Mike Hearn talking about theymos and BitcoinTalk forum policy

[GermanGiant]

The long, hot summer of 2015 has revealed something surprising about the Bitcoin community: many people have strange and technically unsupportable ideas about how the block chain algorithm actually works.

This has culminated in Michael Marquardt, who admins bitcoin.org and various discussion forums, banning all discussion of Bitcoin XT and threatening to delete services that use it from the official Bitcoin website. His rationale is that Bitcoin XT is an alt coin because it is intended to trigger a hard fork. On the other hand, “soft forks” are totally OK.

This position doesn’t make any technical sense, and in this article I will explain why not.

Source: https://medium.com/@octskyward/on-consensus-and-forks-c6a050c792e7

[1715468981]

1715468981

[1715468981]

1715468981

[1715468981]

1715468981

[maku]

I don't care about technicalities behind bitcoin XT and its being an alt coin. I care about censorship and deleting posts.
I feel if theymos or anyone from mod division think XT is not valid bitcoin fork anymore then ok I respect their opinion, it may be true.
Just move the XT discussion topics to altcoin section instead of deleting it. Or maybe create new forum section for these kind of threads.

[valkir]

We really gonna have to find a path of solution. This cant be good for bitcoin.

Could we do a vote base on quantity of bitcoin you own? With a signature ?

Or something to resolve this problem.

We cant fight together when bitcoin is not even yet mainstream.

Stop fighting start workign together. Finding the best solution! 

[jonald_fyookball]

it's not an altcoin.  Clearly there is this block debate and many people want bigger blocks.
I want bigger blocks too.  Too bad the core devs who are against an increase like gmaxwell
are forcing people who want bigger blocks to side with Hearn.  What a mess.

[johnyj]

Get some idea about Mike's points, however I disagree with this sentence

"But this isn’t how money works. Money is inherently a social tool and to use a currency is to accept its rules, even if you don’t like them. "

He maybe meant that "this is not how fiat money works". True, people have to become the slave of central banks because they don't have a choice, but that is forced upon them, not their free will to participate. Now people have the choice to use a currency of their own will and devoted much resources and effort into it, they definitely don't want it to become something they don't like

Because cryptocurrency is not forced upon its users, those who don't like the new fork will just leave it (dump their holdings and crash the price at mean time), that's the reason it is very important to reach a consensus at a most acceptable common ground, everyone should make some compromise

[kelsey]

those who don't like the new fork will just leave it

thats bs right there, those who don't like it get screwed over basically.

the new fork will not be bitcoin but an alt and likely to be heading to worthlessness, so everyone loses.

[meono]

those who don't like the new fork will just leave it

thats bs right there, those who don't like it get screwed over basically.

the new fork will not be bitcoin but an alt and likely to be heading to worthlessness, so everyone loses.

No dumbass thats how society function. You will never get 100% concensus. If you want to live in your la la land then bitcoin cant help you

[gogxmagog]

You lost me at "Bitcoin.org"
There is no other than
Bitcointalk

[kelsey]

those who don't like the new fork will just leave it

thats bs right there, those who don't like it get screwed over basically.

the new fork will not be bitcoin but an alt and likely to be heading to worthlessness, so everyone loses.

No dumbass thats how society function. You will never get 100% concensus. If you want to live in your la la land then bitcoin cant help you

the consensus people are bs on about here, and all the love it or leave it bs etc is bs.

its like politicians that get elected and claim a mandate to do what they like, when they weren't actually voted in the other guy was voted out. or most the population had no choice.

if 99.99 of people agree for bitcoin to be altered so there is 42 million of it, then that still makes it no longer bitcoin.

people decide on bitcoinxt well thats just getting an alt to replace bitcoin and kills the real bitcoin.

[meono]

those who don't like the new fork will just leave it

thats bs right there, those who don't like it get screwed over basically.

the new fork will not be bitcoin but an alt and likely to be heading to worthlessness, so everyone loses.

No dumbass thats how society function. You will never get 100% concensus. If you want to live in your la la land then bitcoin cant help you

the consensus people are bs on about here, and all the love it or leave it bs etc is bs.

its like politicians that get elected and claim a mandate to do what they like, when they weren't actually voted in the other guy was voted out. or most the population had no choice.

if 99.99 of people agree for bitcoin to be altered so there is 42 million of it, then that still makes it no longer bitcoin.

people decide on bitcoinxt well thats just getting an alt to replace bitcoin and kills the real bitcoin.

No dumbass, there is no such thing as "real bitcoin". Bitcoin is a network, and it will evolve to grow. You talk like like some dumb kid arguing about a video game expansion dilemma

[meono]

Stop calling folk ... Altcoin. If you cant understand the differences, dont open your mouth and remove all the doubt


Like Theymos did with his .... Soft folk and hard folk.

[kelsey]

those who don't like the new fork will just leave it

thats bs right there, those who don't like it get screwed over basically.

the new fork will not be bitcoin but an alt and likely to be heading to worthlessness, so everyone loses.

No dumbass thats how society function. You will never get 100% concensus. If you want to live in your la la land then bitcoin cant help you

the consensus people are bs on about here, and all the love it or leave it bs etc is bs.

its like politicians that get elected and claim a mandate to do what they like, when they weren't actually voted in the other guy was voted out. or most the population had no choice.

if 99.99 of people agree for bitcoin to be altered so there is 42 million of it, then that still makes it no longer bitcoin.

people decide on bitcoinxt well thats just getting an alt to replace bitcoin and kills the real bitcoin.

No dumbass, there is no such thing as "real bitcoin". Bitcoin is a network, and it will evolve to grow. You talk like like some dumb kit arguing about a video game

Cant blame you, you joined after the bubble ine 2013 right? .....

takes 10secs to check my profile and see how long i've been around, and i can assure you i've been around alts before even bitcoin (yes there was alternatives to fiat long before bitcoin).

i've never traded btc for fiat or vica versa so i can't say i've ever experienced a btc bubble.

nor do i hold or intend to hold at anytime in the future bitcoin (whether it be bitcoin core, or some alt fork like bitcoinxt), because unlike all the IT type tools here i actually understand economics, and the market. and the ONLY thing that dictates price of this bitcoin trading token (whens its not being faked by the likes of gox etc) is the greater fool theory;

The greater fool theory states that the price of an object is determined not by its intrinsic value, but rather by irrational beliefs and expectations of market participants. A price can be justified by a rational buyer under the belief that another party is willing to pay an even higher price. Or one may rationally have the expectation that the item can be resold to a "greater fool" later.

[hilariousandco]

I don't care about technicalities behind bitcoin XT and its being an alt coin. I care about censorship and deleting posts.
I feel if theymos or anyone from mod division think XT is not valid bitcoin fork anymore then ok I respect their opinion, it may be true.
Just move the XT discussion topics to altcoin section instead of deleting it. Or maybe create new forum section for these kind of threads.

Posts won't be deleted unless they're duplicates or break some rule, but threads will be moved to the alt coin section.

[kelsey]

I don't care about technicalities behind bitcoin XT and its being an alt coin. I care about censorship and deleting posts.
I feel if theymos or anyone from mod division think XT is not valid bitcoin fork anymore then ok I respect their opinion, it may be true.
Just move the XT discussion topics to altcoin section instead of deleting it. Or maybe create new forum section for these kind of threads.

Posts won't be deleted unless they're duplicates or break some rule, but threads will be moved to the alt coin section.

btcs (bitcoin scrypt) threads used to be deleted, under the grounds of the confusion it could cause with bitcoin, can't see why bitcoinxt shouldn't be treated any difference,...well if confusions taken into account even more so because atleast btcs wasn't claiming to be or take over from bitcoin.

[meono]

those who don't like the new fork will just leave it

thats bs right there, those who don't like it get screwed over basically.

the new fork will not be bitcoin but an alt and likely to be heading to worthlessness, so everyone loses.

No dumbass thats how society function. You will never get 100% concensus. If you want to live in your la la land then bitcoin cant help you

the consensus people are bs on about here, and all the love it or leave it bs etc is bs.

its like politicians that get elected and claim a mandate to do what they like, when they weren't actually voted in the other guy was voted out. or most the population had no choice.

if 99.99 of people agree for bitcoin to be altered so there is 42 million of it, then that still makes it no longer bitcoin.

people decide on bitcoinxt well thats just getting an alt to replace bitcoin and kills the real bitcoin.

No dumbass, there is no such thing as "real bitcoin". Bitcoin is a network, and it will evolve to grow. You talk like like some dumb kit arguing about a video game

Cant blame you, you joined after the bubble ine 2013 right? .....

takes 10secs to check my profile and see how long i've been around, and i can assure you i've been around alts before even bitcoin (yes there was alternatives to fiat long before bitcoin).

i've never traded btc for fiat or vica versa so i can't say i've ever experienced a btc bubble.

nor do i hold or intend to hold at anytime in the future bitcoin (whether it be bitcoin core, or some alt fork like bitcoinxt), because unlike all the IT type tools here i actually understand economics, and the market. and the ONLY thing that dictates price of this bitcoin trading token (whens its not being faked by the likes of gox etc) is the greater fool theory;

The greater fool theory states that the price of an object is determined not by its intrinsic value, but rather by irrational beliefs and expectations of market participants. A price can be justified by a rational buyer under the belief that another party is willing to pay an even higher price. Or one may rationally have the expectation that the item can be resold to a "greater fool" later.

Oh right i remember you now. You're the fool you missed the boat and since then has been extremely hostile to bitcoin. You kept singing the greater fool and implying to know economy.

Oh hey old friend , how are you? It must suck to keep spend time on this forum about something you hate huh? Don't hate life so much as you don't seem to be missed by anyone here but me.

[iCEBREAKER]

The long, hot summer of 2015 has revealed something surprising about the Bitcoin community: many people have strange and technically unsupportable ideas about how the block chain algorithm actually works.

This has culminated in [theymos], who admins bitcoin.org and various discussion forums, banning all discussion of Bitcoin XT and threatening to delete services that use it from the official Bitcoin website. His rationale is that Bitcoin XT is an alt coin because it is intended to trigger a hard fork. On the other hand, “soft forks” are totally OK.

This position doesn’t make any technical sense, and in this article I will explain why not.

Source: https://medium.com/@octskyward/on-consensus-and-forks-c6a050c792e7

Banning?  XT discussion is not banned here.  As usual, Hearn@sigint.google.mil gets his facts wrong:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22XT%22+site%3Abitcointalk.org

--> About 3,050 results


Why use theymos' personally identifiable information instead of his familiar screen name?  If the intent is to facilitate harm to a non-public figure IRL, Hearn better hope theymos remains perfectly safe for the duration of the Blockchain Missile Crisis.

[Kakmakr]

This Bitcoin Core / XT thing is getting old now. Let's allow freedom of speech and battle out the definitions of a Alt coin, in the Alt coin section. This debate is not constructive and it's dividing the Bitcoin community. In some way this is not about Bitcoin, but who can get the biggest support and the most power.

We cannot allow a few individuals to come in and destroy everything that has been built up over more than 6 years. Bitcoin Core has been the original fork from the start, and we should acknowledge that status as a tribute to it's inventor or inventors.  

[meono]

This Bitcoin Core / XT thing is getting old now. Let's allow freedom of speech and battle out the definitions of a Alt coin, in the Alt coin section. This debate is not constructive and it's dividing the Bitcoin community. In some way this is not about Bitcoin, but who can get the biggest support and the most power.

We cannot allow a few individuals to come in and destroy everything that has been built up over more than 6 years. Bitcoin Core has been the original fork from the start, and we should acknowledge that status as a tribute to it's inventor or inventors.  

Dumb ass bitcoin core is just a client to enforce rules on a network. It has been updated with new rules many times.

So technically bitcoin has been forked many times in the past. Dont be dumbass and confused with the terminology. Network will have to be updated to grow. If an altcoin has features that bitcoin can benifict from, it will be coded in and ppl can choose to accept it or not.

[kelsey]

those who don't like the new fork will just leave it

thats bs right there, those who don't like it get screwed over basically.

the new fork will not be bitcoin but an alt and likely to be heading to worthlessness, so everyone loses.

No dumbass thats how society function. You will never get 100% concensus. If you want to live in your la la land then bitcoin cant help you

the consensus people are bs on about here, and all the love it or leave it bs etc is bs.

its like politicians that get elected and claim a mandate to do what they like, when they weren't actually voted in the other guy was voted out. or most the population had no choice.

if 99.99 of people agree for bitcoin to be altered so there is 42 million of it, then that still makes it no longer bitcoin.

people decide on bitcoinxt well thats just getting an alt to replace bitcoin and kills the real bitcoin.

No dumbass, there is no such thing as "real bitcoin". Bitcoin is a network, and it will evolve to grow. You talk like like some dumb kit arguing about a video game

Cant blame you, you joined after the bubble ine 2013 right? .....

takes 10secs to check my profile and see how long i've been around, and i can assure you i've been around alts before even bitcoin (yes there was alternatives to fiat long before bitcoin).

i've never traded btc for fiat or vica versa so i can't say i've ever experienced a btc bubble.

nor do i hold or intend to hold at anytime in the future bitcoin (whether it be bitcoin core, or some alt fork like bitcoinxt), because unlike all the IT type tools here i actually understand economics, and the market. and the ONLY thing that dictates price of this bitcoin trading token (whens its not being faked by the likes of gox etc) is the greater fool theory;

The greater fool theory states that the price of an object is determined not by its intrinsic value, but rather by irrational beliefs and expectations of market participants. A price can be justified by a rational buyer under the belief that another party is willing to pay an even higher price. Or one may rationally have the expectation that the item can be resold to a "greater fool" later.

Oh right i remember you now. You're the fool you missed the boat and since then has been extremely hostile to bitcoin. You kept singing the greater fool and implying to know economy.

Oh hey old friend , how are you? It must suck to keep spend time on this forum about something you hate huh? Don't hate life so much as you don't seem to be missed by anyone here but me.

well i 100% love the idea of a p2p alternative to fiat currency, but like i've said many times before the only thing good to come out of cryptos todate is the idea.

why am i here; well last time i looked it was called "bitcointalk.org", not "bitcoinonlypositivetalk.org" or "bitcoinletscirclejerkeachotherintobelieveingbitcoinhassomeintrinsicevalue.org"

and i have an interest in alt to fiats for research purpose, also i'm doing research in unregulated markets.

i'm not here for the fiat so i've not missed any boats.

[iCEBREAKER]

This Bitcoin Core / XT thing is getting old now and it's dividing the Bitcoin community.

It's dividing the community into XT's 3% and Bitcoin's 97% (*yawn*).   

#rekt