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Author Topic: Not Bitcoin XT  (Read 21847 times)
TooDumbForBitcoin
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August 22, 2015, 02:42:17 PM
 #121

As far as I can see the argument is already over if the anti-XT crowd feels it is so certain to lose any fair contest that it will resort to tactics like this.





If these tactics affect the contest, the contest didn't have fairness built in.  Back to the drawing board for the mercantile mercenaries.



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RealBitcoin
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August 22, 2015, 07:00:58 PM
 #122

Please tell me guys this XT crap will go away and die.

I dont want to see my money evaporating because some morons that want to divide & conquer , sabotage, bitcoin.

I hope the rest of the devs and supporters figure it out that this XT will just destroy bitcoin.

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August 22, 2015, 07:34:18 PM
 #123

Please tell me guys this XT crap will go away and die.

I dont want to see my money evaporating because some morons that want to divide & conquer , sabotage, bitcoin.

I hope the rest of the devs and supporters figure it out that this XT will just destroy bitcoin.

Maybe XT wasn't created to help bitcoin but to destroy it? If Coinmarketcap data is correct, on 7 days bitcoin lost 15% of the value... Somebody needs to stop this fight before all the altcoins and bitcoin itself will be considered dead or with zero value!

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August 22, 2015, 07:36:23 PM
 #124

Please tell me guys this XT crap will go away and die.

I dont want to see my money evaporating because some morons that want to divide & conquer , sabotage, bitcoin.

I hope the rest of the devs and supporters figure it out that this XT will just destroy bitcoin.

Maybe XT wasn't created to help bitcoin but to destroy it? If Coinmarketcap data is correct, on 7 days bitcoin lost 15% of the value... Somebody needs to stop this fight before all the altcoins and bitcoin itself will be considered dead or with zero value!

Indeed, bitcoin might have been infiltrated by dark forces, who use the good old D & C tactics to sabotage it.

And since the community is not very united in it's goal, it is likely to succeed. People are always following their own incentives and cannot unite, not even in front of danger.

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August 22, 2015, 07:42:07 PM
 #125

Please tell me guys this XT crap will go away and die.

I dont want to see my money evaporating because some morons that want to divide & conquer , sabotage, bitcoin.

I hope the rest of the devs and supporters figure it out that this XT will just destroy bitcoin.

Maybe XT wasn't created to help bitcoin but to destroy it? If Coinmarketcap data is correct, on 7 days bitcoin lost 15% of the value... Somebody needs to stop this fight before all the altcoins and bitcoin itself will be considered dead or with zero value!

Indeed, bitcoin might have been infiltrated by dark forces, who use the good old D & C tactics to sabotage it.

And since the community is not very united in it's goal, it is likely to succeed. People are always following their own incentives and cannot unite, not even in front of danger.

But anyway, i think that who is running all this is for sure somebody that hates bitcoin because if wanted to made something good it could made another bubble and not this non stop drop that i still have problems to see how actually happens, anyway i noticed that not only bitcoin got the XT version but even litecoin, if you go to altcoincalendar is visible that a coin called Litecoin XT was launched (Maybe same dev, group or some random guy who wants to join the demolition of bitcoin)

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August 22, 2015, 07:51:34 PM
 #126

What interesting times we live in.

https://www.altcoincalendar.info/coins/1816-LXT
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August 22, 2015, 07:57:21 PM
 #127

What interesting times we live in.

https://www.altcoincalendar.info/coins/1816-LXT

Yeah, if the crisis made from Bitcoin XT continues, even more people will start making XT version of every altcoin that exist only to made more price drops. Is possible that both dev teams doesn't try to find something in common? if it continues who knows what will happen... For now i don't know what to do about my original bitcoins, maybe i will invest them on some coin that are still green (for Coinmarketcap there are almost 50 that are on positive). Anyway the fact of Litecoin XT is that only 200 coins are public, for sure is just a random guy that wanted his\her piece of cake on this disaster.

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August 22, 2015, 07:59:01 PM
 #128

Please tell me guys this XT crap will go away and die.

I dont want to see my money evaporating because some morons that want to divide & conquer , sabotage, bitcoin.

I hope the rest of the devs and supporters figure it out that this XT will just destroy bitcoin.

Maybe XT wasn't created to help bitcoin but to destroy it? If Coinmarketcap data is correct, on 7 days bitcoin lost 15% of the value... Somebody needs to stop this fight before all the altcoins and bitcoin itself will be considered dead or with zero value!

Indeed, bitcoin might have been infiltrated by dark forces, who use the good old D & C tactics to sabotage it.

And since the community is not very united in it's goal, it is likely to succeed. People are always following their own incentives and cannot unite, not even in front of danger.

But anyway, i think that who is running all this is for sure somebody that hates bitcoin because if wanted to made something good it could made another bubble and not this non stop drop that i still have problems to see how actually happens, anyway i noticed that not only bitcoin got the XT version but even litecoin, if you go to altcoincalendar is visible that a coin called Litecoin XT was launched (Maybe same dev, group or some random guy who wants to join the demolition of bitcoin)

Well I`m not a tech person, but even I can tell that if a new altchain is created that needs mining, will split the mining eventually.

A more friendly solution with internal paying like XAPO, Coinbase, Bitpay, etc could be achieved for small TX. Yet they insist with forking the protocol which is bullshit.

I also think that increasing the block size is also much better.

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August 22, 2015, 08:00:49 PM
 #129

What interesting times we live in.

https://www.altcoincalendar.info/coins/1816-LXT

Yeah, if the crisis made from Bitcoin XT continues, even more people will start making XT version of every altcoin that exist only to made more price drops. Is possible that both dev teams doesn't try to find something in common? if it continues who knows what will happen... For now i don't know what to do about my original bitcoins, maybe i will invest them on some coin that are still green (for Coinmarketcap there are almost 50 that are on positive). Anyway the fact of Litecoin XT is that only 200 coins are public, for sure is just a random guy that wanted his\her piece of cake on this disaster.

I dont know there is about at 80% correlation between all altcoins vs bitcoin.

So if bitcoin goes to 0 then all altcoins will more or less follow. Although I already know a few safe and innovative altcoins that dont need XT, i dont really want to lose Bitcoin, as i consider it the only real currency so far.

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August 23, 2015, 03:22:39 AM
 #130

Currently at least ~20% of XT nodes are PseudoNodes.
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August 23, 2015, 03:36:22 AM
 #131

Angry  As far as I can see the argument is already over if the anti-XT crowd feels it is so certain to lose any fair contest that it will resort to tactics like this.   Cry

If these tactics affect the contest, the contest didn't have fairness built in.  Back to the drawing board for the mercantile mercenaries.

CRYddit knows that, he's just ATM too butthurt to concede such a fair (and obvious) point of fact.   Tongue


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whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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August 23, 2015, 03:38:05 AM
 #132

Please tell me guys this XT crap will go away and die.

I dont want to see my money evaporating because some morons that want to divide & conquer , sabotage, bitcoin.

I hope the rest of the devs and supporters figure it out that this XT will just destroy bitcoin.

This XT crap will go away and die.  It's already dead (or, thanks to NotXT, in a Schroedinger superposition of dead-alive) but hasn't stopped moving yet.  Enjoy the lulz this zombie fork provides while it lasts.  We'll look back and laugh at the XT Menace, someday.   Grin


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"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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August 23, 2015, 05:24:44 AM
 #133

Please tell me guys this XT crap will go away and die.

I dont want to see my money evaporating because some morons that want to divide & conquer , sabotage, bitcoin.

I hope the rest of the devs and supporters figure it out that this XT will just destroy bitcoin.

Maybe XT wasn't created to help bitcoin but to destroy it? If Coinmarketcap data is correct, on 7 days bitcoin lost 15% of the value... Somebody needs to stop this fight before all the altcoins and bitcoin itself will be considered dead or with zero value!

If we reach the point with Bitcoin Core where we have small blocks that are all full, the price of bitcoin is also going to drop. At least XT has an actual, working solution for moving forward.
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August 23, 2015, 05:54:39 AM
 #134


Wait, i can't follow you now, 20% of the XT nodes aren't real or are from the same pc? in this case XT is full of people on despair....

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August 23, 2015, 06:36:41 AM
 #135

Please tell me guys this XT crap will go away and die.

I dont want to see my money evaporating because some morons that want to divide & conquer , sabotage, bitcoin.

I hope the rest of the devs and supporters figure it out that this XT will just destroy bitcoin.

Maybe XT wasn't created to help bitcoin but to destroy it? If Coinmarketcap data is correct, on 7 days bitcoin lost 15% of the value... Somebody needs to stop this fight before all the altcoins and bitcoin itself will be considered dead or with zero value!

If we reach the point with Bitcoin Core where we have small blocks that are all full, the price of bitcoin is also going to drop. At least XT has an actual, working solution for moving forward.

Why would the price drop if the blockssize increases (or even if it becomes full).

A high velocity of money (tons of transactions) is indicative of high demand for money, thus the price increase is correlated with the transaction volume.

Bitcoin`s price has no way but to rise longterm.

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August 23, 2015, 08:28:19 AM
 #136


Wait, i can't follow you now, 20% of the XT nodes aren't real or are from the same pc?

Yep, for a short time 20% (peaked at ~30%) of all XT nodes were really PseudoNodes.  These nodes were controlled by one person, who has since switched them off.  See the link for more details.
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August 23, 2015, 08:42:51 AM
 #137


Wait, i can't follow you now, 20% of the XT nodes aren't real or are from the same pc?

Yep, for a short time 20% (peaked at ~30%) of all XT nodes were really PseudoNodes.  These nodes were controlled by one person, who has since switched them off.  See the link for more details.


Thanks for this, you found a combination of words I've been looking for.

Quote
P2P means that the network should only get stronger as long as people are using contributing nodes.

Some people believe the last stage of Access-Verify-Amplify is "better left to the so called power user."   Roll Eyes


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"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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August 23, 2015, 09:09:53 AM
 #138

The whining conspiracy fudsters and sidecoiners need new arguments, because there is choice now:

"This XT patch is literally and only BIP101 integrated in Core. It already exist and you are free to run it as we speak."
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159727.msg12216801#msg12216801
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August 23, 2015, 02:08:22 PM
 #139

But then what happens if a lot of xt miners are also producing blocks to the point that the forked chain had enough halshpower to survive?
That's the point.

You can't REALLY know how much power is in each side BEFORE the fork, only AFTER the fork.

What will happen if we get that 75% of blocks were mined with those bits setted but, in reality, the hashpower is 49.3% and 50.7%. Goodbye Bitcoin.

This fork COULD BE a mess, maybe not, but could be in the scenario that I'm describing. This is REALLY necessary?, it is too much risk mate. We should stay with Bitcoin Core and make a new version of it, not building ANOTHER client to fork the blockchain.

In fact not.

If the network split in half the hashpower over the two branches,  the confirmation times double for both.
The transactions would be the same (apart for the new coins mined) on both chains.
The problem would be for the 1MB, because if the mean blocksize was 500KB before the fork, it now would be > 1 MB after. For both.
Larger the mean block size before the fork, worse the effect on the 1MB branch.

Now, one chain would be able to confirm all transactions anyway. The other would not.
Immediately there would be a backlog of transactions in the 1MB branch but not in the 8 MB branch.
This would last about 4 weeks before resetting the difficulty.

I assume, due to uncertainty, exchanges and payment processors would not process any coin not present in both branches.
So you would have miners starving for 2 or more weeks at least or until one brach die out and all are mining on the surviving branch.

The asymmetry would force payment processors and exchanges to rely more and more to the 8 MB branch, because it confirm valid transactions faster.
Not only, they would need to pay less fees for transactions on the fastest and more on the slower (I assume they would be forced, for compatibility, to try to spend the same amount on both).

If a SPAM attack (or "stress test") happened at the time, the 1 MB chain will choke under an enormous backlog and increasing fee to have a transaction confirmed in a short time.
Effectively, an attacker could have a large transaction (to itself) confirmed in the 8MB branch but not in the 1MB branch (use a really small or no fee at all). Then send out a large quantity of transactions on the 1MB branch (they would be invalid in the 8MB branch and dropped immediately) clogging the 1MB nodes and forcing 1MB users to pay more to have their transactions confirmed faster.

This scenario explain the reasons waiting to implement the BIP 101 or any other increase of the blocksize or any WORKING method to increase the transactions volume will end making a stronger case for implementing the BIP 101 or some other increase.
As the mean block size increase approaching 800 KB,  payment processors and exchanges will increasingly pressure miners to support a block increase and will reduce their requirements to support the winning branch. They could start pricing the coins from blocks supporting BIP 101 (or whatever) differently than the default blocks.
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August 23, 2015, 03:01:17 PM
 #140

But then what happens if a lot of xt miners are also producing blocks to the point that the forked chain had enough halshpower to survive?
That's the point.

You can't REALLY know how much power is in each side BEFORE the fork, only AFTER the fork.

What will happen if we get that 75% of blocks were mined with those bits setted but, in reality, the hashpower is 49.3% and 50.7%. Goodbye Bitcoin.

This fork COULD BE a mess, maybe not, but could be in the scenario that I'm describing. This is REALLY necessary?, it is too much risk mate. We should stay with Bitcoin Core and make a new version of it, not building ANOTHER client to fork the blockchain.

In fact not.

If the network split in half the hashpower over the two branches,  the confirmation times double for both.
The transactions would be the same (apart for the new coins mined) on both chains.
The problem would be for the 1MB, because if the mean blocksize was 500KB before the fork, it now would be > 1 MB after. For both.
Larger the mean block size before the fork, worse the effect on the 1MB branch.

Now, one chain would be able to confirm all transactions anyway. The other would not.
Immediately there would be a backlog of transactions in the 1MB branch but not in the 8 MB branch.
This would last about 4 weeks before resetting the difficulty.

This is where a good dynamic scheme, implemented in Core to the XT fork schedule, could provide a solution.

Your scenario would play out oppositely, the 8 MB chain could end up overwhelmed with all sorts of attacks, while the dynamically sized chain would scale above 8 MB to handle it.

Vires in numeris
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