How to clone Bitcoin to create your own crypto currency / crypto shares system

[phelix]

   
[Idea] Arbitrary bonds (fiat, gold, options), shares, votes - via Cryptocurrency

to be more specific:

* register a thousand namecoin names like ncs/yourcompany_000 to ..._999
* trade shares on bitcoin-otc like a boss or directly - decentralized
* send dividends to shares in nmc
* let share holders vote via name values if you like

Namecoin is being merge mined and currently has 42% of bitcoin difficulty.

This operation is not 100% free but will cost $2 or so


http://namecoin.info
http://nx.bit  ( http://bitcoinx.com/charts )


I am thinking about throwing together a script to make handling multiple names easier.

There is no point trading shares when the company they are shares of has run off with the loot.
[...]

this problem you still need to solve.

[killerstorm]

[Idea] Arbitrary bonds (fiat, gold, options), shares, votes - via Cryptocurrency

Well, this is quite similar to colored coins, aside from namecoin integration.

I've even mentioned your thread on colored coin project announcement: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106373.0

[sron]

I don't believe too much in the colored bitcoin idea.

I prefer the idea of a multitude of bitcoin clones with variable parameters.

With regard to the mining issue, I have a hunch there might be a way around it.

[killerstorm]

I don't believe too much in the colored bitcoin idea.

It really isn't just an idea anymore, concrete implementation is currently under development. There is a prototype which is demonstrated to work.

It is vouched for by some members of core development team, particularly Jeff Garzik. See here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106373.msg1225948#msg1225948

You cannot simply not believe in it, it's already a reality.

I prefer the idea of a multitude of bitcoin clones with variable parameters.

It's certainly your right to prefer one thing over another, but it would be more constructive if you listed concrete cons/pros of different methods.

You can find a discussion of colored coins vs. merged mining here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106449.msg1231210#msg1231210

[phelix]

[Idea] Arbitrary bonds (fiat, gold, options), shares, votes - via Cryptocurrency

Well, this is quite similar to colored coins, aside from namecoin integration.

I've even mentioned your thread on colored coin project announcement: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106373.0

I like the colored coins idea (and the name) but pretty much the only advantage vs namecoin that I see is divisibility.

Namecoin has other advantages:
* it is available and running right now
* it can be used for many other things like: wot, newscast, aliases, ...

With a wot established it could be used for a truly decentralized but automatic exchange. You could just offer your shares by setting the value field to something like: "ask:42.0nmc". A buyer can then send the money to the name and will receive the name in return. of course you have to trust the person holding the name.

[killerstorm]

I like the colored coins idea (and the name) but pretty much the only advantage vs namecoin that I see is divisibility.

Yes, divisibility. Also, less blockchain bloat, I think.

Namecoin has other advantages:
* it is available and running right now
* it can be used for many other things like: wot, newscast, aliases, ...

Colored coins are also available and running right now. How so?

• they can "run" on top of any blockchain, particularly, Bitcoin and Namecoin
• basic implementation already exists
• implementation is not released to public yet, but neither is your hypothetic script

So I'd say right now colored coins are closer to becoming a real thing.

As for advantages of Namecoin, nobody stops you from using colored namecoins. So you can grab colored coin implementation, apply it to Namecoin client and then integrate it with Namecoin's advanced features.

With a wot established it could be used for a truly decentralized but automatic exchange.

"Truly decentralized but automatic exchange" are possible without WoT too, as atomic coin swaps are 100% secure. Some reputation system might be needed to prevent order book spam, but I doubt that WoT is needed here since there is no way for people to lose their money.

You could just offer your shares by setting the value field to something like: "ask:42.0nmc". A buyer can then send the money to the name and will receive the name in return. of course you have to trust the person holding the name.

Atomic coin swap can make trade 100% secure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112007.0

As for order announces, it can be done over a simple p2p network. It's not a rocket science.

[phelix]

I like the colored coins idea (and the name) but pretty much the only advantage vs namecoin that I see is divisibility.

Yes, divisibility. Also, less blockchain bloat, I think.

Namecoin has other advantages:
* it is available and running right now
* it can be used for many other things like: wot, newscast, aliases, ...

Colored coins are also available and running right now. How so?

• they can "run" on top of any blockchain, particularly, Bitcoin and Namecoin
• basic implementation already exists
• implementation is not released to public yet, but neither is your hypothetic script

So I'd say right now colored coins are closer to becoming a real thing.

challenge accepted  

As for advantages of Namecoin, nobody stops you from using colored namecoins. So you can grab colored coin implementation, apply it to Namecoin client and then integrate it with Namecoin's advanced features.

This would be very nice but also more complex.

With a wot established it could be used for a truly decentralized but automatic exchange.

"Truly decentralized but automatic exchange" are possible without WoT too, as atomic coin swaps are 100% secure. Some reputation system might be needed to prevent order book spam, but I doubt that WoT is needed here since there is no way for people to lose their money.

You could just offer your shares by setting the value field to something like: "ask:42.0nmc". A buyer can then send the money to the name and will receive the name in return. of course you have to trust the person holding the name.

Atomic coin swap can make trade 100% secure: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112007.0

this is good news indeed. So I could broadcast a half tx and whoever completes it is the partner in trade?

As for order announces, it can be done over a simple p2p network. It's not a rocket science.

Namecoin is not rocket science either but it is running already and waiting for someone to play with it.

[killerstorm]

this is good news indeed. So I could broadcast a half tx and whoever completes it is the partner in trade?

Suppose A wants to exchange his coins for coins B has. I think minimal version is this:

1. A publishes an offer which has information on what coins A has, what he wants to receive, A's address, A's contact info.

2. B discovers A's offer, accepts it, creates a transaction and signs his input. But this transaction doesn't have A's signature. So it is again published somewhere.

3. A discovers B's incomplete transaction, signs his input and broadcast this full transaction into coin network.

Bitcoin nodes relay only correct transactions, so you cannot use this protocol to broadcast offers and incomplete transactions.

On the bright side, it's possible to use something as simple as IRC or email to do trading. (I plan to use HTTP for this.)

[Sunny King]

I like the colored coins idea (and the name) but pretty much the only advantage vs namecoin that I see is divisibility.

Namecoin has other advantages:
* it is available and running right now
* it can be used for many other things like: wot, newscast, aliases, ...

With a wot established it could be used for a truly decentralized but automatic exchange. You could just offer your shares by setting the value field to something like: "ask:42.0nmc". A buyer can then send the money to the name and will receive the name in return. of course you have to trust the person holding the name.

I have proposed an auxiliary transaction feature (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113615.0) with ppcoin to natively facilitate distributed storage of key-value. Auxiliary transactions/blocks are deleted after expiration thus addressing the block chain bloat issue with a namecoin/bitcoin solution.

I plan to start implementing this feature in a couple of months but I would love to hear comments as to what app writers would need (such as your proposed exchange). If I got time I might consider doing a simple web-of-trust app prototype to test out the auxiliary transaction feature as well.

[markm]

this is good news indeed. So I could broadcast a half tx and whoever completes it is the partner in trade?

Suppose A wants to exchange his coins for coins B has. I think minimal version is this:

1. A publishes an offer which has information on what coins A has, what he wants to receive, A's address, A's contact info.

2. B discovers A's offer, accepts it, creates a transaction and signs his input. But this transaction doesn't have A's signature. So it is again published somewhere.

3. A discovers B's incomplete transaction, signs his input and broadcast this full transaction into coin network.

Bitcoin nodes relay only correct transactions, so you cannot use this protocol to broadcast offers and incomplete transactions.

On the bright side, it's possible to use something as simple as IRC or email to do trading. (I plan to use HTTP for this.)

Namecoins though can broadcast arbitrary data? Or only arbitrary strings?

If only strings, then any normal coding libe base64 or whatnot can be used to render data as string.

So in namecoin it should be possible to broadcast offers and partially completed transactions as well as complete transactions.

You just have to stick what you want broadcast into some field associated with some address.

It probably even has fees already implemented to discourage spamming of insincere offers.

-MarkM-

[phelix]

I like the colored coins idea (and the name) but pretty much the only advantage vs namecoin that I see is divisibility.

Namecoin has other advantages:
* it is available and running right now
* it can be used for many other things like: wot, newscast, aliases, ...

With a wot established it could be used for a truly decentralized but automatic exchange. You could just offer your shares by setting the value field to something like: "ask:42.0nmc". A buyer can then send the money to the name and will receive the name in return. of course you have to trust the person holding the name.

I have proposed an auxiliary transaction feature (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113615.0) with ppcoin to natively facilitate distributed storage of key-value. Auxiliary transactions/blocks are deleted after expiration thus addressing the block chain bloat issue with a namecoin/bitcoin solution.

I plan to start implementing this feature in a couple of months but I would love to hear comments as to what app writers would need (such as your proposed exchange). If I got time I might consider doing a simple web-of-trust app prototype to test out the auxiliary transaction feature as well.

it would be nice to be able to keep "keys" ("names") you don't own from expiring. That would make the handling of bonds and stocks a little easier.

[Sunny King]

it would be nice to be able to keep "keys" ("names") you don't own from expiring. That would make the handling of bonds and stocks a little easier.

Expiration is necessary to be able to drop old blocks and improve scalability. User/apps are expected to 'refresh' data before its expiration. For example, you can 'spend' your old output which is about to expire and create a new transaction for it.

[sron]

I'm glad to hear that so much work is being done to create an exchange system.

What I need most urgently right now is a way for me to easily create my own crypto currency producing software.

Could anyone help me with this? I offer commission, contact me for more info.

I will also try to update this thread with instructions about how to do it.

[killerstorm]

I seriously advice against helping OP. He really doesn't know much on this topic.

It is like "Hey, I have a vague idea, implement it for me and I'll give you maybe 10% of profit." (Spoiler: there won't be any profit.)

While a script which would create merged-mined alt-chains on demand would be cool, it definitely shouldn't be developed under OP's guidance.

By the way, there was a client mod which allowed creation of unlimited number of crypto-currencies: MultiCoin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24209.0

But I doubt it supported merged-mining and also it seems to be dead.

Also, um, you say "please invest today" and give your bitcoin address? How is that an investment? Where's contract? Will you pay dividends?

Investing into a can of beer has a better payoff, you know.

[markm]

It is trivial to create yet another merged-mine-able blockchain-based currency.

There are numerous capable coding-businesses in which one could invest some "quid" to obtain a new blockchain "pro quo".

It might not be as dirt cheap as getting DeVCoin created was, but then again there is no indication yet that you are going to do as much of the actual coding work yourself as Unthinkingbit, who commissioned DeVCoin (yet actually did most of the coding himself, as it turned out) did.

"Investing" in a business that so far seems singularly lacking in coding capability seems a rather obtuse method of promoting the creation of code.

-MarkM-

[sron]

It is trivial to create yet another merged-mine-able blockchain-based currency.

There are numerous capable coding-businesses in which one could invest some "quid" to obtain a new blockchain "pro quo".

It might not be as dirt cheap as getting DeVCoin created was, but then again there is no indication yet that you are going to do as much of the actual coding work yourself as Unthinkingbit, who commissioned DeVCoin (yet actually did most of the coding himself, as it turned out) did.

"Investing" in a business that so far seems singularly lacking in coding capability seems a rather obtuse method of promoting the creation of code.

-MarkM-

Yeah, yeah. Easy cheezy. But seriously, MarkM, I like one part of what you're saying, namely the part about it being "trivial to create another [...] blockchain-based currency".

I want to make it even more trivial by showing everyone in the world how to create their own crypto currency / crypto share.

If you show me how to do it, I will show the world by writing down and publishing comprehensible instructions that anyone can follow. It could be good for the crypto currency industry as well, because it would let more entrepreneurs get started rapidly with their own currencies (which they could also use as shares).

[markm]

Skip all the below and search "coloured coins" and/or "colored coins", colour some coins and you're good.

Or read on:

It is easy. Simply convince 51% or more of miners to merged-mine yet another chain.

Currently the maximum number of chains being merged mined by anyone I know of is only seven: BTC, NMC, DVC, GRP, IXC, I0C and CLC.

(I had to stop trying to add geistgeld to the merge for now as it was too resource-intensive, interfering with my machine's ability to handle the others well. More machines might fix that but will/would cost more electricity.)

So the most useful first step toward your goal would be to work on getting more miners to add more chains to their merge, since until they all see and experience as fact that merging seven at once works fine there is no point trying to add more to the list.

For people in a hurry and not too worried yet about attackers, GRP is still looking good because it is insanely low difficulty still, even CPUs can mine it, so it is basically so incredibly dirt cheap to mine it again makes little to no sense to try to add yet another to the list when this one is sitting there ripe for the taking even by people who only have CPUs.

It also serves as a weather-vane to all the many chains that are waiting in the wings, especially the ones that moved to the Open Transactions platform in order to establish transaction volume sufficient to attract miners before attempting to go public in blockchain form once again. Basically if you can succeed in getting enough miners to merged mine GRouPcoin to make it secure against attack, then entire groups of chains who are ready to come out of the closet the moment miners become open to merged mining more chains can do so. If they too can also get enough miners merged-mining them to render them too secure, then possibly we will have proven that spawning even more is reasonably do-able.

Meanwhile proving on some other platform that you have enough transaction volume to make your currency attractive to miners could also move you along toward your goal. Open Transactions is probably not the only platform you could use to get your economy up and running and thriving sufficiently that it reaches a point at which the cost of paying miners so you can reasonably move to a blockchain format is a reasonable overhead cost compared to the sheer volume of sales / transactions / activity going on in your currency's economy.

Take a look at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html to see how some of the currencies working their way up in non-blockchain form toward a point where going back to being blockchains (as they were originally and as they were designed and intended) are doing toward that goal...

-MarkM-

[sron]

I updated bitshares.tk

-Registering and logging in is now working (I think)
-Menus updated and switched, wiki page is now frontpage
-DNS settings updated

MarkM, I took the liberty of updating the wiki page with your latest post. Please let me know if you want me to remove that content, alternative you can edit it yourself if you register on the site.

[mobodick]

How to clone Bitcoin to create your own crypto currency or crypto shares system

Hi there,

Yesterday I had a vision. Nothing religious but more like a clear idea of how we can solve the crypto stock dilemma. What's the problem? Crypto stock exchanges like cryptostocks.com and GLBSE are owned privately by small centralized entities and business owners. They are vulnerable to attacks by hackers, government agencies or even lynch mobs if something goes wrong. If you ask me, GLBSE is likely to run into problems within a year. See this thread for instance [], and know just how many people hold the GLBSE owner and specific site asset creators personally responsible for their losses with regard to the Pirate ponzi. Even if the current crypto stock exchanges have nothing to do with fraudsters who create IPO's on these sites, try telling that to a lynch mob consisting of unsophisticated investors who have lost their life savings.

How can we solve this?

We could make it as easy to clone the bitcoin code and create modified digital currency/crypto shares as it is to fill out a form. Please don't be too protective about the uniqueness of bitcoin, we need as many good derivates and clones as possible, it benefits the bitcoin too.

You see, a bitcoin clone can be used as a crypto share. Let's say you create a new bitcoin clone and call it [random name]. You can then create a website where you define the contract (the type of contract that you find on GLBSE now or in the legal paperwork which constitues a real world company), namely how and if dividends will be paid out, how much influence the shareholders have etc.

If anyone wants to claim a dividend, they just send x amount of this new currency/share to your account after which you send them back the currency/share unit plus dividend (in bitcoins). By receiving the unit, you will know for certain that the account holder actually owns it. Using the bitcoin framework will also make it possible for anyone to trade their currency/share with anyone else, without having to go through a clunky third party platform with extorbant fees set by only a handful of crypto stock platform owners.

A system like this cannot be taken down by the authorities, just as little as bitcoin can be taken down. GLBSE and cryptostocks.com on the other hand could perhaps be taken down one way or another.



Why am I sharing this idea?

Because I cannot do this on my own. Clones of bitcoin already exist (devcoin, litecoin) and an exchange platform too (https://vircurex.com/). However, we need to make it as easy as possible to create a clone. Anyone should be able to do it by just defining the parameters, perhaps forking the code and releasing it under a new name.

Defining parameters before launch

When creating a new clone it should be possible to easily define:

- How many currency/share units will be produced through mining
- How long the mining will take place for

Now, if I want to create a new currency and use it as a stock, I should be able to create say only a 1000 units in a very short time and keep them all to myself. They can then be offered against bitcoins, dollars, work hours or whatnot to investors, entrepreneurs, developers or just about anyone who wishes to get involved in your company and share an interest in your project.

The aim of this thread is to create instructions for how to create your own clone of bitcoin [bitoin github link] and defining the parameters. The instructions will be uploaded to this website [insert link].

Bitcoin is already an indestructible piece of software due to its open source and peer to peer nature. Why painstakingly create crypto stock exchanges with all the risks and coding it involves, when we can use the bitcoin source code to create new currencies/shares with ease?

Let's say anyone in the world can create a bitcoin clone. They can just define the contract on their website and start their own exchange. Do you grasp the implications of this? We are talking a whole new world order.

Bitcoin is great, but it needs more good clones and derivate products, now! Let's procreate and clone the source code like rabid but earnest monkeys, let the bitcoin cell multiply into a myriad of units and create a new universal body of free commerce and a haven for investors and entrepreneurs.

Future vision for software:

A client which can be used not only to trade bitcoins but any bitcoin clone too and perhaps also  to create your own clone in five minutes. I cannot emphasize enough how useful and powerful a financial and entrepreneurial tool a client like that would be.

This thread and original post will be updated continously. Originally published on www.bitshares.tk

Your whole story is based on a false premise.
All you would achieve is a dilution of network strength.
You would divide the miners across multiple bitcoin variants and that would make it easier to attack any single bitcoin variant.
This will deter investors and entrepeneurs.

Too much 'new world order' and too little how bitcoin actually works.

[sron]

Your whole story is based on a false premise.
All you would achieve is a dilution of network strength.
You would divide the miners across multiple bitcoin variants and that would make it easier to attack any single bitcoin variant.
This will deter investors and entrepeneurs.

Too much 'new world order' and too little how bitcoin actually works.

So you say. I say let's facilitate the creation a multitude of bitcoin clones. Some of them might get hacked and attacked, some of them might survive.

Through the process we will develop new technologies for protecting fledgling crypto currencies from attacks.

If there's really no point of cloning crypto currencies, how come there are already a dozen or so of them out there? Many skilled developers are working on those projects.