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Author Topic: Bitcoin is beggining to get "bad" publicity...  (Read 8520 times)
Anonymous
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June 03, 2011, 01:36:41 AM
 #1

Progressives are raving on Twitter about how Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme founded upon faux-libertarian economics. Apparently the UK Serious Fraud office is looking into Bitcoin. A German lobbying group wants none of it. It keeps only getting better and better. How are things going to pan out. If you were a power-hungry government seeing Bitcoin as a threat, what would you first do to see to its destruction? Make it taboo in the eyes of citizens (a threat to freedom, etc.)? ...or raid households that seem to be running a Bitcoin node?

I have a feeling in my gut that things are about to get really exciting.
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June 03, 2011, 01:47:08 AM
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I would try to make it look like the public at large is against Bitcoin by using sockpuppets on social networks. I might hire some people to dig up dirt on early adopters to make them look like scammers. I think that I'd avoid speaking out against them officially except as a last resort.

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June 03, 2011, 01:51:19 AM
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Progressives are raving on Twitter about how Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme founded upon faux-libertarian economics. Apparently the UK Serious Fraud office is looking into Bitcoin. A German lobbying group wants none of it. It keeps only getting better and better. How are things going to pan out. If you were a power-hungry government seeing Bitcoin as a threat, what would you first do to see to its destruction? Make it taboo in the eyes of citizens (a threat to freedom, etc.)? ...or raid households that seem to be running a Bitcoin node?

I have a feeling in my gut that things are about to get really exciting.

They are complete fools. The more they Tweet about the Forbidden Fruit, the more it will consumed. Everyone knows bad publicity is still publicity. I think it's hilarious that they are so up in arms over a currency that has a market cap that is less than $100 million. Far more is laundered and exchanged for illicit goods with U.S. dollars and other currencies.
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June 03, 2011, 01:52:45 AM
 #4

I don't think demonizing bitcoin will work. Hatred toward governments, banks and inequality is so great, and people are so dumb and desperate, that even if bitcoin was a ponzi scheme, majority would jump on the bandwagon just to prove they can rebel

If I was entity with interest in closing bitcoin, I would close the exchanges. Bitcoin doesn't have the critical mass to be effective value exchange between individuals
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June 03, 2011, 02:01:41 AM
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I have concerns about the bitcoin client using IRC. As you may know, all it takes is a simple packet sniff or perhaps a viewing of the source to see where the clients are connecting to. IRC exposes your IP address in normal use. It would only take someone to attach to these channels and ping/info all participants to build a list of nodes in use.

There are ways to move away from this bootstrap scheme, but currently it is a large information hole that will no doubt surprise some Silk Road users. I know that an IP is not some kind of absolute geographical locator, but you can get pretty close, especially if the user has no control over how that connection is made from the bitcoin client.

I support bitcoin, just wanted to point out something that could be used against people. I am sure the devs are aware of this issue and have considered alternatives.

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June 03, 2011, 02:06:00 AM
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I have concerns about the bitcoin client using IRC. As you may know, all it takes is a simple packet sniff or perhaps a viewing of the source to see where the clients are connecting to. IRC exposes your IP address in normal use. It would only take someone to attach to these channels and ping/info all participants to build a list of nodes in use.

There are ways to move away from this bootstrap scheme, but currently it is a large information hole that will no doubt surprise some Silk Road users. I know that an IP is not some kind of absolute geographical locator, but you can get pretty close, especially if the user has no control over how that connection is made from the bitcoin client.

I support bitcoin, just wanted to point out something that could be used against people. I am sure the devs are aware of this issue and have considered alternatives.


And how, in your genius mind, it is going to surprize Silk Road users if they are all on tor?
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June 03, 2011, 02:10:17 AM
 #7

Gavin's Public Relations thread is worth reviewing.
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June 03, 2011, 02:23:56 AM
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And how, in your genius mind, it is going to surprize Silk Road users if they are all on tor?

I am puzzled why you would state it in that way, I have not stated I am a genius nor ever expect to be. Of course, you could be sarcastically implying that having your public IP displayed in an IRC channel is not an issue. If bitcoin is supposed to at least support some kind of psuedo anonymity via public keys, why add icing on the cake with an actual IP address?

Even Tor advises you to be careful, as network analysis of patterns of communication can be used against you, not to mention hostile exit or entry nodes that only exist to log your behavior. But I am sure you were considering that before you replied.

Do not get snarky with me, I do not appreciate it.

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June 03, 2011, 02:30:18 AM
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And how, in your genius mind, it is going to surprize Silk Road users if they are all on tor?

I am puzzled why you would state it in that way, I have not stated I am a genius nor ever expect to be. Of course, you could be sarcastically implying that having your public IP displayed in an IRC channel is not an issue. If bitcoin is supposed to at least support some kind of psuedo anonymity via public keys, why add icing on the cake with an actual IP address?

Even Tor advises you to be careful, as network analysis of patterns of communication can be used against you, not to mention hostile exit or entry nodes that only exist to log your behavior. But I am sure you were considering that before you replied.

Do not get snarky with me, I do not appreciate it.


I'm just wondering, do realize that once on tor, bitcoin uses alternative peer discovery methods and there's not IRC? If not, maybe you should withhold your comments about Silk Road users being surprized until you learn a little bit about how bitcoin works?
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June 03, 2011, 02:36:53 AM
 #10

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I'm just wondering, do realize that once on tor, bitcoin uses alternative peer discovery methods and there's not IRC? If not, maybe you should withhold your comments about Silk Road users being surprized until you learn a little bit about how bitcoin works?

Then explain why, in a local capture session using Wireshark, I see IRC connections coming from my local bitcoin client? If this has been addressed in the latest public beta, that is something else.

I just don't get why the attitude has to be so abrasive. I like bitcoin, you like it. Hell, I like your avatar. What is it exactly that provokes these displays of harshness where there is no need? I wasn't trying to offend you personally.


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June 03, 2011, 02:44:55 AM
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I have concerns about the bitcoin client using IRC. As you may know, all it takes is a simple packet sniff or perhaps a viewing of the source to see where the clients are connecting to. IRC exposes your IP address in normal use. It would only take someone to attach to these channels and ping/info all participants to build a list of nodes in use.

There are ways to move away from this bootstrap scheme, but currently it is a large information hole that will no doubt surprise some Silk Road users. I know that an IP is not some kind of absolute geographical locator, but you can get pretty close, especially if the user has no control over how that connection is made from the bitcoin client.

I support bitcoin, just wanted to point out something that could be used against people. I am sure the devs are aware of this issue and have considered alternatives.

You realize that your IP is broadcast to the entire Bitcoin network regardless of IRC, right?

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June 03, 2011, 02:51:10 AM
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You realize that your IP is broadcast to the entire Bitcoin network regardless of IRC, right?

Yes, there is that too - and when (not if) ISPs are directed by governments to filter port 8333 and the like, that will have to be addressed too. I only started with IRC because it may not be obvious to people that is the way the client communicates.

My only intent is to see everything migrate to other methods that make it harder, not easier, to identify instances of the bitcoin client running on a potentially hostile network.

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June 03, 2011, 02:53:16 AM
 #13

Progressives are raving on Twitter about how Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme founded upon faux-libertarian economics.

Do you have anything to show that it is progressives in general, or just individuals who happen (or you believe) to be progressives?

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June 03, 2011, 02:55:37 AM
 #14

If I was a government and wanted to kill Bitcoin, I would fork it.
* Mining difficulty is fixed at 1, but only blocks signed by the government grant coins.
* Government mining with geographically distributed servers to protect against disasters.
* Grant a tax credit if those taxes are paid with the new coins.
* Peg its value to the existing national currency, and offer a simple API to convert back and fourth for existing banks and credit card companies.

Benefits:
* The same convenience benefits of Bitcoin
* Inertia of the existing currency and infrastructure
* A big trustworthy government telling you "it's gonna be OK".
* Association with a powerful people's government, instead of a cabal of selfish libertarian crazies.
* Ability to raise taxes with inflation
* Ability to shut down evil nodes and revoke their coins
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June 03, 2011, 02:56:04 AM
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You realize that your IP is broadcast to the entire Bitcoin network regardless of IRC, right?

Yes, there is that too - and when (not if) ISPs are directed by governments to filter port 8333 and the like, that will have to be addressed too. I only started with IRC because it may not be obvious to people that is the way the client communicates.

My only intent is to see everything migrate to other methods that make it harder, not easier, to identify instances of the bitcoin client running on a potentially hostile network.

It is not the only way and certainly it is not the way it communicates on tor. In fact, you can run your client with noirc=1 in bitcoin.conf and still have fully functioning client.

So my question to you is how Silk Road users are going to be surprized?
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June 03, 2011, 02:59:25 AM
 #16

Any publicity= good publicity

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June 03, 2011, 03:06:50 AM
 #17

Ill use 2.5 men as an example; I never even considered watching it until after Charlie Sheen was "exposed by the media"

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June 03, 2011, 03:07:55 AM
 #18

Apparently the UK Serious Fraud office is looking into Bitcoin.
They are going to have Serious Difficulty to build a fraud case against a 100% voluntary, fully disclosed, over-discussed open source project without themselves being viewed as idiots.
I doubt they have the intelligence to really grasp how bitcoin works.
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June 03, 2011, 03:15:28 AM
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It is not the only way and certainly it is not the way it communicates on tor. In fact, you can run your client with noirc=1 in bitcoin.conf and still have fully functioning client.

So my question to you is how Silk Road users are going to be surprized?

Ah, I see. It is going to be like that, eh?

Okay, I can play ball.

Hostile Exit Nodes  http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=677943

Not Anonymous http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/04/not-anonymous-attack-reveals-bittorrent-users-on-tor-network.ars

Online Idiocy Kills http://beyondclicktivism.com/2011/02/14/online-idiocy-kills/

Among other examples. Executive summary is that Tor isn't perfect, so there are things to worry about in hostile environments.


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June 03, 2011, 03:16:34 AM
 #20

I hope they make us look like pigf*cking sodomite necrophiliac pedophile terrorist racist drug-dealing money-laundering gun-running slave-trading kiddy-porn puppy-stomping paint huffers. I need the price to stay down until I finish buying.  Nothing anybody does will kill Bitcoin. Nothing will stop it except nuclear war or a giant asteroid.  Satoshi Nakamoto himself couldn't stop it now. Critical mass has been reached. There is no going back. Cryptocurrency will be money for our great grandchildren. Austrian economics will be called...economics.

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