyDeal]

I have also sent an email and had no reply at all

[godzila2018]

Also  I didn't receive my dogecoins.



( They write on site that :
We are experiencing delays in processing ETH, XRP and DOGE transactions due to the servers` overload caused by the increased amount of new registrations and grown users` activity. Hardware upgrade is scheduled on the coming weekend. We apologize for the inconvenience! )


I hope this subject is right.

i lost my zec!

[wouhn]

Also  I didn't receive my dogecoins.



( They write on site that :
We are experiencing delays in processing ETH, XRP and DOGE transactions due to the servers` overload caused by the increased amount of new registrations and grown users` activity. Hardware upgrade is scheduled on the coming weekend. We apologize for the inconvenience! )


I hope this subject is right.

i lost my zec!

I also lost my ZEC.

[juntuntajica]

On 25th Dec I converted around 0.3BTC to EUR and did a SEPA withdrawal. After a few days of not receiving my money, they posted on their site that they have problems with sepa transactions and I never received my moeny. They are also not replying on emails.. HUGE SCAM

[rs7000]

hello to all after 35 days waiting cryptonator just returned my ethereum ... well ... I was able to remove them

[godzila2018]

 

SEPA refunds Unfortunately, no SEPA euro withdrawals will be possible in the near future, as our partner Bitwala has shut down service. All euro withdrawals sent from Cryptonator wallet in the time frame from 25.12.2017 to 03.01.2017 will be refunded on the next week.

[Behnia]

Hello,
I have sent some XRP from cryptonator but it has not received yet.
This is information of this transaction. Also this transaction can not be found on XRP chart.
Date
10.01.2018 18:09 UTC+03:30
Transaction ID
FB8AD078B53B3D97D4230014FDE9A5B51C59891C529AFBE0BDDE9A5243E4741A
Ticket number: 91624

After 9 days support team has not answered to my email . It is a very awful support and my profit has been impacted by this attitude.  

BR

[partizan30]

This user :
Peetwaa

 look is from cryptonator ..... he lie .

[AntifeministWarrior]

I had the same problem. Thank God we only tested the online wallet at Cryptonator with a tiny amount of LiteCoin. Anyway 2 days later and it still hasn't arrived. I already left a negative review on TrustPilot for their site and noticed that 95% of the reviews and google searches about Cryptonator are negative. This site is definitely a scam, DO NOT USE IT!

[AntifeministWarrior]

Still no response from Cryptonator. These jerks are DEFINITELY a scam. Avoid them!

[ProdigyLEON]

Xз peбят, кaк y вac, зaвoдил и вывoдил дeньги c кpиптoнaтopa бeз пpoблeм, нa нeгo мaйнитcя мoй зeк, бывaют зaдepжки , нo вce пoтoм дoxoдит. eдинcтвeннoe нeпoнятнo пoчeмy oтключили ввoд и вывoд дeнeг чepeз яндeкc кoшeлeк и чepeз кapтoчки, былo oчeнь yдoбнo

[AntifeministWarrior]

Xз peбят, кaк y вac, зaвoдил и вывoдил дeньги c кpиптoнaтopa бeз пpoблeм, нa нeгo мaйнитcя мoй зeк, бывaют зaдepжки , нo вce пoтoм дoxoдит. eдинcтвeннoe нeпoнятнo пoчeмy oтключили ввoд и вывoд дeнeг чepeз яндeкc кoшeлeк и чepeз кapтoчки, былo oчeнь yдoбнo

what?

[Aritmethos]

Scam Report here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2842211.msg29152627#msg29152627

[AntifeministWarrior]

Scam Report here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2842211.msg29152627#msg29152627

Thanks, I'll add my story there

[Aritmethos]

Hi all, thanks for your reply. I have written a long post on steemit: https://steemit.com/cryptonator/@aritmethos/cryptonator-a-large-working-scam-page
Please share this message as often and as many as you can.

[matrixbank]

99.9 percents of russian based sites are scam!

Arguable judgment, just like "99.9 percents of xvervfs are idiots"  

Well, anyway even if it was a "russian based site" then it's in the 0.1% of legit services

Hi,
I am using cryptonator.com
Support never responded.
Please help

My main user id is: ki********123@gmail.com
my support ticket ids:
82749
80019
77315

I sent 23756.1300 doges to my doge wallet address: DUEB6Rc3NnSeaoiUNDVV6NWewdGf8wfK8b
Balance not yet shown, transaction done on: 2017-12-26 04:56:50
Transaction id:
332779a9bb1bdbe8e6d3e02a634d4e4a8d32d662cc61cdc9ea8b3cb9b15f160c

https://dogechain.info/tx/332779a9bb1bdbe8e6d3e02a634d4e4a8d32d662cc61cdc9ea8b3cb9b15f160c

Please update my balance!
Thank you

[jinksters09]

It says that cryptonator enables fast and easy direct transactions and allows instant exchange between different cryptocurrencies in one personal account. Combining usability with high level privacy , anonymity and security, Cryptonator offers free multi-cryptocurrency accounts, which are accessible 24/7 worldwide on your laptop, desktop or mobile devices alike. But when I tried to put my btc and etc on it I waited for almost 1 week and there is no response. I start worrying because a I put almost all my money on it but still there is no response I tried to retrieve and pull out but unfortunately my money was gone. Cryptonator was highly scammers please be aware

[freddy4]

Yes - also having problems with Cryptonator login. Luckily, I don't have any of my coins going to them.

[SanHe]

I wait since 22.12.2018 on the credit of my deposit of 15000 DogeCoin.

These are visible in the blockchain, including my wallet DPSYHbNTtUivqGiSaQJLJ28ijRMpo1sm3G on Cryptonator.

>>> !!! But are not credited to my account at Cryptonator!!! <<<<

https://dogechain.info/address/DPSYHbNTtUivqGiSaQJLJ28ijRMpo1sm3G
https://dogechain.info/tx/accd1db63e80cd3eb043c57e84946ad2f2b1273c881145ea62f695ab28fa8b2f

request (76147)   25.12.2017
request (77867)   28.12.2017
request (79642)   30.12.2017
request (92433)   16.01.2018
request (103181) 10.02.2018

No answer to any of my support tickets, no help, no money back .. nothing nothing nothing ...

I had several different coins at Cryptonator, I found the Ideas to have good different coins in one place.
Have exchanged some coins, received and sent ... that worked many times.

Because I do not get any help here, I have deducted all coins and can only warn everyone against this website.

DO NOT go to Cryptonator, you will NOT get help with any problems and will lose your money!

I have been waiting for more than 50 days for my money !!

[HUSEYIN07]

I wait since 22.12.2018 on the credit of my deposit of 15000 DogeCoin.

These are visible in the blockchain, including my wallet DPSYHbNTtUivqGiSaQJLJ28ijRMpo1sm3G on
Cryptonator.

>>> !!! But are not credited to my account at Cryptonator!!! <<<<

https://dogechain.info/address/DPSYHbNTtUivqGiSaQJLJ28ijRMpo1sm3G
https://dogechain.info/tx/accd1db63e80cd3eb043c57e84946ad2f2b1273c881145ea62f695ab28fa8b2f

request (76147)   25.12.2017
request (77867)   28.12.2017
request (79642)   30.12.2017
request (92433)   16.01.2018
request (103181) 10.02.2018

No answer to any of my support tickets, no help, no money back .. nothing nothing nothing ...

I had several different coins at Cryptonator, I found the Ideas to have good different coins in one place.
Have exchanged some coins, received and sent ... that worked many times.

Because I do not get any help here, I have deducted all coins and can only warn everyone against this website.

DO NOT go to Cryptonator, you will NOT get help with any problems and will lose your money!

I have been waiting for more than 50 days for my money !!

i am waiting 27.000 dogecoin from december too .

[SanHe]

Today I wait 55 days, no answer, no coins back ...

[srvagg]

Cryptonator.com is a SCAM - NO DOUBT

They kept my money, my login, and everything else i had in their site..  _ DO NOT USE THIS SITE _ YOU WILL LOSE EVERYTHING!!!!!!

It is a RUSSIAN SCAMMERS!!!!
   

I sent a request on Feb 15 (7 days ago) and they never replied.

to me:

##- Please type your reply above this line -##
===========SUPPORT IS OVERLOADED WITH REQUESTS. FIRST RESPONSE TIME 48-72 HOURS============= (1 request from me)

Hello

Thanks for reaching out!

Your request (xxxxxx) has been received and is being reviewed by our support staff. We strive to answer all e-mail support requests within one business day.

To add additional comments, simply reply to this email. We will get back to you shortly.

With best regards,
Cryptonator Support Team
Visit our Help Center https://www.cryptonator.com/hc/en-us

P.S. Please do not duplicate your ticket. It won't affect the response time.

[SanHe]

Today I wait  74 days, no answer, no coins back ...

DO NOT go to Cryptonator, you will NOT get help with any problems and will lose your money!

[kostetskydmitry]

Hi,

Cryptonator is a scam. I have sent 0.9 BTC to my friend's wallet from this site, but it is still in pending on my side for 2 days and my friend didn't any payment yet.

[goalbysummer]

Cryptonator was working fine for me for 5 months as I was collecting DOGECOIN. As soon as Coinbase opened their DOGECOIN wallet capabilities I withdrew my 60,818 Doge as a send to my new Coinbase Doge wallet. It was about $25K USD worth of Doge.

That was on June 4th, 2021.

It is now January 14th, 2022 and my transaction is still "pending". It has not been returned to my available balance nor has it had a transaction ID assigned to it, so it is in LIMBO indefinitely, it appears. It is still worth over $10K and they have been holding it hostage for over SEVEN MONTHS.

I have sent probably 15-20 requests to support@cryptonator.com and while I get the instant-reply of "someone will address your concern within 48 hours" nonsense, no one HAS addressed my concern, I get NO feedback beyond the instant reply, and my 60,818 Dogecoins are STILL in PENDING mode stuck on the the cryptonator account. I have filed an SEC complaint, a complaint with the FTC and contacted my attorney general, and I am out of ideas as to how to access my Dogecoin. HELP!!!!!!!!