Poll result: NXT is a proper cryptocurrency

[BitUsher]

but still not as efficient or secure, generally, than C++.

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57643/focus=57918 (Linus Torvalds)

http://whydoesitsuck.com/cpp-sucks-for-a-reason/

http://flyx.org/2014/04/24/cpp_sucks/

It is extremely easy to create a list of criticisms of any programming language with many valid concerns. The point is to understand the unique strengths and weaknesses of each.

"Efficient" point may be valid if you compare Java against C++ compiled for the targetted processor (otherwise JIT will win in most cases).

Compiled JIT has improved java where typically it will perform almost as good as or equally as c++ in many cases. C++ tends to be slightly more efficient.

"Secure" point is wrong, security is one of the main contracts of Java.

Sandbox or not , exploits tend to find a way around this contract ... time and time again.

Java is typically fine ... overall ... but high level languages wouldn't be my first choice for fintech programs.

[TPTB_need_war]

BitUsher, afaik the security vulnerabilities all exist in Java libraries and not in the JVM (virtual machine). Please stop FUDing by implying that the broken web app sand box applies to JVM in all use cases.

C++ sucks because it introduces so many complexities and inconsistencies of invariants. Besides subclassing is an anti-pattern. Do not do it. That is not a subjective judgement. This is a well known fact amongst serious programming language designers.

Agreed the best is to write low level crypto routines in C or assembly language (but not C++!).

For higher level logic in your software, writing it in a lower level language will just introduce more bugs by making your semantics more obscured.

I already wrote all this and am forced to repeat myself again. The principle of functional programming is "do not repeat yourself".

Edit: also the web applet sandbox issues (which I stated above are irrelevant to other use cases of the JVM) are not even the most numerous security holes:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2610267/security/patching-has-failed--so-it-s-time-for-java-to-go.html

Interestingly, Oracle or Java's previous owners shouldn't get all the blame. Heck, most of the successful exploitations are exploitations of already patched vulnerabilities. Oracle released a patch and begged you to deploy it, and still you didn't. That hesitation, more than any other factor, is responsible for the bad rap Java is earning. It's not like Java is the program with the most exploitable bugs in a given year. That distinction belongs to Google Chrome, Mozilla Firefox, and Apple iTunes.

[box0214]

If there are java vulnerabilities wouldnt that affect a lot if banking services?

[leipebarry]

but still not as efficient or secure, generally, than C++.

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57643/focus=57918 (Linus Torvalds)

http://whydoesitsuck.com/cpp-sucks-for-a-reason/

http://flyx.org/2014/04/24/cpp_sucks/

It is extremely easy to create a list of criticisms of any programming language with many valid concerns. The point is to understand the unique strengths and weaknesses of each.

"Efficient" point may be valid if you compare Java against C++ compiled for the targetted processor (otherwise JIT will win in most cases).

Compiled JIT has improved java where typically it will perform almost as good as or equally as c++ in many cases. C++ tends to be slightly more efficient.

"Secure" point is wrong, security is one of the main contracts of Java.

Sandbox or not , exploits tend to find a way around this contract ... time and time again.

Java is typically fine ... overall ... but high level languages wouldn't be my first choice for fintech programs.

Well sounds pretty boring to the mainstream.
They just want to know if they can pay with their NXT in shops.

[BitUsher]

If there are java vulnerabilities wouldnt that affect a lot if banking services?

It does, Fraud is rampant with fiat currencies and traditional banking. Much of it is dealt with afterthefact when audited and/or investigated. That is why KYC is so important, and why psuedo-anomynous cryptocurrencies need to be much more secure , because you cannot reverse the transaction or freeze/seize the accounts after the fact like with traditional banking.

Well sounds pretty boring to the mainstream.
They just want to know if they can pay with their NXT in shops.

Agreed, and why most alts won't go anywhere as they don't have the network effect.

[Mickeyb]

So you guys are saying to me that a coin like NXT, which has resolved many core issues, have integrated tons of new features, has a functional lightweight wallet, has all sorts of great and helpful features, is just worth a trash?

You gotta be kidding me guys, it is the most innovative coin in the top 10. Fuck Ethereum, it doesnt even have a GUI wallet. NXT is probably the 2nd best after Bitcoin.

It might as well be 2nd best but the price sure as hell doesn't reflect that. Problem with NXT is that it comes from a little basement. It does have a technology and the future in my opinion, but all of this will take a while.

Ethereum on the other side doesn't have a GUI wallet but has very promising technology. It also has a lot of money for development, and big support from some big players. If the devs can deliver what they promised, Ethereum will be huge.

Ethereum and NXT are also quite different, they are more complementing each other than that they are competitors.

Bitcoin, Ethereum  and NXT from the shadow are my 3 picks.

[bcdev]

@Mickeyb:
There is extreme difference between Ethereum and NXT in terms of efficiency. With only 21BTC of crowdfounding, NXT was able to create a blockchain, a wallet and asset system within few months. The fact that with an IPO of 18 million $ Ethereum doesn't have a gui wallet one year later is very alarming. They will end up like MasterCoin if they keep being so inefficient.
As far as founding goes, SuperNET had an IPO of > 1 million $. Surely, it's much less then Ethereum, but comparing the efficiency of both teams...

As for my picks, I'd say: Bitcoin, NXT, MaidSafe and BitcoinDark.

Why MaidSafe? I like their goal, a decentralized internet. Unfortunately I didn't have time to read their technical papers, I trust they know what they are doing. [Yep, it's a disclaimer.]

[Mickeyb]

@Mickeyb:
There is extreme difference between Ethereum and NXT in terms of efficiency. With only 21BTC of crowdfounding, NXT was able to create a blockchain, a wallet and asset system within few months. The fact that with an IPO of 18 million $ Ethereum doesn't have a gui wallet one year later is very alarming. They will end up like MasterCoin if they keep being so inefficient.
As far as founding goes, SuperNET had an IPO of > 1 million $. Surely, it's much less then Ethereum, but comparing the efficiency of both teams...

As for my picks, I'd say: Bitcoin, NXT, MaidSafe and BitcoinDark.

Why MaidSafe? I like their goal, a decentralized internet. Unfortunately I didn't have time to read their technical papers, I trust they know what they are doing. [Yep, it's a disclaimer.]

Thanks for your advice!

Look, I admire the work ethic of NXT community. I think that this is the hardest working community out there, by far. And this will have to pay off eventually. I also think that the tech is amazing. But you know, even that sometimes is not enough to succeed.

Ethereum on the other side has huge hype around it. Many big companies are in connection with it, let's name only the IBM an that's enough. This hype is what crypto community is missing at the moment, even Bitcoin. Yes, there is no GUI wallet, but even NXT had huge problems with this and it took a while until you didn't get one, and one man by the name of Weshley was responsible for that!

But Ethereum does have a working network at the moment, huge hype, and they have just decided to cut in their inflation rate. Total supply should be capped at 100 million max. This was my problem with Ethereum, unlimited dilution. So these 3 things are enough for me to give it a try.

Just like NXT community work ethics is enough for me to believe in NXT.

You know, one thing is sure, if we would match Ethereum resources and hype with NXT's work ethic and rolling out of features, this would be match in heaven.

Unfortunately nothing is perfect in this world!

[bcdev]

I agree with everything you said. I forgot how ugly first NXT wallet was.

I think that Ethereum right now is in a bubble region and needs to deflate. It might be a good investment some day.
As for IBM/Samsung ADEPT price boost nothing is set in stone. One day Overstock pulled the rug from under Counterparty. The same can easily happen here. Or the opposite can happen and Ethereum can be adopted by multiple giant companies... I'd say owning ETH right now is gamble, not investment.

[TPTB_need_war]

If there are java vulnerabilities wouldnt that affect a lot if banking services?

It does, Fraud is rampant with fiat currencies and traditional banking.

There are bugs in everything. It is called software. You apparently ignored my upthread quote stating there are more exploits discovered annually in the browsers than in the Java web applet. And for banking software running on servers, we are not even referring to the applet sandbox, but rather to bugs in Java libraries.

Crypto code should not be using libraries. It should be using tightly well combed code.

[box0214]

They all are good platforms. Just which one will the big boys adopt?

[DecentralizeEconomics]

They all are good platforms. Just which one will the big boys adopt?

Some people don't care and dare I say don't want NXT to be adopted by the "big boys" because they know this corporate adoption will lead to the loss of decentralization of the system.

[bcdev]

They all are good platforms. Just which one will the big boys adopt?

Probably none of them. They'll create their own centralized blockchains.

[EvilDave]

Or the big boys will create their centralised blockchains using Nxt 'White Label' blockchains......

Either way, the Nxt core and the main blockchain will remain decentralised.

[r0ach]

Bitcoin, Ethereum  and NXT from the shadow are my 3 picks.

Bitcoin is designed to fail:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1176835.0;all

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171109.0

Ethereum:

- There is no way you can predict anything about Ethereum because it's consensus mechanism and other attributes aren't even finalized.  It's like saying "the pizza tastes good" after you order it before they even make it.

- The one thing you can predict is that Blockchain 3.0, which will probably be what this guy's post describes below, will require the best consensus mechanism, and best scaling system for the global dex and auxiliary services on top of it.  "Turing complete transactions" is not as important as the previous criteria, which is why Bitshares will probably slaughter Ethereum in the long run:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18434.0.html

NXT

- Once stakers have to pool their stake, which is inevitable, or the network doesn't function, the system basically becomes a far less efficient, less distributed version of DPoS, so I consider NXT currently a dead end system as described by problems under the standard proof of stake section in this post:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171109.0

[elyas772]

NXT is scam
im sure it

[DecentralizeEconomics]

NXT

- Once stakers have to pool their stake, which is inevitable, or the network doesn't function, the system basically becomes a far less efficient, less distributed version of DPoS, so I consider NXT currently a dead end system as described by problems under the standard proof of stake section in this post:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171109.0

What a bold-faced lie.  Get out of here you wannabe corporate fascist.

[EvilDave]

NXT

- Once stakers have to pool their stake, which is inevitable, or the network doesn't function, the system basically becomes a far less efficient, less distributed version of DPoS, so I consider NXT currently a dead end system as described by problems under the standard proof of stake section in this post:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171109.0

And where is the pressure for Nxt forgers (stakers, as r0ach puts it) to pool their stakes ?
There is no extra forging power to be gained by combining stakes: running 10x 1 million NXT stakes gets you just as much income as running one 10 million NXT stake.
And, there is no economy of scale with Nxt forging equipment: a RaspPi2 will forge just as efficiently as the latest quad-core rig.

The costs of running a Nxt node are by design very low (as are the rewards  ) in order to ensure that Nxt will remain decentralised as it scales up.
 

[box0214]

can someone list out some of the pros/cons of nxt vs bitshares. i dont think its documented anywhere.

[EvilDave]

We do have a couple of comparison projects running, showing all the gen 2.0 systems and their features:

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/help-design-a-comparative-matrix-for-presentation-and-nxt-wiki/

But really, it's NXT all the way: we're having dinner round at Barclays house tonight:
https://events.barclays.com/ehome/131090/298522/?categoryid=1101963

and CoinOutlet have discovered the joys of actually using Nxt:
http://coinoutletatm.com/
https://youtu.be/FN0gUIVYu2s?t=10m36s

and jl777 may have come up with a cheap and effective coinshuffle via InstantDex, even before Nxts own implementation of Coin Shuffling  :
https://nxtforum.org/nxtservices-releases/jumblr-decentralized-bitcoin-mixer-seeking-marketing-lead-and-also-gui-dev/
If anyone wants a job.....