The Karpeles arrest and bitcoin's social stigma.

[ElectricMucus]

It is possible that the Karpeles arrest will make Bitcoins image problem even worse.
We already know that in one case offering BTC a payment option had a negative impact on revenue. Whollyhemp did a study and published the results. The resulting virtual lynchmob on reddit was fun to watch.
Enough digression.

Two new things we learned from the proceedings are
-) Karpeles had a single Bank account for customer deposits, day to day operations and even some personal spending ( He bought a car)
-) Mtgox payed out withdraws from other customer deposits.

Roger Ver still is regarded as an honorable person by the core Bitcoin community. A convicted felon who later got a pseudo-citizenship to evade taxes, calls himself Bitcoin Jesus, kept explosives in an apartment, to be shipped via postal service, a failed politician for the Libertarian party. And ultimately, based on what we know now a confidence trickster who used his popularity to lure other people into a false sense of security just at the right moment.

It doesn't end here. The vast majority of this community consists at best of Libertarian Conservatives, realistically Anarcho Captialists and at the worst Objectivists. Independently of how you feel about these ideologies (hint - they're flawed) the vast majority of people won't react kindly if they are called statists.

People outside of the Bitcoin community aren't gonna judge this as separated incidents. They will look at all the crooks, scams and nutjobs and associate it with every case of massive financial losses and every case where a prominent figure gets prosecuted because they have no regards for the laws that govern the society we all live in.

[klee]

We are in a bull market - bad news are ignored...

[megadeth]

Honey badger doesn't care about cult of personality.

[zoinky]

I don't think any revelations about Mt Gox will really shock anyone to the point where it influences their investment decisions.  Everyone expected the worst.

[ElectricMucus]

We are in a bull market - bad news are ignored...

Honey badger doesn't care about cult of personality.

I don't think any revelations about Mt Gox will really shock anyone to the point where it influences their investment decisions.  Everyone expected the worst.

I'm not posting about existing Bitcoiners, who obviously do not care as much about social stigma, or in some cases may even endorse it because it is stigmatized. But other people do.
And don't kid yourself. Everybody cares about social stigma it's just some care less.

The effect is cumulative. The more stigmatized Bitcoin becomes the less people want to deal with it.
If Bitcoin is already so stigmatized that people who are into buying hemp soap won't want to have it's bad. 

[phoenix1]

Hence why major financial institutions are using the term 'blockchain'. Some have the objective of creating competing chains (which may or may not succeed), others are trying to do a rebranding job by distancing themselves from the name 'Bitcoin', which takes time, but with large amounts of capital and big names behind is likely to be successful in the long run.

Yeh, in time BTC can leave its sordid past behind it, but I am not convinced that that time is here yet. And I agree, Karpeles in the news is not likely to help with  'social stigma' in the short term with new entrants. Agreed, we already know this shit, but to Joe Public, it is a bad read, but if he is nailed to the wall, the medium term outlook improves ...

We may still have to revisit whatever is imagined as 'No Willy Bot' prices (whatever they are) to establish a 'true' base but that remains to be seen. I am undecided on that. But I think in the long run, as much as possible of the Mt Gox story being made public and flushed down the tube is a good thing. We can then leave it all behind ...

Shorter term I think we are going up regardless. Remains to be seen if it can hold though over the coming months

[Greendragon]

Am I the only one thinking that this is good news?
If you fuck with bitcoin you go to jail.

[eerygarden]

Is this even news to people yet unfamiliar with bitcoin? Will this news even enter their world? I think not.

[kwukduck]

The problem is this is an international case.
During the process the big problem bit coin poses for the real system becomes clear to people that matter in this world. Following that I think it's likely we are looking at a global ban within two years.

[TPTB_need_war]

People who are fooled by the illusion of law & order, aren't going to be buying crypto-currency for disruptive reasoning any way, rather only because they are jealous of gains others made.

And those who are buying crypto for disruptive reasoning, aren't concerned about the free market process because that is what they want.

Your thesis is fundamentally irrelevant.

You are just another worry wort control freak like your philosophical cohort Gregory Maxwell.

Pleeaaase don't try to assert that Bitcoin is going to replace legal tender in the minds of your cohort. Delusion is all you know.

[mrhelpful]

despite the old history stigma, its overlooked and people will continue to move forward.

its good to see that guys face and his t-shirt "rekt" while wearing his black hat. he probably felt so shitty inside and asked himself a thousand times whats the point of being rich or trying to be one if I have no friendssss.

[neurotypical]

There are enough libertarians out there to drive Bitcoin to the moon, if that's a problem.
Anyway, I don't think it's a problem in terms of mainstream adoption. All new technologies have been used to do bad things at the early days, it will not surpass the positives.

[techgeek]

There are enough libertarians out there to drive Bitcoin to the moon, if that's a problem.
Anyway, I don't think it's a problem in terms of mainstream adoption. All new technologies have been used to do bad things at the early days, it will not surpass the positives.

I agree on some points esp base on the user either they do it for good or bad.

But the thing with bad news, it spreads like wild fire and the good points are not seen anymore based on fear, cause I just asked what my friend thinks about bitcoin. And all his was response was oh yeah that scam thing. Lack of understanding he explained he read something on about silkroad years back, and that itself made him re-think.

Its sad, but theres many cases like this.. I just told my friend to re-think about it.

Hopefully he sees this gox story as a positive sign?

[criptix]

It is still going up

We are in a bull market - bad news are ignored...

I think this post won

[TPTB_need_war]

Its sad, but theres many cases like this..

Why is it sad that your friend is an idiot?

It just is. Accept it.

Of course that you didn't realize that makes you an idiot too, so it all makes sense. It just is. I accept it.

[Cconvert2G36]

I think the deflationary distribution baked into the bitcoin protocol is political. That's the interesting part.

Thinking that joe blow public gives any care to Roger Ver, MtGox implosion, or even bitcoin itself is somewhat silly. It bubbled and died in late 2013 in their minds. The CEO committed suicide and a guy wearing a magical tux haxored all the coins.

If bitcoin does penetrate the mainstream, it will be on the backend. Living behind the splashy javascript curtain, the rails. Until then, it is the domain of idealists, traders, scammers, black/grey markets, capital control evasion, and the tech horny. (Not a horrible thing btw, but possibly problematic for posters bleating "$10k coins next year!")

I'm waiting for the altcoin with an exponentially increasing rate of emission, maybe call it Krugcoin? Surely the proletariat will flock like moths to a flame to build and support it.

[luciann]

The social stigma is like lasted for 1 entire day for me.

And then I moved on reading to other great news on coindesk and then just read more threads about his whole arrest situation being late.

[inca]

Hence why major financial institutions are using the term 'blockchain'. Some have the objective of creating competing chains (which may or may not succeed), others are trying to do a rebranding job by distancing themselves from the name 'Bitcoin', which takes time, but with large amounts of capital and big names behind is likely to be successful in the long run.

Yeh, in time BTC can leave its sordid past behind it, but I am not convinced that that time is here yet. And I agree, Karpeles in the news is not likely to help with  'social stigma' in the short term with new entrants. Agreed, we already know this shit, but to Joe Public, it is a bad read, but if he is nailed to the wall, the medium term outlook improves ...

We may still have to revisit whatever is imagined as 'No Willy Bot' prices (whatever they are) to establish a 'true' base but that remains to be seen. I am undecided on that. But I think in the long run, as much as possible of the Mt Gox story being made public and flushed down the tube is a good thing. We can then leave it all behind ...

Shorter term I think we are going up regardless. Remains to be seen if it can hold though over the coming months

The market sets the price. Mt Gox closed over a year ago.

Try as perma bears like OP will, they are running out of bad news to smear bitcoin with. Just the final USMS auction and the Gox payout now.

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

The veil is being lifted. It comes to light that most people who revolve around bitcoin, aren't idealistic do-gooders, but instead greedy pigs without ethics. The wannabe "new elites" who have no interest in revolutionizing finance, by making monetary services cheaper and removing the unnecessary leeches from the system. They only wish to become the new leeches who earn a lot without doing any work for it.
The main thing that will be effected by these news is merchant adoption. The main reason why merchants adopted bitcoin payment, was to get some positive free press. Bitcoin payment option doesn't have any practical advantages, so, publicity and getting new customers among bitcoin enthusiasts were the only reasons.

With that said, it's an illusion that bitcoin price is tied to merchant adoption. So, this negative publicity will have just as little effect as positive publicity about new merchants using bitcoin payment. The price will be calculated by a group of people who own enough BTC and $, to make the price move to any direction they wish. This group includes the same people who operate the most popular exchanges, and therefore have access to information that is crucial when calculating the right moves. The bitcoin market is like a casino, where the winning odds are precisely calculated by the house and all the bright lights etc. are only meant to distract the players from the cold calculated odds that aren't in their favor. Positive or negative news like these are the distractions of "the bitcoin casino".

[Natalia_AnatolioPAMM]

The social stigma is like lasted for 1 entire day for me.

And then I moved on reading to other great news on coindesk and then just read more threads about his whole arrest situation being late.

same with me. there's even no point in staying too much on that