Anyone actually asked how much ETH is needed for 'fuel'

[nextgencoin]

Seems to me the fans of ETH want it both ways, when challenged on the unlimited supply they reference that ETH is not a currency but a fuel and then go on about how its going to be worth $50 in a year. blah blah.


So economics 101, if the supply increases and even if it didn't if ETH is not an actual currency that has potential demand due to increased hoped for future use then what exactly are people basing the value of this 'fuel' on?

So it seems no one has asked what the demand even is for this 'fuel' Maybe Ethereum can be massive but still the demand is relatively low, know one knows as no one is even talking about it? Or more importantly quantified it.....

[bl234st]

Seems to me the fans of ETH want it both ways, when challenged on the unlimited supply they reference that ETH is not a currency but a fuel and then go on about how its going to be worth $50 in a year. blah blah.


So economics 101, if the supply increases and even if it didn't if ETH is not an actual currency that has potential demand due to increased hoped for future use then what exactly are people basing the value of this 'fuel' on?

So it seems no one has asked what the demand even is for this 'fuel' Maybe Ethereum can be massive but still the demand is relatively low, know one knows as no one is even talking about it? Or more importantly quantified it.....

Here is a snippet from Stephan....


Don't run out of gas!

Before we go further, there is an important concept you need to understand that will help you master ethereum contracts: gas.

Let's peek under the covers: in order to power the decentralized web, Ethereum cannot possibly rely on any centralized authority (because that authority could manipulate the database). Instead, every node that participates on the network hold a copy of a decentralized database, which they audit.

The network nodes process the code that is being executed in the database and come into agreement as to what the correct state of the database is through a vote. Majority always win the vote, and nodes are incentivized to do this verification work. Voting takes place at regular particular intervals, on average every 12.7 seconds.

The contract we have written earlier will be stored in this database. Contracts are triggered and executed when they are called by users or other contracts.

If you're thinking that this necessary approach presents limits in terms of processing speed, you'd be correct. The total processing power of the Ethereum network, regardless of the number of nodes that forms it, is equal to a single smartphone from 1999. This means that you're not going to want to store megabytes of data on the Ethereum network, or render 3d graphics. There are of course workarounds to this, including our storage solution called Swarm and our secure messaging protocol, Whisper, both companion technologies to Ethereum.

It also means that because computing power is limited, it has to be measured carefully so that no single actor can commit evil deeds such as running infinite loops on all the world's Ethereum nodes. This unit of measure is called 'gas'.

Gas comes into play when you try to make a contract do something. You 'call' a function of the contract, which then executes that function. It could be validating an escrow, or 'like' a friend on a decentralized social app, or transfer an amount of contract-specific token to another user, etc. Anything.

In order to execute this function, the contract will need gas, just like your car does. So, as part of the function call, you specify how much 'gas' you want to send to the contract, and how much you're willing to pay for that gas (priced in ether, Ethereum's fuel and unit of account).

The different operations a contract can support are priced differently. One execution cycle cost one gas for example. Others, like writing to storage, cost considerably more (because storage is a very scarce resource).

If you send too much gas to the contract, and it doesn't use all of it, it is refunded to you. If you send too little, the contract stops and rolls back (just like your car when it's 'out of gas').

How gas is priced depends on the global consensus of the community. It's therefore likely operations that have the best priced gas will be executed first on the network, and the rest a bit later.


Here are some links...

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3gdwzv/buying_gas_with_different_currencies_clarification/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3gak20/ethereums_scaling/ctwk3sd


Just curious. When your car breaks down, do you ask a squirrel what's wrong with it? Of course not, you ask someone who has the answers.

So the question is... why would you ask your question to a bunch of squirrels, when the guys who built it are readily available?

"So it seems no one has asked what the demand even is for?" Really? You think in over two years, nobody has asked this question?

This place is becoming more, and more irrelevant.

I see AnonyMint is poking around your Vanillacoin specs. Karma is a bitch!

[nextgencoin]

I won't be buying your Goldman Sachs coin.

[cryptoboy.architect]

I won't be buying your Goldman Sachs coin.

What does GS have to do with it?!? Have you even looked at the contracts platform? It is so powerful. Furthemore, you don't have to buy it - mine a block, while it's still possible, play around, build your own coin/DApp/whatever.

There's nothing other coins do, that you couldn't do on Ethereum protocol. Also, nice list of DApps in the pipeline: http://dapps.ethercasts.com/

Notice that these are not by the developers of Ethereum. So it's really an open platform anyone can do their own magic on.

What's with all the hate in this space? Someone finally solving the right problems, and everyone is hating, because of "premine", or because developers have "big" salaries. Jeesh, you build your own shitcoin for free then. These guys could get 2x bigger salaries elsewhere, instead they are dedicated to giving people freedom to create their own DACs.

Haters will be haters...

[bl234st]

I won't be buying your Goldman Sachs coin.

Of course not. You will keep buying coins like Bitbay. Seriously... Bitbay? Yikes! I can see why research isn't your strong point.

[bl234st]

I won't be buying your Goldman Sachs coin.

What does GS have to do with it?!? Have you even looked at the contracts platform? It is so powerful. Furthemore, you don't have to buy it - mine a block, while it's still possible, play around, build your own coin/DApp/whatever.

There's nothing other coins do, that you couldn't do on Ethereum protocol. Also, nice list of DApps in the pipeline: http://dapps.ethercasts.com/

Notice that these are not by the developers of Ethereum. So it's really an open platform anyone can do their own magic on.

What's with all the hate in this space? Someone finally solving the right problems, and everyone is hating, because of "premine", or because developers have "big" salaries. Jeesh, you build your own shitcoin for free then. These guys could get 2x bigger salaries elsewhere, instead they are dedicated to giving people freedom to create their own DACs.

Haters will be haters...

Hate is their Gas! It's called Bitterthereum.

[bl234st]

The problem is that virtual synchrony, which is the mechanism used to synchronise the mempools is not designed for Byzantine failures:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_synchrony

None of the three models can handle more complex failures, such as machines that are taken over by a virus, or a network that sometimes modifies the messages transmitted. The so-called Byzantine agreement model goes beyond the data replication schemes discussed here by also solving such issues, but does so at a price: Byzantine replication protocols typically require larger numbers of servers, and can be much slower.

So, if you can pretend to be multiple clients (of which the cost is zero), you can influence replication and therefore affect a double spend. This is essentially a sybil attack.

AM, and monsterer? You need to stop worrying about ETH, it will do fine without your analysis. You should tell AM and monsterer how wrong they are. You can do it! You are a brilliant investor, and researcher! Wish Ethereum had more guys like you! Really knowledgeable types... ya knaw?

[Snail2]

I think there's a more important question about ETH. You know now we have fuel, we have miners, we have channels where users can obtain that fuel from the miners, but we have no idea if there will be any users at all. So the real question is who will use ETH as a "fuel" instead of using as a speculative stuff?

[nextgencoin]

Such bag holding
Such fuel
Such wow

[bl234st]

I think as someone who has invested in vanilla coin then I think John Conner is obliged to answer his critics on this specific issue. I can't see why he wouldn't if he has dealt with it?

Classic! Absolutely Classis! 

[stoat]

I think there's a more important question about ETH. You know now we have fuel, we have miners, we have channels where users can obtain that fuel from the miners, but we have no idea if there will be any users at all. So the real question is who will use ETH as a "fuel" instead of using as a speculative stuff?

Currently the ethereum network has the processing power of a mobile phone.  The users and creators of DAPPS will need fuel to run/use their applications on the network.

"Ethereum uses a programmable unit called smart contracts, with which individuals can create DApps (Decentralized Applications) for any programmable services and projects. Ether differs from bitcoin as a digital asset because it is not meant to be a currency for goods and services. Rather, Ether’s primary purpose is to “fuel” the Ethereum network by paying transaction fees required to operate DApps."

So say for example someone comes up with a DAPP like Uber, the app would use a little bit of ether for each transaction and then pay the driver in Bitcoin automatically and pay the transaction fees in ether.

[bl234st]

Such bag holding
Such fuel
Such wow

Bag holding?

Take the advice of idiots on this form, and you are sure to go broke. Do your own research, and you might have enough chips to stay at the table. I paid nothing for my ETH compared to what I just sold them for. I sold off all of my shitcoins and bought ETH last year, even though you EXPERTS were telling everyone what a mistake that was. Thousands of dollars in PROFIT is all that matters. Your opinions are as common as flies on shit. FUCKING LOSERS! Bunch of losers hanging out at the mall whistling at girls is what this place has become. Keep on being macho BTCtalk, you have nothing else. LMAO!

The amount I have now? Yes. But it's all free. Does that make me a bag holder? I could lose it, and not care one bit... it's free money. I'm in this position because I knew Bitbay was crap, and ETH was the real deal. Now I can gloat. I am gloating now. One day when Bitbay has a piece of that trillion dollar market you were promoting... then you can gloat. Hell freezing over is no easy task, so I wish you the best of luck.

I think as someone who has invested in vanilla coin then I think John Conner is obliged to answer his critics on this specific issue. I can't see why he wouldn't if he has dealt with it?

Because there IS NO SOLUTION to it.. and ergo, he hasn't dealt with it.

Yep! Karma is one nasty bitch!

[nextgencoin]

I'm confused, I barely remember bitbay, maybe bought a bit in the ipo and dumped them, I never owned anything more than a couple of btc.

Defending Ethereum by attacking another coin (vanilla) makes no sense to me, and very little financial risk as I own again a very small amount at present.


I don't believe in karma....pagan fools.

[bl234st]

I'm confused, I barely remember bitbay, maybe bought a bit in the ipo and dumped them, I never owned anything more than a couple of btc.

Defending Ethereum by attacking another coin (vanilla) makes no sense to me, and very little financial risk as I own again a very small amount at present.


I don't believe in karma....pagan fools.

It's ok. Most people will get that I was simply trying to illustrate your propensity for making bad choices, and attacking others without facts, but with ignorance. Ethereum sucked BTC from this place, and that money IMO, is in better hands. Apparently the market also thinks so. $18 million? Only you guys who didn't invest are crying. It was never your money. It was ours! If we had kept our money in these alts... we would be bag holding like you. Making the same mistakes as noobs. What have you really learned in over a year and a half?

Karma doesn't care if you believe in it... it knows you are there. It really hates sanctimonious hypocrites.

Change your thread to... I dislike ETH because It's GS bastard child. At least it would of been honest, than trying to come across as AnonyMint. If you had his intellect, you would know VNC is crap. Just like all you other investments. History is there for a reason mate. It's a tell. And it tells me you have no clue. See... Karma believes in you. You just don't know it.

I am done here. No useful information. Just Karmic consequences.

[K210]

all these people going on about how etherum is the next big thing you have to remember that if etherum does not find a audience it will be worth nothing, the features etherum has are nice but will people actually use them?. Why should they use something as centralised as etherum when there are many decentralised options that are being developed. Bitcoin already has counterparty which allows for 2.0 coins, DASH has darksend which allows for anonymous transactions, LTC has fast transaction speed and PPC has peershares which is a system in development for decentralised organisations. Besides the amount of control the etherum devs have over etherum is unhealthy and goes against the fundamentals of cryptocurrency, i would stay away from this too many red flags.... 

[bl234st]

all these people going on about how etherum is the next big thing you have to remember that if etherum does not find a audience it will be worth nothing, the features etherum has are nice but will people actually use them?. Why should they use something as centralised as etherum when there are many decentralised options that are being developed. Bitcoin already has counterparty which allows for 2.0 coins, DASH has darksend which allows for anonymous transactions, LTC has fast transaction speed and PPC has peershares which is a system in development for decentralised organisations. Besides the amount of control the etherum devs have over etherum is unhealthy and goes against the fundamentals of cryptocurrency, i would stay away from this too many red flags.... 

Question? Do you believe, or better yet... understand that what you just wrote is incorrect?

Counterparty? Vitalik rewrote the main counterparty asset feature in an ethereum language. His point is that custom assets could be just an app inside ethereum.

Ethereum is centralized? The blockchain is a distributed data structure, it's not centralized. There is no central authority or central authoritative copy of the blockchain.

Ethereum having a single blockchain (rather than multiple blockchains) allows contracts to communicate with each other, applies all the network's processing power to maintaining the security of a

single blockchain rather than fragmenting it altcoin-style and ensures that the code and data people wish to use is maintained by the network rather than again fragmenting that effort.


Nobody will use it if they don't get an audience? Well... yeah! Isn't that Econ 101? Ask the OP. He's the teacher.

Wow! And they are censoring you on the reddit?


You are right! Too many red flags. I beg you to stay away and not pollute ETH with your stupidity. You belong here.

[stoat]

"Ethereum having a single blockchain (rather than multiple blockchains) allows contracts to communicate with each other, applies all the network's processing power to maintaining the security of a

single blockchain rather than fragmenting it altcoin-style and ensures that the code and data people wish to use is maintained by the network rather than again fragmenting that effort."

Couldn't have said it better myself

[bl234st]

Here's the great thing about Ethereum. The people who support the project can read.  

[K210]

all these people going on about how etherum is the next big thing you have to remember that if etherum does not find a audience it will be worth nothing, the features etherum has are nice but will people actually use them?. Why should they use something as centralised as etherum when there are many decentralised options that are being developed. Bitcoin already has counterparty which allows for 2.0 coins, DASH has darksend which allows for anonymous transactions, LTC has fast transaction speed and PPC has peershares which is a system in development for decentralised organisations. Besides the amount of control the etherum devs have over etherum is unhealthy and goes against the fundamentals of cryptocurrency, i would stay away from this too many red flags....  

Question? Do you believe, or better yet... understand that what you just wrote is incorrect?

Counterparty? Vitalik rewrote the main counterparty asset feature in an ethereum language. His point is that custom assets could be just an app inside ethereum.

Ethereum is centralized? The blockchain is a distributed data structure, it's not centralized. There is no central authority or central authoritative copy of the blockchain.

Ethereum having a single blockchain (rather than multiple blockchains) allows contracts to communicate with each other, applies all the network's processing power to maintaining the security of a

single blockchain rather than fragmenting it altcoin-style and ensures that the code and data people wish to use is maintained by the network rather than again fragmenting that effort.


Nobody will use it if they don't get an audience? Well... yeah! Isn't that Econ 101? Ask the OP. He's the teacher.

Wow! And they are censoring you on the reddit?


You are right! Too many red flags. I beg you to stay away and not pollute ETH with your stupidity. You belong here.

Wow i never knew ethereum fanboys were so delusional, why is there a need for etherum when bitcoin and other top cryptos already have the same features or have the features in development?, the last thing we need is more shitcoins to pollute the space. Still if you believe that ethereum is going to the moon feel free to burn your money. 

[K210]

Here's the great thing about Ethereum. The people who support the project can read.  

The people who support the project want to get rich quick the dump that has been going on recently is proof of it.