The 2.0 throwdown thread

[Sebastien256]

The potential for that chart to be a broad, objective comparison of some of the main 2.0 projects is there, but as it stands it is extremely biased towards NXT to the point where it's not even trying to be subtle about it (only green ticks and under construction in the NXT side...really now?), in addition a cursory glance shows glaring factually incorrect segments.

Please see the third post of this topic. I had already post the chart, but I mention the fact that it was only the Nxt collumn that was up to date. Nxt community will update the chart using the data in the current topic.

For your information, yes Nxt has every "green ticks" and "under construction ticks" for each element mention in the chart.

Nxt is NOT working on Smart Contracts, Automated Transactions, Multisig, Instant Transactions, Anonymous Transactions.

Aye...

1. smart contract is already all written from Cfb, it need to be put into the Nxt code, however there is other priority for the moment.
2. AT, well it depend on how you see this (burst and crypti are Nxt clone, afaik). But I would agree that for now it is not a priority. So that tick could be remove, I give you that one  
3. multisig, yes they are working on that for whole account for next hard fork 1.7, now currently only support multisig for individual transaction with two-phase transaction.
4. anonymous transaction, yes coin suffling for NXT and MS is planned for next hard fork 1.7.
5. Instant transaction, I know a Nxt devs is working on this. but I can't remember his name. I would have to dig in the forum.

[Skerberus]

Qora has asset exchange including asset to asset trading pairs.

[hiddensphinx]

Is there going to be a marketplace for Ether in the future?

[Jean-Luc]

Nxt supports atomic cross-chain exchange using the pay on reveal secret method, as described here:
http://upcoder.com/11/atomic-cross-chain-exchange/#pay-on-reveal-secret

It was implemented and released in production in the 1.5 release:
https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/issues/224/proposal-new-tx-type-pay-on-reveal-secret

Automated transactions, which Nxt does not support, is one way of implementing atomic cross-chain exchange, but as you can see certainly not the only one.

Nxt does not support anonymous transactions, but it will support Coin Shuffling as described in this paper: http://crypsys.mmci.uni-saarland.de/projects/CoinShuffle/coinshuffle.pdf , here is the description of the Nxt implementation of it: https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/issues/135/coin-shuffling-monetary-system (note that it will work not only for Monetary System coins but for NXT itself too). The work as described in this issue is completed, what remains to be done is the so called "blame phase", making sure a rogue shuffle participant who tries to sabotage the shuffle is penalized for it. This will be released in 1.7.

[Passion_ltc]

The potential for that chart to be a broad, objective comparison of some of the main 2.0 projects is there, but as it stands it is extremely biased towards NXT to the point where it's not even trying to be subtle about it (only green ticks and under construction in the NXT side...really now?), in addition a cursory glance shows glaring factually incorrect segments.

Please see the third post of this topic. I had already post the chart, but I mention the fact that it was only the Nxt collumn that was up to date. Nxt community will update the chart using the data in the current topic.

For your information, yes Nxt has every "green ticks" and "under construction ticks" for each element mention in the chart.

Nxt is NOT working on Smart Contracts, Automated Transactions, Multisig, Instant Transactions, Anonymous Transactions.

Aye...

1. smart contract is already all written from Cfb, it need to be put into the Nxt code, however there is other priority for the moment.
2. AT, well it depend on how you see this (burst and crypti are Nxt clone, afaik). But I would agree that for now it is not a priority. So that tick could be remove, I give you that one 
3. multisig, yes they are working on that for whole account for next hard fork 1.7, now currently only support multisig for individual transaction with two-phase transaction.
4. anonymous transaction, yes coin suffling for NXT and MS is planned for next hard fork 1.7.
5. Instant transaction, I know a Nxt devs is working on this. but I can't remember his name. I would have to dig in the forum.

Nxt supports atomic cross-chain exchange using the pay on reveal secret method, as described here:
http://upcoder.com/11/atomic-cross-chain-exchange/#pay-on-reveal-secret

It was implemented and released in production in the 1.5 release:
https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/issues/224/proposal-new-tx-type-pay-on-reveal-secret

Automated transactions, which Nxt does not support, is one way of implementing atomic cross-chain exchange, but as you can see certainly not the only one.

Nxt does not support anonymous transactions, but it will support Coin Shuffling as described in this paper: http://crypsys.mmci.uni-saarland.de/projects/CoinShuffle/coinshuffle.pdf , here is the description of the Nxt implementation of it: https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/issues/135/coin-shuffling-monetary-system (note that it will work not only for Monetary System coins but for NXT itself too). The work as described in this issue is completed, what remains to be done is the so called "blame phase", making sure a rogue shuffle participant who tries to sabotage the shuffle is penalized for it. This will be released in 1.7.

1. & 2. Smart contracts/AT: Jean-Luc I think it was you, who mentioned that it will not go into the source. With that as the current standpoint you can't say that it's being worked on.

3. Ok.

4. Coin Shuffling is not anonymous transactions. It's another feature.

5. Instant transactions were planned by Matthew C., he is now at Burst. So no, it's not being worked on.


Crypti is NOT a Nxt clone. It's written from scratch, written in Javascript/Node.js. Uses DPoS for consensus.

[Sebastien256]

...
4. Coin Shuffling is not anonymous transactions. It's another feature.
...
5. Instant transactions were planned by Matthew C., he is now at Burst. So no, it's not being worked on.
...
Crypti is NOT a Nxt clone. It's written from scratch, written in Javascript/Node.js. Uses DPoS for consensus.

Thank you for these clarification. I see how good it is the current topic.  

On anoter note,
Imo, coinsuffling is a kind anonymous transaction. So it is good that the chart currently working by jwinterm can add some text to described the feature with better detailed.

[Passion_ltc]

...
4. Coin Shuffling is not anonymous transactions. It's another feature.
...
5. Instant transactions were planned by Matthew C., he is now at Burst. So no, it's not being worked on.
...
Crypti is NOT a Nxt clone. It's written from scratch, written in Javascript/Node.js. Uses DPoS for consensus.

Thank you for these clarification. I see how good it is the current topic. 

On anoter note,
Imo, coinsuffling is a kind anonymous transaction. So it is good that the chart currently working by jwinterm can add some text to described the feature with better detailed.

I agree. It's a cool feature. I just don't like it, when people bend reality to let their cryptos look better.

[Jean-Luc]

To focus on features already implemented and in production:

Voting System:

Nxt has that since 1.5, http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Voting_System , and it is being used to make decisions with voting weighted by NXT balance such as this one: https://nxtportal.org/polls/2751730409036026521 , or by asset balance: https://nxtportal.org/polls/14305781929821355952 . Several other voting models (by account, by MS currency, with or without minimum balance restriction) are supported.

Qora also has a voting system, but as far as I know votes can only be counted based on Qora account balance, the Nxt one is more flexible.


Prunable messages and data:

Nxt allows publishing up to 42 kbytes of data on the blockchain, as either a message, or tagged data (i.e. with additional searchable metadata fields). It deals with the problem of blockchain bloat by making those data prunable: http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/The_Nxt_API#Prunable_Data , http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/The_Nxt_API#Tagged_Data_Operations .

Qora also has the feature to allow publishing arbitrary data on the blockchain, and can present this data as webpage. However I don't know if Qora supports pruning of such data, if their design is that every node needs to store every piece of data published forever, they will have a scalability problem.

Unlike Qora, Nxt does not currently provide a way to view such data as a webpage in the default client, however third party applications such as FreeBird are being developed which use the prunable data feature to store tweets or blogs in a decentralized manner: https://nxtforum.org/freebird/ .

 

[jwinterm]

OK, updated table a bit and added Crypti.

Some of the feedback I got on reddit re: Ethereum and here from Passion_ltc re: Crypti makes it seem like these two systems are extremely flexible, and everything can (and will?) be implemented at some point by someone. So, I'm going to try and reserve the pending label for things that are actually being worked on at the moment, and credit the person, repo, company that is working on them. For instance, I think I need to change the x for asset exchange to pending on ethereum and credit Caktux:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3h66zg/please_help_me_understand_what_makes_eth_unique/cu4lp6d

If I've got something wrong, please post it here or send me a PM. I'm really trying to get everything correct, but it's a bit trickier than I expected o_O

Also, I'm thinking of removing NuShares as it seems to only be a market peg tool with NuBits.

[Skerberus]

There are still some things wrong regarding Qora:
Encrypted messaging already possible
Asset Exchange possible ( afaik the only one that has asset to asset trading pairs)
decentralized applications possible

[jwinterm]

There are still some things wrong regarding Qora:
Encrypted messaging already possible
Asset Exchange possible ( afaik the only one that has asset to asset trading pairs)
decentralized applications possible

Possible means it exists right now, or could exist sometime in the future? Is someone working on them if they don't exist?

[Skerberus]

There are still some things wrong regarding Qora:
Encrypted messaging already possible
Asset Exchange possible ( afaik the only one that has asset to asset trading pairs)
decentralized applications possible

Possible means it exists right now, or could exist sometime in the future? Is someone working on them if they don't exist?

exists right now and can be already used!

[jwinterm]

There are still some things wrong regarding Qora:
Encrypted messaging already possible
Asset Exchange possible ( afaik the only one that has asset to asset trading pairs)
decentralized applications possible

Possible means it exists right now, or could exist sometime in the future? Is someone working on them if they don't exist?

exists right now and can be already used!

OK, updated. Could you provide some links to examples of the decentralized apps? That's not something I've heard of in the context of the NXT family.

[Skerberus]

There are still some things wrong regarding Qora:
Encrypted messaging already possible
Asset Exchange possible ( afaik the only one that has asset to asset trading pairs)
decentralized applications possible

Possible means it exists right now, or could exist sometime in the future? Is someone working on them if they don't exist?

exists right now and can be already used!

OK, updated. Could you provide some links to examples of the decentralized apps? That's not something I've heard of in the context of the NXT family.

First of all Qora is not part of the Nxt family . Nxt is really awesome, but it has nothing to do with Qora, Qora is completly written from scratch and is no clone or sibling of Nxt.
Regarding decentralized applications:
We introduced NameStorage in the last release which e.g. allows users to create interactive websites of arbitrary length on the blockchain. Through api (and that way through any blockchain website) you can write and read arbitrary data to the blockchain and use this as data storage for any application. If you combine this with automated transactions you have the possibility to create an own decentralized interactive crowdfunding website or make e.g. an own interface for ACCT! These are just examples the possibilities are endless.
Currently this is a little cumbersome, the next release will make this even easier and will also have some nice examples build by us.
I have already created an own send money panel, which is completly decentralized (so if someone copies the code of the website to his own website this will work too!).
That panel can be seen here and will be available in next version:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1015379.msg12089928#msg12089928

[jwinterm]

There are still some things wrong regarding Qora:
Encrypted messaging already possible
Asset Exchange possible ( afaik the only one that has asset to asset trading pairs)
decentralized applications possible

Possible means it exists right now, or could exist sometime in the future? Is someone working on them if they don't exist?

exists right now and can be already used!

OK, updated. Could you provide some links to examples of the decentralized apps? That's not something I've heard of in the context of the NXT family.

First of all Qora is not part of the Nxt family . Nxt is really awesome, but it has nothing to do with Qora, Qora is completly written from scratch and is no clone or sibling of Nxt.
Regarding decentralized applications:
We introduced NameStorage in the last release which e.g. allows users to create interactive websites of arbitrary length on the blockchain. Through api (and that way through any blockchain website) you can write and read arbitrary data to the blockchain and use this as data storage for any application. If you combine this with automated transactions you have the possibility to create an own decentralized interactive crowdfunding website or make e.g. an own interface for ACCT! These are just examples the possibilities are endless.
Currently this is a little cumbersome, the next release will make this even easier and will also have some nice examples build by us.
I have already created an own send money panel, which is completly decentralized (so if someone copies the code of the website to his own website this will work too!).
That panel can be seen here and will be available in next version:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1015379.msg12089928#msg12089928

Coolyo Thanks for the clarification!

[erok]

You should remove scam coins and add fair launch coins.

imo btc 2.0 consists of the following:

aeon - mobile friendly version of xmr lightweight as hell cryptonite pow which would be good for iot chips and low power embedded devices. I am buying this all day long right now and have been since smooth took over.

sdc - sdt conversion erasing history an important step in obfuscation along with ring sig and other goodies; the market will create a real world use for it and boom goes the dynamite. ShadowGo is out of control neato as well. I buy this regularly

maybe eth if they actually create a better miner and wallet... but since it only costs 18c to mine right now and they sell for 1.50... that should show you that no one wants to mine it because it is a pain in the ass to mine and move. but as more eth hits the market the saturation will be too tempting for the wallets holding millions and people will dump. the curse of an ICO that even printed 12 million late in the game. I was hoping for a revolution and got a rotten vagina instead. bought it at .002 because i saw a pump coming and dumped at .007. This coin has big money in it so riding the fomo/whale waves isn't horrible if you are safe about it. ride the momentum.

xcp - the burn is concerning. not exactly sure that burning btc really does anything for anyone but I think that if genesis actually drops and the card game blows up and some other stuff happens it could be absolutely nuts. people will build on eth because it is easier but people will build on xcp because it wasn't a scam from the get like eth. But maybe eth was just rushed to launch because they ran out of money.

maid - I want maid to work so bad just for the rollback/refund/safety abilities of this coin and they have some dm plans? this one is one to watch but not buy yet.

also i dont think nxt is ever going to gain any real traction.

[Sebastien256]

@jwinterm

I'm not sure what you mean by decentralized applications. In my understanding, asset exchange, voting system, marketplace, messaging, etc, are all example of decentralized applications.

Do you mean decentralized applications made by "third party" on top of the system in question?

[jwinterm]

@jwinterm

I'm not sure what you mean by decentralized applications. In my understanding, asset exchange, voting system, marketplace, messaging, etc, are all example of decentralized applications.

Do you mean decentralized applications made by "third party" on top of the system in question?

Yea, I guess that just seemed to be the big selling point of ETH (and XCR), so I tacked it on there. But, it seems like having automated transactions is essentially the same thing. So, maybe I should remove that line, or change it to something else. I'm very open to suggestions (and explanations).

[Jean-Luc]

Applications such as Nxt FreeMarket http://nxtfreemarket.com/ , the Multigateway http://multigateway.org/ , and the FreeBird decentralized twitter I previously mentioned run on top of the Nxt blockchain, using its API to store and retrieve data. The MGW does use a few servers run by operators, the others are fully decentralized, as far as I know.

[jwinterm]

You should remove scam coins and add fair launch coins.

imo btc 2.0 consists of the following:

aeon - mobile friendly version of xmr lightweight as hell cryptonite pow which would be good for iot chips and low power embedded devices. I am buying this all day long right now and have been since smooth took over.

sdc - sdt conversion erasing history an important step in obfuscation along with ring sig and other goodies; the market will create a real world use for it and boom goes the dynamite. ShadowGo is out of control neato as well. I buy this regularly

maybe eth if they actually create a better miner and wallet... but since it only costs 18c to mine right now and they sell for 1.50... that should show you that no one wants to mine it because it is a pain in the ass to mine and move. but as more eth hits the market the saturation will be too tempting for the wallets holding millions and people will dump. the curse of an ICO that even printed 12 million late in the game. I was hoping for a revolution and got a rotten vagina instead. bought it at .002 because i saw a pump coming and dumped at .007. This coin has big money in it so riding the fomo/whale waves isn't horrible if you are safe about it. ride the momentum.

xcp - the burn is concerning. not exactly sure that burning btc really does anything for anyone but I think that if genesis actually drops and the card game blows up and some other stuff happens it could be absolutely nuts. people will build on eth because it is easier but people will build on xcp because it wasn't a scam from the get like eth. But maybe eth was just rushed to launch because they ran out of money.

maid - I want maid to work so bad just for the rollback/refund/safety abilities of this coin and they have some dm plans? this one is one to watch but not buy yet.

also i dont think nxt is ever going to gain any real traction.

I like aeon, but there is at the moment no use of the limited scripting capabilities of cryptonote afaik. By 2.0 I mean capable of decentralized exchanges, markets, applications, etc.

I'm not a fan of shadowcoin, and not sure about whether the market is really decentralized. I believe it is in wallet, but is it just run on a server somewhere?

If you want to call eth a scam, I'd say shadow distribution was more of a scam. I'd rather see an ICO followed by PoW than ninja mine all coins in a few days and then go to PoS, but this thread isn't about casting judgment on distribution methods, just comparing coins.

Maid seems like vaporware to me. I'll be happy to add it if it ever comes off test network.

I agree re: nxt, but it was really the first 2.0, so should definitely be in the table.