Give me a logical reason why Vanilla coin is not a top ten coin?

[kelsey]

if it is any good (which i doubt), its hidden in amongst 1001 shitcoins so few would find it anyways. tbh the name is so lame most would pass it over.

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[TPTB_need_war]

Afaics his abstract paper does not deal with some of the intricacies of the economics that have to be solved in order to make the design actually work in the real world.

You see that often in unseasoned theorists.

Someone asked me in a PM for my opinion of VanillaCoin. I just expended 15 minutes studying it for the first time:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=977245.0

The DarkPP stuff is vaporware and no details are available.

It claims some efficiency improvements over Bitcoin and Peercoin. Appears the developer is a seasoned P2P networking programmer. If I had to venture a guess, he probably was a former developer of a Bittorrent client.

The main feature of significance is the zero confirmation time research which attempts to gain a faster consensus. Unfortunately he seems to entirely forget any game theory analysis. The Byzantine fault tolerance in proof-of-work consensus is due to game theory incentives given by the proof-of-work rewards. He expects these peers to behave a certain optimum way when they are not being paid to do so. Many faults will be found in his design because of this. I don't have time to go outline the faults.

Satoshi was a lot more astute than many people might realize. If you are going to improve upon Satoshi's work, you need to be very sharp.

[kelsey]

Afaics his abstract paper does not deal with some of the intricacies of the economics that have to be solved in order to make the design actually work in the real world.

You see that often in unseasoned theorists.

Someone asked me in a PM for my opinion of VanillaCoin. I just expended 15 minutes studying it for the first time:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=977245.0

The DarkPP stuff is vaporware and no details are available.

It claims some efficiency improvements over Bitcoin and Peercoin. Appears the developer is a seasoned P2P networking programmer. If I had to venture a guess, he probably was a former developer of a Bittorrent client.

The main feature of significance is the zero confirmation time research which attempts to gain a faster consensus. Unfortunately he seems to entirely forget any game theory analysis. The Byzantine fault tolerance in proof-of-work consensus is due to game theory incentives given by the proof-of-work rewards. He expects these peers to behave a certain optimum way when they are not being paid to do so. Many faults will be found in his design because of this. I don't have time to go outline the faults.

Satoshi was a lot more astute than many people might realize. If you are going to improve upon Satoshi's work, you need to be very sharp.

satoshi also assumed price will consistently remain above cost of production, which once a its listed on traded markets will not always be the case (admittedly something satoshi did add is a passing disclaimer), if such occured for an extended period guess what; "He expects these peers to behave a certain optimum way when they are not being paid to do so"  

[Nxtblg]

Secondly, most of the crypto community has written off most alts and/or holding their bags of their favorite coin.

I'm in the latter category. To be honest, I fell into my rut because it's way too time-consuming to do even rudimentary due diligence on the different streams in the altcoin river. In a rushing-river environment, it makes practical sense to stick with the few coins you know and like.

Moving into a nice streambed rut also dovetails well with the gains from specialization.

[statdude]

To those wondering if double spend is possible, a bounty is available. Could probably be paid in BTC if preferred.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148745.0

[worldinacoin]

Is the OP involved in Vanilla coin in anyway?

[btccashacc]

vanilla is good
the big 5 at poloniex

[TPTB_need_war]

To those wondering if double spend is possible, a bounty is available. Could probably be paid in BTC if preferred.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148745.0

My reply there, please go there for further discussion and their rebuttal:

How much is the bounty?

Will it pay out if I just tell you how it can be done?

It is pretty simple actually. Bribe some nodes by sharing some of the double-spend theft.

There is created an incentive to aggregate mining power in order to sell capacity to double-spend. It is an economics issue. Just because it can't be accomplished on the controlled testnet is irrelevant.

[nextgencoin]

Is the OP involved in Vanilla coin in anyway?

I stated my position in the OP, can't you read?

[nextgencoin]

I'm thinking about investing in it, I bought a little but wondering on more.


My hypothesis is simple, it sends and confirms under a second, is decentralised and is anonomous. In the end that really what people want, ie send money instantly with no double spend, who wants to wait a few minutes to buy something?


Right or wrong?

Pretty simple: lack of real demand. There are plenty of established coins with the same or similar features, and with lot more marketing. BTW functionality sometimes means nothing. Take a look at Qora or NXT and then take an other look at the big bunch of copy-paste-no invention shitcoins with far better exchange rates.

Name them?

As far as I know Dash is slower but more importantly isn't fully centralised. Give me one coin that moves coins with confirmations quicker and is anonymous and then your point is sound.


Bear in mind this isn't a feature thing where new coded coins say oh we can do comic trilateral node configurations with an inbuilt game and selfie function. The simple fact is people need to send money instantly, safely and anonymously.....this coin as far as I can see can't be bet in that, right? So the natural progression is to use the fastest that works right? I mean who wants to use 3G when there is 5G?


I have too much respect for Bitcoin and its creator to suggest it could take over Bitcoin but think like this, once masses find out about crypto will they want to send money in a second or a few minutes or even more? A few minutes to buy a latte in starbucks will get old pretty soon. lol Vanilla coin could become the little brother of Bitcoin, for fast payments while Bitcoin is the older more established brother for slow moving funds.

[TPTB_need_war]

Instant sending needs to be done. I think I know how to do it. I don't think VanillaCoin's method is sound per my post in the other thread. Let's see what John Conner has to say about it.

As I wrote before, the DarkPP is apparently vaporware. Afaics, nothing has been revealed about anonymity. I've (as AnonyMint) have been working on anonymity for 2 years. I doubt very much he has the innovations on anonymity that I have.

[nextgencoin]

Instant sending needs to be done. I think I know how to do it. I don't think VanillaCoin's method is sound per my post in the other thread. Let's see what John Conner has to say about it.

As I wrote before, the DarkPP is apparently vaporware. Afaics, nothing has been revealed about anonymity. I've (as AnonyMint) have been working on anonymity for 2 years. I doubt very much he has the innovations on anonymity that I have.

Thats purely speculation until John has answered.

[generalizethis]

Instant sending needs to be done. I think I know how to do it. I don't think VanillaCoin's method is sound per my post in the other thread. Let's see what John Conner has to say about it.

As I wrote before, the DarkPP is apparently vaporware. Afaics, nothing has been revealed about anonymity. I've (as AnonyMint) have been working on anonymity for 2 years. I doubt very much he has the innovations on anonymity that I have.

Thats purely speculation until John has answered.

Believing the anonymity is sound is pure speculation until John has answered. Glass half full? Half empty? Hard to tell when it's in a vault, yes?

[TPTB_need_war]

I believe he is referring to my post about the zerotime algorithm being unsound. I'd rather argue that the argument that the algorithm could work is speculation. The argument against it being sound appears to be much more based in research and prior art analysis. But yes, let's wait for him to respond. Maybe I've totally overlooked something. But I strongly doubt it. I am reasonably expert in this field.

Edit: why i am doing this? Because someone asked me in a PM for my opinion. And also because I don't want to see people throwing more good money down rat holes. Shitcoin shit needs to be called out.

[bl234st]

I believe he is referring to my post about the zerotime algorithm being unsound. I'd rather argue that the argument that the algorithm could work is speculation. The argument against it being sound appears to be much more based in research and prior art analysis. But yes, let's wait for him to respond. Maybe I've totally overlooked something. But I strongly doubt it. I am reasonably expert in this field.

Edit: why i am doing this? Because someone asked me in a PM for my opinion. And also because I don't want to see people throwing more good money down rat holes. Shitcoin shit needs to be called out.

Thank you for your contribution! Your presence is always welcomed. Always been a fan of your insight and skills.

[TPTB_need_war]

Thank you for your contribution! Your presence is always welcomed. Always been a fan of your insight and skills.

I'll readily admit I am wrong if John Conner is able to show some details and convincing proof against Sybil attacks on the global lock consensus.

[john-connor]

Thank you for your contribution! Your presence is always welcomed. Always been a fan of your insight and skills.

I'll readily admit I am wrong if John Conner is able to show some details and convincing proof against Sybil attacks on the global lock consensus.

It's your duty to prove it not mine. There is a large bounty on the public test network to produce and re-produce a double-spend scenario so if you can perform a Sybil Attack then you should be able to collect the reward. If you CANNOT DO IT then I will gladly accept your apology. I'm 100% confident you cannot do it. That said I won't be checking this thread again.

https://talk.vanillacoin.net/topic/190/zerotime-double-spend-bounty

Thank you for your support.

[claycoins]

Because like most coins it has no use except to exchange with btc.

[TPTB_need_war]

Thank you for your contribution! Your presence is always welcomed. Always been a fan of your insight and skills.

I'll readily admit I am wrong if John Conner is able to show some details and convincing proof against Sybil attacks on the global lock consensus.

It's your duty to prove it not mine.

Bullshit.

I am calling scam on this coin now:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148745.msg12111401#msg12111401

Inability to prove something on a controlled testnet is not the same as sustaining Byzantine tolerance on the open internet. Besides, no one has time to go diving into your code to prove that. $2100 bounty can't buy more than a couple of days of my time. And I can't even be sure you haven't controlled something on the testnet that prevents proving the point, until I dig in and then I might lose the time. Sorry. I am working on something now that is worth $millions or more, so why would I stop to mess around in your testnet. Sorry!

You have an obligation to show in your white paper how the Byzantine fault tolerance is achieved.

Operation shit coin clean out in underway. No more bullshitters will be allowed.

Edit: also with the bountry denominated in VNL, then by the time it is paid out, it will probably worth 0. Because you will have already proved that the coin is broken.

[GTO911]

I remember the Monero devs asking duffscammer to prove mathematically darkcoin/dash is sound enough and the shills replied similarly, you prove it lolz

Dev unable to provide proofs - SCAM

If something cannot be done now does not mean it cannot be done in the future with the required resources and enough incentive.

Its like saying there is god but i cant prove it. Rather you should prove that he doesnt exist