the difference between the Bitcoin-XT client and Bitcoin-XT network/currency

[Blazr]

So people on here and on reddit have been complaining about censorship of bitcoin-XT topics.

This is because the staff consider the bitcoin-XT currency to be an altcoin, which I agree with. Altcoin topics must go in the altcoin section on bitcointalk and I think they are trashed on /r/bitcoin. Because the Bitcoin-XT currency is an altcoin, if the staff were to allow bitcoin-XT in the other sections but not dogecoin or litecoin and the other altcoins, then that would really be censorship.

However I'd like to point out that bitcoin-XT currently uses the same network/currency as every other Bitcoin client right now. And while the developers of this client do have plans to switch to a new network/currency with a trigger in the code, at present bitcoin-XT is a Bitcoin client and not an altcoin client.

Therefore because bitcoin-XT is currently a Bitcoin client, shouldn't discussion of the client itself be allowed in the main sections?

if another Bitcoin client such as Electrum announced plans to drop support for Bitcoin in favor of Litecoin sometime in the future, would the staff immediately ban discussion of this client in the main sections, or would they allow it until it actually transitions to another currency?

This is why I think the guys who delisted bitcoin-XT from bitcoin.org were wrong in doing that, as it is currently a Bitcoin client. Any Bitcoin client could change to another currency if they wanted, just because the developers of this one plan to do that in the future doesn't make it an altcoin client right now, when it changes it will be an altcoin client.

[redsn0w]

So people on here and on reddit have been complaining about censorship of bitcoin-XT topics.

This is because the staff consider the bitcoin-XT currency to be an altcoin, which I agree with. Altcoin topics must go in the altcoin section on bitcointalk and I think they are trashed on /r/bitcoin. Because the Bitcoin-XT currency is an altcoin, if the staff were to allow bitcoin-XT in the other sections but not dogecoin or litecoin and the other altcoins, then that would really be censorship.

However I'd like to point out that bitcoin-XT currently uses the same network/currency as every other Bitcoin client right now. And while the developers of this client do have plans to switch to a new network/currency with a trigger in the code, at present bitcoin-XT is a Bitcoin client and not an altcoin client.

Therefore because bitcoin-XT is currently a Bitcoin client, shouldn't discussion of the client itself be allowed in the main sections?

if another Bitcoin client such as Electrum announced plans to drop support for Bitcoin in favor of Litecoin sometime in the future, would the staff immediately ban discussion of this client in the main sections, or would they allow it until it actually transitions to another currency?

This is why I think the guys who delisted bitcoin-XT from bitcoin.org were wrong in doing that, as it is currently a Bitcoin client. Any Bitcoin client could change to another currency if they wanted, just because the developers of this one plan to do that in the future doesn't make it an altcoin client right now, when it changes it will be an altcoin client.

Wait, if bitcoinXT is using the same network & currency than it is not (theoretically) an altcoin but like you said only another 'valid' client and this form of censorship is not really good.


I never expected a comportment like this by theymos and all the staff.

[Quickseller]

XT could possibly change the rules of the protocol without consensus and at the whim of the devs of XT. Bitcoin core does not allow this and will follow strict rules regarding what blocks will be accepted and which ones will not be.

[Blazr]

So people on here and on reddit have been complaining about censorship of bitcoin-XT topics.

This is because the staff consider the bitcoin-XT currency to be an altcoin, which I agree with. Altcoin topics must go in the altcoin section on bitcointalk and I think they are trashed on /r/bitcoin. Because the Bitcoin-XT currency is an altcoin, if the staff were to allow bitcoin-XT in the other sections but not dogecoin or litecoin and the other altcoins, then that would really be censorship.

However I'd like to point out that bitcoin-XT currently uses the same network/currency as every other Bitcoin client right now. And while the developers of this client do have plans to switch to a new network/currency with a trigger in the code, at present bitcoin-XT is a Bitcoin client and not an altcoin client.

Therefore because bitcoin-XT is currently a Bitcoin client, shouldn't discussion of the client itself be allowed in the main sections?

if another Bitcoin client such as Electrum announced plans to drop support for Bitcoin in favor of Litecoin sometime in the future, would the staff immediately ban discussion of this client in the main sections, or would they allow it until it actually transitions to another currency?

This is why I think the guys who delisted bitcoin-XT from bitcoin.org were wrong in doing that, as it is currently a Bitcoin client. Any Bitcoin client could change to another currency if they wanted, just because the developers of this one plan to do that in the future doesn't make it an altcoin client right now, when it changes it will be an altcoin client.

Wait, if bitcoinXT is using the same network & currency than it is not an (theoretically) altcoin but like you said only another 'valid' client and this form of censorship is not really good.


I never expected a comportment like this by theymos and all the staff.

Yes, right now (Auguest 14th 2015) Bitcoin-XT clients connect to Bitcoin Core clients and use the same currency as them.

The only difference is any miners running Bitcoin-XT add a message to blocks they are mining signifiying they are running XT. Once 75% of the block being mined have this message, then all Bitcoin-XT clients will STOP connecting to Bitcoin Core clients, they will only connect to other Bitcoin-XT nodes and they will use a currency that doesn't work with Bitcoin Core clients. When that happens then the Bitcoin-XT network/currency will be created. However right now Bitcoin-XT is a normal Bitcoin client, the Bitcoin-XT network/currency doesn't actually exist yet. While discussion XT currency is offtopic, I don't think discussion about the client itself is.

[redsn0w]

XT could possibly change the rules of the protocol without consensus and at the whim of the devs of XT. Bitcoin core does not allow this and will follow strict rules regarding what blocks will be accepted and which ones will not be.

bitcoinXT can surely change the things, but here the problem is that there is a division of the bitcoin devolopers ... and each of one should inform himself and choose bitcoin Core or bitcoinXT. The censorship is never a good thing.

[becoin]

This is because the staff consider the bitcoin-XT currency to be an altcoin

They are correct. Bitcoin XT is not altcoin yet, but will be when hardfork of bitcoin will inevitably occur as a result of larger block size accepted in future!

[Blazr]

This is because the staff consider the bitcoin-XT currency to be an altcoin

They are correct. Bitcoin XT is not altcoin yet, but will be when hardfork of bitcoin will inevitably occur as a result of larger block size accepted in future!

Exactly. So why censor it now? Right now I can download the Bitcoin-Xt client, import my wallet from Bitcoin Core and spend my coins at merchants that use Bitcoin Core. So obviously isn't an altcoin client right now, its a usable Bitcoin client just like any other. Doesn't make sense to censor it now becuase it will become an altcoin client in the future.

Just to note by they way that my opinion is that I am for larger blocks (or a abolition of a blocksize limit altogether). However I am totally against Bitcoin-XT and they way certain developers are trying to change the blocksize. People are being mislead into believing Bitcoin-XT is different from any other altcoin such as litecoin, it really isn't different. I also think that they should remove the "bitcoin" part from the name as this is a huge part of the confusion. Mark Karpeles used to own the trademark for the term "Bitcoin" in the US I believe, maybe he should have his lawyers look into the misuse of this trademark.

[redsn0w]

This is because the staff consider the bitcoin-XT currency to be an altcoin

They are correct. Bitcoin XT is not altcoin yet, but will be when hardfork of bitcoin will inevitably occur as a result of larger block size accepted in future!

Exactly. So why censor it now? beucase I can go and download the Bitcoin-Xt client and use it with Bitcoin Core clients, so right now it obviously isn't an altcoin, its a usable Bitcoin client just like any other.

It seems that here the problem is another one, the 'money'.

[becoin]

This is because the staff consider the bitcoin-XT currency to be an altcoin

They are correct. Bitcoin XT is not altcoin yet, but will be when hardfork of bitcoin will inevitably occur as a result of larger block size accepted in future!

Exactly. So why censor it now? Right now I can download the Bitcoin-Xt client, import my wallet from Bitcoin Core and spend my coins at merchants that use Bitcoin Core. So obviously isn't an altcoin client right now, its a usable Bitcoin client just like any other. Doesn't make sense to censor it now becuase it will become an altcoin client in the future.

They sensor it not because of the alt client but because of the alt coin! It makes perfect sense to me. Bitcoin XT is not Bitcoin!

[Blazr]

This is because the staff consider the bitcoin-XT currency to be an altcoin

They are correct. Bitcoin XT is not altcoin yet, but will be when hardfork of bitcoin will inevitably occur as a result of larger block size accepted in future!

Exactly. So why censor it now? Right now I can download the Bitcoin-Xt client, import my wallet from Bitcoin Core and spend my coins at merchants that use Bitcoin Core. So obviously isn't an altcoin client right now, its a usable Bitcoin client just like any other. Doesn't make sense to censor it now becuase it will become an altcoin client in the future.

They sensor it not because of the alt client but because of the alt coin! It makes perfect sense to me. Bitcoin XT is not Bitcoin!

I know it isn't. But I am talking about this Bitcoin client you can download called Bitcoin-XT. Not the currency that will exist when many people are running this client. Because as I said, it is a Bitcoin client right now taht works the same as any other. The fact that it may switch to another coin in the future does not matter IMO. Bitcoin-XT has been around for a long time, before the currency was ever planned. If it never achieves the 75% trigger, then it will likely stay a Bitcoin client forever and many people will likely still run it because it does have some other technical features that some people use for stuff.

[Quickseller]

This is because the staff consider the bitcoin-XT currency to be an altcoin

They are correct. Bitcoin XT is not altcoin yet, but will be when hardfork of bitcoin will inevitably occur as a result of larger block size accepted in future!

Exactly. So why censor it now? Right now I can download the Bitcoin-Xt client, import my wallet from Bitcoin Core and spend my coins at merchants that use Bitcoin Core. So obviously isn't an altcoin client right now, its a usable Bitcoin client just like any other. Doesn't make sense to censor it now becuase it will become an altcoin client in the future.

They sensor it not because of the alt client but because of the alt coin! It makes perfect sense to me. Bitcoin XT is not Bitcoin!

Well the XT client is not being used for any altcoin right now. Currently it is broadcasting Bitcoin transactions and is being used with and on the Bitcoin network.

[becoin]

The fact that it may will switch to another coin in the future does not matter IMO.

It does matter now, right?

[Blazr]

The fact that it may will switch to another coin in the future does not matter IMO.

It does matter now, right?

You are wrong, bitcoin-xt MAY switch to another currency.

Bitcoin-XT will NOT switch to another currency if it does not hit its target of 75% of miners. Bitcoin-XT has been around for years, it is a Bitcoin client just like any others, it has some extra features not in Bitcoin Core and many people ran it for specific purposes. If it doesn't hit 75% then it will wont switch to another currency and continue to be used by many as a normal Bitcoin client.

[becoin]

Bitcoin-XT will NOT switch to another currency if it does not hit its target of 75% of miners.

But it will if it does! Besides, I don't see any obstacle in lowering that target to 70%, or 60%, or 51%... or even less?

[Blazr]

But it will if it does! Besides, I don't see any obstacle in lowering that target to 70%, or 60%, or 51%... or even less?

Well that would almost certainly kill bitcoin-XT, (even 75% is stupidly risky, the very idea of forking this way is stupidly risky). but that figure is irrelevant. All that matters is that the currency that Bitcoin-XT uses right now is Bitcoin. Any client could change their currency at anytime if the developers of it decided, electrum, bitcoin core, armory. We don't know, maybe tomorrow electrum could switch to litecoin, who knows its certainly possible but highly unlikely. Much in the same way bitcoin-XT will switch if they hit 75%, its still a maybe it's highly possible they wont. You see what I'm saying? this is the actual censorship that is going on.

[meono]

But it will if it does! Besides, I don't see any obstacle in lowering that target to 70%, or 60%, or 51%... or even less?

Well that would almost certainly kill bitcoin-XT, (even 75% is stupidly risky, the very idea of forking this way is stupidly risky). but that figure is irrelevant. All that matters is that the currency that Bitcoin-XT uses right now is Bitcoin. Any client could change their currency at anytime if the developers of it decided, electrum, bitcoin core, armory. We don't know, maybe tomorrow electrum could switch to litecoin, who knows its certainly possible but highly unlikely. Much in the same way bitcoin-XT will switch if they hit 75%, its still a maybe it's highly possible they wont. You see what I'm saying? this is the actual censorship that is going on.

Stop saying its like Electrum decide to switch to Litecoin..... It makes you look stupid.

Because that just means Electrum switch user base/network. It does not fork the network its on right now thus split the user base of the current network.

See the difference?

I dont support censorship, but idiots like you who doesnt undertand and try to argue make them sound like they have a good reason for the censhorship.


My argument is simple, they say BitcoinXT is an altcoin because they assume there will be 2 bitcoin blockchains, well thats not gonna happen. They can argue that well forking will always defranchise a percentage of bitcoiners.... well so did every folk before this , soft fork or hard fork .

They're running out of argument because they dont like the fact hat this fork is NOT lead by Bitcoin core Devs. Simple as that.

[Blazr]

My argument is simple, they say BitcoinXT is an altcoin because they assume there will be 2 bitcoin blockchains, well thats not gonna happen. They can argue that well forking will always defranchise a percentage of bitcoiners.... well so did every folk before this , soft fork or hard fork

No thats not why its an altcoin.

When bitcoin-Xt triggers and switches to another currency, the original bitcoin blockchain will exist with a hashrate of around 25% and everyone running bitcoin core will still be using it (assuming the devs of bitcoin core don't also decide to switch to XT, which is one scenario the devs of XT are hoping for). Not only that but it will still be  reasonably safe to use too for a peroid afterwards because as theymos mentioned in another post there are very little things that could attack 25% of the hashrate of the bitcoin network besides the bitcoin-Xt network.

I'm not going to argue with you because you are just a troll looking for a reaction and I actually knew you would post in this thread when I replied to you in that other thread. I'll just add you to my ignore list instead

[becoin]

All that matters is that the currency that Bitcoin-XT uses right now is Bitcoin.

No. All that matters is that Bitcoin XT is designed to fool ordinary users that they use bitcoin and switch to an altcoin as soon as enough people are fooled to use the Bitcoin XT client.

[Blazr]

No. All that matters is that Bitcoin XT is designed to fool ordinary users that they use bitcoin and switch to an altcoin as soon as enough people are fooled to use the Bitcoin XT client.

I agree, but I feel strongly about censorship and I think having a fair moderation policy is very important. We don't censor obvious scams around here. Being misleading isn't a good enough reason to put it in the altcoin section IMO. It's also very difficult to say it is misleading when it is a fully transparent open source project, it's only misleading to those not well informed.

[meono]

All that matters is that the currency that Bitcoin-XT uses right now is Bitcoin.

No. All that matters is that Bitcoin XT is designed to fool ordinary users that they use bitcoin and switch to an altcoin as soon as enough people are fooled to use the Bitcoin XT client.

LOL if its called Bitcoin 0.12 would that make you feel better?

The blocksize increase can be rolled out from bitcoin core dev and essentially fork the blockchain too? What happens to little guys that dont like it? Oh right... they just have to right?

We've done this before, dont spin this around this time.