The number of mined Bitcoin XT blocks is increasing

[Hazir]

After reading this thread I can say one thing. Stop argue people. You are all like children who think their toy is the best and better than their friends.
That is the major flaw of bitcoin in my opinion, democracy is not always good, everyone have their own opinion and it is hard to find the best solution.
Usually you need to sacrifice something to gain another and it is not easy choice. With XT vs Core is exactly the same, only time will tell who was right.

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[smoothie]

Until the 'C' word is reached, there's no change.

I wonder if you call 75% of miners a consensus. Because it's not, it's ridiculous.

You should be thankful we didn't need a hard fork to introduce the 1MB cap in the first place, otherwise there's a possibility it might still be 32MB (or was it 33.5MB?).  I suppose you think Bitcoin would have broken and died by now if the 1MB cap hadn't happened?  

There's a high probability it can possibly go wrong with this approach, I simply detest it.

You can detest it all you like, but if you use Bitcoin, this is what you're signing up for.  Bitcoin can fork at any time for any reason if enough users want it to.  If you can't handle that, there are plenty of closed-source projects that might suit you better.  You have a vote if you choose to use it, but that's all.  Either go with the flow or go somewhere else.  It's up to you.  

Imagine if I came up with a new IP protocol (for argument's sake we'll call it IPvXT ) that added support for new features for the internet but only if the majority of the internet used it.  Until then it remains fully compatible with the current IPv4 or IPv6 implementations and you argued that using it means you aren't using the internet anymore.  You're using an altnet.  It just sounds farcical.

The analogy is flawed, because internet is not a consensus-critical network. There can be any number of protocols in use, e.g. IPv4 and IPv6 currently. Internet is not defined by a single universal protocol, Bitcoin is.

I never said it was a good analogy, it's not like there's anything else I can really compare Bitcoin to, is there?  Still doesn't make it an altcoin, though.

If XT deviates from Bitcoin's blockchain without consensus then I'll be right there with you dismissing it as an altcoin, but until then you either sound like you're calling it an altcoin out of ignorance or malice.  I honestly can't decide which it is.

Oh ok, so I'm either ignorant or malicious. The possibility of yourself being wrong is not even considered, I guess.

I'm not one of those people who are too stubborn to admit when they're wrong (as per my previous post).  If you can convince me I'm wrong, I'll concede.  It's not my fault you're doing a really bad job of convincing me.  

Not.  An.  Altcoin.

Omg the last paragraph made me laugh ahaha!

Oh the free entertainment from the Bitcoin community.

Priceless!

[smoothie]

I have 100 bitcoins on my XT client.  I will sell them for $50 each.  But I guess since its just a altcoin nobody here would be interested?

Really?

Pretty sure there has been no fork yet.

[Alley]

I have 100 bitcoins on my XT client.  I will sell them for $50 each.  But I guess since its just a altcoin nobody here would be interested?

Really?

Pretty sure there has been no fork yet.

So you're saying its not a altcoin?

[gentlemand]

I have 100 bitcoins on my XT client.  I will sell them for $50 each.  But I guess since its just a altcoin nobody here would be interested?

Get real.

$25 for the lot and I'll take them off your hands.

[smoothie]

I have 100 bitcoins on my XT client.  I will sell them for $50 each.  But I guess since its just a altcoin nobody here would be interested?

Get real.

$25 for the lot and I'll take them off your hands.

Assuming this is a real offer and they are using the current stable xt client I would buy them all.

[kelsey]

You keep using that word, i dont think you know what it means

Maybe you can go and live in China USA to understand what dictationship censorship propaganda means

Fixed it for you.   

fixed it for you both

[iCEBREAKER]

I have 100 bitcoins on my XT client.  I will sell them for $50 each.  But I guess since its just a altcoin nobody here would be interested?

Get real.

$25 for the lot and I'll take them off your hands.

Assuming this is a real offer and they are using the current stable xt client I would buy them all.

You two's XT white knighting warms my usually aloof Fire Dragon's heart.

So selfless.  So courageous.  

[iCEBREAKER]

You keep using that word, i dont think you know what it means

Maybe you can go and live in China USA to understand what dictationship censorship propaganda means

Fixed it for you.   

fixed it for you both

In (mainland) China, are the names of the two heroes in the above picture renowned and appropriately celebrated?

I have been led to believe they are not, but perhaps that's just "USA propaganda."

Please correct my misapprehension and improve my understanding.   

[kelsey]

You keep using that word, i dont think you know what it means

Maybe you can go and live in China USA to understand what dictationship censorship propaganda means

Fixed it for you.  

fixed it for you both

In (mainland) China, are the names of the two heroes in the above picture renowned and appropriately celebrated?

I have been led to believe they are not, but perhaps that's just "USA propaganda."

Please correct my misapprehension and improve my understanding.  

in the US there's a label for civilians standing in the way of tanks; terrorists  and iraq had weapons of mass destruction (and of course the US wouldn't be armed to the teeth itself with WMDs, but if it did it as leader of the free world has every right too   )and with osama in charge iraq destroyed the world trade center ....  

[iCEBREAKER]

You keep using that word, i dont think you know what it means

Maybe you can go and live in China USA to understand what dictationship censorship propaganda means

Fixed it for you.  

fixed it for you both

In (mainland) China, are the names of the two heroes in the above picture renowned and appropriately celebrated?

I have been led to believe they are not, but perhaps that's just "USA propaganda."

Please correct my misapprehension and improve my understanding.  

in the US there's a label for civilians standing in the way of tanks; terrorists  and iraq had weapons of mass destruction (and of course the US wouldn't be armed to the teeth itself with WMDs, but if it did it as leader of the free world has every right too   )and with osama in charge iraq destroyed the world trade center ....  

Let's stick to my open question and the subject of censorship, instead of wandering off into unrelated (although distracting) Dubya vs Saddam vs 9-11 melodrama.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that "in the US there's a label for civilians standing in the way of tanks; terrorists."

In (mainland) China, is there even a label for Tank Man and Tank Driver?  Or is knowledge of their heroic, patriotic actions (and mere existence) denied to those who should most cherish and honor their memories?

If you haven't noticed, attempting to deflect attention from the PLA's authoritarian censorship onto other issues has no effect on me, and only makes you look defensive.   

[timothythomas]

thats something nice .. would be keeping eye on it from now on

[fryarminer]

-snip-
Anyway, I *really* hope the core devs can find a compromise between a sudden switch 8MB or no growth at all, so that Bitcoin doesn't have to be split into Core and XT.

2 MB blocks in November 2015 is the proposed backup plan.
It is the current policy to move XT threads to the altcoin section. Whoever proposes this within the topic has not made a mistake but rather is following the policy (which is controversial according to some). XT has caused so many unneeded problems, and has yielded with so many pointless discussions.

Gentlemen, this is proof that Bitcoin Core is centralized.

[Lauda]

Gentlemen, this is proof that Bitcoin Core is centralized.

Exactly how is this proof of anything? I'm just a unknown entity who is stating his opinions. I have no relations with anybody from Core nor XT.

The drooling masses are clamoring for a Strong Man to take them into space faster than the free world, IE a Stalin for Satoshi's Gagarin.

What is it with dictators and checkpoints anyway?  Hearn (not theymos) is the "epitome of authoritarianism."  

Interestingly they come here complaining that theymos is censoring things (which he is not), but they support Hearns who proposed the idea of a benevolent dictator.  

I still don't understand why people do not go with BIP 100 or 102 and our problems would be solved for now. Hearn and Gavin have caused so much unnecessary drama and problems for nothing.

But, what if all this block size stuff is just a bait to make everyone do the switch (let's leave aside the probabilites of that IRL) and only after the world has been conquered, do the controversial changes start to come in? (eg. that "redlisting" thing that MH was all for). The world is not going to switch back even if Bitcoin Core supports bigger blocks.

Exactly. This is something that I've been trying to explain to others. Since Hearn likes the idea of a 'bitcoin dictator' that can make the final decisions regardless of consensus, it can't be good. At some point in time he can tell people to either upgrade to some version containing who knows what or make their own fork. With him calling all the shots, who knows what could happen to the network (if XT = Bitcoin).

[iCEBREAKER]

What is it with dictators and checkpoints anyway?  Hearn (not theymos) is the "epitome of authoritarianism."  

Interestingly they come here complaining that theymos is censoring things (which he is not), but they support Hearns who proposed the idea of a benevolent dictator.  

I still don't understand why people do not go with BIP 100 or 102 and our problems would be solved for now. Hearn and Gavin have caused so much unnecessary drama and problems for nothing.

Since Hearn likes the idea of a 'bitcoin dictator' that can make the final decisions regardless of consensus, it can't be good. At some point in time he can tell people to either upgrade to some version containing who knows what or make their own fork. With him calling all the shots, who knows what could happen to the network (if XT = Bitcoin).

It's also interesting when they confuse moderation and censorship, then vote to hide theymos' responses explaining their mistake.   

Which Downfall sub would be funnier?

A.  Hearn, in his Fuherbunker, being told XT is stuck at ~2% of the network, with no propensity for future growth
B.  Theymos, in his Fuherbunker, being told some Gavinista sock (IE Hearn) has created a BitcoinXT subreddit (with all of 350 users), thus defeating his mighty attempt at censorship

I vote for the first one.   

[LiteCoinGuy]

Mike cant make a final decisions regardless of consensus. At the moment he supports a good idea that has value. dont look at the people, look at the idea/code.

He cant force people to use something else in the future. people will have the same choice as today with core and xt.

[kelsey]

If you haven't noticed, attempting to deflect attention from the PLA's authoritarian censorship onto other issues has no effect on me, and only makes you look defensive.   

you're losing me here, what exactly would i be being defensive about?

[iCEBREAKER]

If you haven't noticed, attempting to deflect attention from the PLA's authoritarian censorship onto other issues has no effect on me, and only makes you look defensive.   

you're losing me here, what exactly would i be being defensive about?

I made a point about the distinction between what theymos does (moderation) and what Mainland China does (censorship).

Your reaction was to start ranting about "terrorists...iraq...weapons of mass destruction...osama...[and]...the world trade center."

That rant was a defensive reaction, to defend censorship in Mainland China and/or smoothie the drama queen's mischaracterization of moderation.

[fryarminer]

Gentlemen, this is proof that Bitcoin Core is centralized.

Exactly how is this proof of anything? I'm just a unknown entity who is stating his opinions. I have no relations with anybody from Core nor XT.

You're advocating the policy of moving XT topics to the alt section. It is clear that the only reason why that is done is to limit the freedom of people to choose whether they want the core dev's version or the larger block's version. The fact that the core dev's are even playing this game is because they want full control.

The fact that you are advocating the "policy", shows that you are (maybe subconsciously) happy with the centralized system.

If it were decentralized the powers that be would let the miners decide.

[Lauda]

You're advocating the policy of moving XT topics to the alt section. It is clear that the only reason why that is done is to limit the freedom of people to choose whether they want the core dev's version or the larger block's version. The fact that the core dev's are even playing this game is because they want full control.

The fact that you are advocating the "policy", shows that you are (maybe subconsciously) happy with the centralized system.

You're taking things out of context. I was telling others the current policy of the forum. I never stated that I fully approve nor disprove this, nor am I going to comment it. I just said that people aren't mistaken if they want the thread moved due to that being the policy.
Also your post contains wrong information as Hearn is the one trying to centralize the system with a dictatorship and the core developers are working on a increase (BIP100 and 102).

If it were decentralized the powers that be would let the miners decide.

This 'let X,Y,B decide' won't work in such a case. It is much easier to manipulate people that do not know the full story of something (it's being done on a global scale right now, is it not?). Exactly what percentage of users checks the commits on github, 2-3% maybe or even less? There you have it.

Update: Several corrections and additions.

Ok, I stand corrected and retract my statement. Sorry.

No problem, all is well.