Should we kick more people off welfare?

[tommorisonwebdesign]

First of all before I begin this post I would like to explain my financial situation. I live in a social assistance building in downtown Vancouver and I collect $541 from the provincial government after paying rent. I filed my taxes and I get a $100 GST cheque from the government every two months. I am currently saving up money to service my Windows laptop and get my projects off that laptop.

A lot of people who live in my building spend their disability cheques on drugs and alcohol. The residents get quite irritable and angry when free lunches are canceled. They push themselves ahead in line when asking for meds, and do a poor job keeping the building secure. Drug dealers roam the building selling drugs to residents because the dealers friend who lives here buzzed them in.

I just think that it's public money not being sufficiently spent. I am one of only 5 people on welfare who work in my building or have any kind of job skills whatsoever. That being said, bitcoin is not hardcore computer science, they could at least buy a cheap netbook and earn from Bitcoinget and other sites to go buy themselves lunch. I suppose begging other people to feed them just sounds easier than planning and working.

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[Beliathon]

Only if we start from the top. Money making money is a concept that must die.

[Damiantroll]

It's easy to say yes to that, but the management needed to decide who really needs it and who is just faking (spending it on drugs) would be ginormous and even then it would not be fool proof.

So yes, but things would have to be different.

[peligro]

Only if we start from the top. Money making money is a concept that must die.

It will never die and it can't die at all. You think about giving money to others and getting back more. Stop doing that and no one will lend his money anymore. Big disadvantage for the economy.

On top... when it would be disallowed to take interest then you simply get employees that work for you and you have the same result.

By the way... in some religions it's disallowed. They still found ways to circumvent it.

[saddampbuh]

what proportion of your country's welfare bill goes to these types of people? in the uk half goes to pensioners and a quarter goes to people who have jobs. it pisses me off too seeing money going to these layabout cockroaches but dealing with them alone isn't going to lead to significant savings.

[RustyNomad]

I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means.

I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I traveled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer.

And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.

Benjamin Franklin, On the Price of Corn and Management of the Poor, November 1766

A very difficult call to make as there are many instances where people have to be looked after, either through providing care and or through providing some form of welfare. The system is however so open for abuse and I think this is a major headache in most countries.

[bryant.coleman]

Long-term welfare payments should be limited to the disabled and the elderly. Able-bodied adults under the age of 60 should be banned from receiving welfare checks for more than 3 months continuously. Canada is facing a severe shortage of manpower in some sectors (esp. masons, woodcutters.etc). The government should give them job training and compel them to join the workforce.

[pungopete468]

Long-term welfare payments should be limited to the disabled and the elderly. Able-bodied adults under the age of 60 should be banned from receiving welfare checks for more than 3 months continuously. Canada is facing a severe shortage of manpower in some sectors (esp. masons, woodcutters.etc). The government should give them job training and compel them to join the workforce.

That's easy to say in an adequately performing economy. The reality is though, not everybody can do well as a mason, or a woodcutter, and some are specialized in certain areas where they are heavily invested in the training they already received for a skill which was valuable a few years ago, which is no longer valuable today.

Just because there is a current shortage of masons and woodcutters doesn't imply that there will be in the next few years, and how much would it cost to train these people, just to have them unemployed again when a different sector of the economy performs less-than satisfactorily in the future?

I personally think there should be less of a barrier to entry for the independent and small business person who wishes to contract for themselves...

[tommorisonwebdesign]

what proportion of your country's welfare bill goes to these types of people? in the uk half goes to pensioners and a quarter goes to people who have jobs. it pisses me off too seeing money going to these layabout cockroaches but dealing with them alone isn't going to lead to significant savings.

I would say about half of the pensioners work. In the building I live in though nobody works. They just do drugs and borrow money from others.

[UliJonHoth]

Here where I live in Texas it has become a source of great income for some, you'll hear talk of people aspiring to "get a crazy check" meaning disability which then gives them a monthly check, free healthcare, and food stamps. After receiving disability, the person is then able to visit one of the many shady psychiatrists operating here providing this service as it has become big business - the "patient" will receive suboxone (@ 90) which they can sell for up to $20 apiece, adderall (@60-90) which will go for @ $10 apiece, and valium or xanax (@ 30-60) - the prescriptions are free to fill with Medicaid/Medicare so that alone is an extra $2500 (or about that amount) combined with their monthly government check. Commercials run constantly on television here for disability lawyers as it has become a big business, it is amazing how people have manipulated the system and are profiting from it yet some in actual need suffer.

[bryant.coleman]

I would say about half of the pensioners work. In the building I live in though nobody works. They just do drugs and borrow money from others.

It is a shame if a 75-year old pensioner is working, as he can't cover his daily expenses from his pension alone, and at the same time a 25-year old is sitting at home and experimenting with drugs as he has nothing else to do. If the government can't give these guys job training, then it should be made mandatory for them to do some sort of community service or volunteering.

[Tartaravatar]

the resident must be thinking more about drugs or alcohol.
thinking from where they get money.
necessary more important than drugs or alcohol. this will make country loses.
they money can to buy something to eat, and necessary like daily to take a bath, or education.
not use to not important things.
can distinguish what is important and not important.

[PaoloSerBit]

Any kind of welfare seldom works as it should. I think the concept of healing it is wrong by itself. That´s obvious that nowadays the state has to keep
it´s subjects from rebelling somehow. Because of that the situation of masses of people begging and dying in the street isn´t acceptable socially(the fist goverment retirement program in Germany ruled by Bismarck had that objective). But let´s be honest with each other - there will always be people who´re going to want to parasite on the society without any reason to justify it. There´s nothing that could be done.

[statdude]

Here where I live in Texas it has become a source of great income for some, you'll hear talk of people aspiring to "get a crazy check" meaning disability which then gives them a monthly check, free healthcare, and food stamps. After receiving disability, the person is then able to visit one of the many shady psychiatrists operating here providing this service as it has become big business - the "patient" will receive suboxone (@ 90) which they can sell for up to $20 apiece, adderall (@60-90) which will go for @ $10 apiece, and valium or xanax (@ 30-60) - the prescriptions are free to fill with Medicaid/Medicare so that alone is an extra $2500 (or about that amount) combined with their monthly government check. Commercials run constantly on television here for disability lawyers as it has become a big business, it is amazing how people have manipulated the system and are profiting from it yet some in actual need suffer.

Wow this blows my mind but i believe it... i know a lot of ppl on govt disability in US that shouldnt be

[Kolla]

In the Netherlands one gets around $ 1000 welfare if you are single and $ 1500 welfare if you have kids. As a plus you get around $ 90 for healthcare and a large chunk of your rent paid by the state. That does not mean one can sit on his or hers lazy arse. You have to proof that you look for a job and you have to do something back like cleaning the streets or help out at a school or retirement home.

[Possum577]

There's a lot of research that shows that people on welfare will not look for or engage in work if the pay for that work doesn't exceed the welfare. We need to match the two...welfare should be paired back to not provide more than minimum wages or minimum wages should increase. The problem with minimum wages increasing is that it motivates prices (and the cost of living) to increase as well.

If welfare isn't linked specifically to the objective of getting people that can work back to work, it will never be successful.

Of course disabilities and addictions need to be handled differently but there should be much more surveillance over the appropriate use of government money...some rights should go away when one welfare.

In the Netherlands one gets around $ 1000 welfare if you are single and $ 1500 welfare if you have kids. As a plus you get around $ 90 for healthcare and a large chunk of your rent paid by the state. That does not mean one can sit on his or hers lazy arse. You have to proof that you look for a job and you have to do something back like cleaning the streets or help out at a school or retirement home.

In NED, what are the income qualifications or unemployment qualifications to receive the welfare? I'm curious where the country sets that bar.

[bryant.coleman]

That does not mean one can sit on his or hers lazy arse. You have to proof that you look for a job and you have to do something back like cleaning the streets or help out at a school or retirement home.

This is exactly what should be done in countries such as Canada and the United States. But what happening there is that people collect all the welfare checks, and stay at home or drug joints to experiment with various synthetic drugs and prescription pills. If they are forced to do community service, then they will spend less time in using drugs.

[Kolla]

In the Netherlands one gets around $ 1000 welfare if you are single and $ 1500 welfare if you have kids. As a plus you get around $ 90 for healthcare and a large chunk of your rent paid by the state. That does not mean one can sit on his or hers lazy arse. You have to proof that you look for a job and you have to do something back like cleaning the streets or help out at a school or retirement home.

In NED, what are the income qualifications or unemployment qualifications to receive the welfare? I'm curious where the country sets that bar.
[/quote]

Should you loose your job, you are liable to get 75% of your last pay from the state from a periode of 3 months to 2 years. Should you not have a job afterwards you get wellfare providing you have less than 5k on your bank, are willing to sell your house and proof that you are looking for a job. If you are under 27 than you are sent to school if you have no qualifications. Wellfare is organized by the state and by the towncouncil. Even beggars can get wellfare if they have a PO box.

[countryfree]

Kicking people off welfare isn't enough. All welfare programs should be terminated. They were invented by Bismarck and later promoted by Mussolini. Both fascists looking for supporters. Welfare programs are the greatest inequalities in the world. Nigerians or Ethiopians do not have access to any kind of welfare, and yet they manage to survive. Better than that, their population is growing fast. Sorry to point it out but this proves that the average African is much smarter than the average first world guy on welfare.

Welfare programs are also a strong reason for Africans to immigrate to rich countries, which close their borders very precisely not to let foreigners gain access to welfare. Welfare and borders are the same thing: restrictions to freedom.

[bryant.coleman]

Welfare programs are also a strong reason for Africans to immigrate to rich countries, which close their borders very precisely not to let foreigners gain access to welfare. Welfare and borders are the same thing: restrictions to freedom.

Welfare payments are the primary reason for people from the third world nations to immigrate to Western countries. For example, take the case of Afghan migrants. The richest country in the world (Qatar) is nearer to Afghanistan when compered to the European nations. Qatar is also culturally similar to Afghanistan. But still, Afghan migrants prefer Europe. The reason - welfare payments.