bitcoin is centralised

[franky1]

before i explain how, i want you to understand the difference between centralised and controlled.

centralised is where there is one main value indicator that everyone uses to make trading fair for both parties. in fiat terms the value "use to" represent gold value. which banks decided.

the banks decide value and governments control how we use it with laws and taxes.

luckily there is no 'control' but there is a centralised value for bitcoin

so back to the point. bitcoin is centralised but not controlled. i say this as the huge majority of people trading base the value of bitcoin on MTGox prices. so lets treat mtgox like the national reserve.. just without the gold inside.... lol

imagine a bitcoin world where people did not trade based on a FIAT value conversion but based on TIME. i said it in another thread but il say it here,

in medieval times a butcher would spend half an hour preparing a succulent beef steak, and would trade it for half an hour with a prostitute or for 2 flagons of ale.

in modern terms without thinking about the FIAT value imagine a days wage allowed you to go out in the evening to a bar, get so drunk you score with the ugliest woman you see and get a fast food meal at the end of the night.

again forgetting about fiat value. imagine we traded based on how many bitcoins we mine in one day being able to get that same evenings experience, or thinking that buying that gpu is worth 5 days of bitcoin labour.

reply with thoughts

[notme]

before i explain how, i want you to understand the difference between centralised and controlled.

centralised is where there is one main value indicator that everyone uses to make trading fair for both parties. in fiat terms the value "use to" represent gold value. which banks decided.

the banks decide value and governments control how we use it with laws and taxes.

luckily there is no 'control' but there is a centralised value for bitcoin

so back to the point. bitcoin is centralised but not controlled. i say this as the huge majority of people trading base the value of bitcoin on MTGox prices. so lets treat mtgox like the national reserve.. just without the gold inside.... lol

imagine a bitcoin world where people did not trade based on a FIAT value conversion but based on TIME. i said it in another thread but il say it here,

in medieval times a butcher would spend half an hour preparing a succulent beef steak, and would trade it for half an hour with a prostitute or for 2 flagons of ale.

in modern terms without thinking about the FIAT value imagine a days wage allowed you to go out in the evening to a bar, get so drunk you score with the ugliest woman you see and get a fast food meal at the end of the night.

again forgetting about fiat value. imagine we traded based on how many bitcoins we mine in one day being able to get that same evenings experience, or thinking that buying that gpu is worth 5 days of bitcoin labour.

reply with thoughts

I don't use MtGox price.  Nice try though.

[franky1]

I don't use MtGox price.  Nice try though.

it doesnt have to be mtgox, but i bet u use fiat as your indicator of value

i dont use U.S 'reserve' for my real world financial indicator.
im british.

my point being is ignore fiat as your tool for value. what would bitcoin be like if we just used time as value

[FreeMoney]

I don't use MtGox price.  Nice try though.

it doesnt have to be mtgox, but i bet u use fiat as your indicator of value

i dont use U.S 'reserve' for my real world financial indicator.
im british.

my point being is ignore fiat as your tool for value. what would bitcoin be like if we just used time as value

So when I need to sell some for rent instead of doing [fiat rent]/[fiat price of BTC]=[number of BTC I need to sell] what calc should I do?

[SchmalzTech]

I don't use MtGox price.  Nice try though.

it doesnt have to be mtgox, but i bet u use fiat as your indicator of value

i dont use U.S 'reserve' for my real world financial indicator.
im british.

my point being is ignore fiat as your tool for value. what would bitcoin be like if we just used time as value

So when I need to sell some for rent instead of doing [fiat rent]/[fiat price of BTC]=[number of BTC I need to sell] what calc should I do?

^this
I was just going to say something similar as FreeMoney, though a bit less eloquently.  I think that our perceived value of the fiat currency changes over time as we all have a general idea of what we can buy with it. It's just a handy basis of comparison.

[franky1]

So when I need to sell some for rent instead of doing [fiat rent]/[fiat price of BTC]=[number of BTC I need to sell] what calc should I do?

eg my rent is 25% my real world income.

so if i paid using bitcoin id pay 25% of my bitcoin income.. id probably only get a shoe box of an apartment from my current earnings but if i wanted a luxury apartment id have to give myself a pay rise (get more rigs running)

I was just going to say something similar as FreeMoney, though a bit less eloquently.  I think that our perceived value of the fiat currency changes over time as we all have a general idea of what we can buy with it. It's just a handy basis of comparison.

understandable but imagine a world where fiat never existed to use as a comparison.. imagine the possibilities

[FreeMoney]

So when I need to sell some for rent instead of doing [fiat rent]/[fiat price of BTC]=[number of BTC I need to sell] what calc should I do?

eg my rent is 25% my real world income.

so if i paid using bitcoin id pay 25% of my bitcoin income.. id probably only get a shoe box of an apartment from my current earnings but if i wanted a luxury apartment id have to give myself a pay rise (get more rigs running)

I was just going to say something similar as FreeMoney, though a bit less eloquently.  I think that our perceived value of the fiat currency changes over time as we all have a general idea of what we can buy with it. It's just a handy basis of comparison.

understandable but imagine a world where fiat never existed to use as a comparison.. imagine the possibilities

wait you work for fiat?

[franky1]

wait you work for fiat?

not sure if i should take that as a comedical comment that i work for the car manufacturer Fiat.
or the fact that my real life job in medical industry continues and i have not yet took the leap into making crypto my full time job..

crypto can be done via PC anywhere, so why retire early limiting income. this is my retirement fund for a luxury life but being 29 im still to young to want to retire.. ask me again in 6 years.

[FreeMoney]

wait you work for fiat?

not sure if i should take that as a comedical comment that i work for the car manufacturer Fiat.
or the fact that my real life job in medical industry continues and i have not yet took the leap into making crypto my full time job..

crypto can be done via PC anywhere, so why retire early limiting income. this is my retirement fund for a luxury life but being 29 im still to young to want to retire.. ask me again in 6 years.

Actually I'm just confused about what you want. I guess you earn fiat and think of it in terms of time and want us who earn bitcoins to do the same?

[franky1]

Actually I'm just confused about what you want. I guess you earn fiat and think of it in terms of time and want us who earn bitcoins to do the same?

im not saying i want anything, never said i wanted bitcoin earners to do anything..

im just saying to imagine the possibilities - negatives and positives of if we treated bitcoin the way the guys in the medieval times traded before centralisation (the gold value/fiat value) came around.

im talking hypothetically imagine, and discuss. not take action lol so relax, no one can control how you do things, but talking is free..

imagine the possibilities or ramifications of never having fiat to compare to.

movie intime.. great movie, yes totally different world to the fiat world... but without the having to wait till ur 25 to get ur currency and no 1 years of free earnings when u turn 25 lol

[FreeMoney]

wait you work for fiat?

not sure if i should take that as a comedical comment that i work for the car manufacturer Fiat.
or the fact that my real life job in medical industry continues and i have not yet took the leap into making crypto my full time job..

crypto can be done via PC anywhere, so why retire early limiting income. this is my retirement fund for a luxury life but being 29 im still to young to want to retire.. ask me again in 6 years.

Actually I'm just confused about what you want. I guess you earn fiat and think of it in terms of time and want us who earn bitcoins to do the same?

im not saying i want anything, never said i wanted bitcoin earners to do anything..

im just saying to imagine the possibilities - negatives and positives of if we treated bitcoin the way the guys in the medieval times traded before centralisation (the gold value/fiat value) came around.

im talking hypothetically imagine, and discuss. not take action lol so relax, no one can control how you do things, but talking is free..

imagine the possibilities or ramifications of never having fiat to compare to

Assuming there is still some market we'll just go see what valuable things we can get for a bitcoin. There is nothing special about fiat except that it is in wide use now.

[franky1]

seeing what you can get for a bitcoin, is still leaving others to dictate price. im talking about true self control.

'bartering'/negotiating

eg u go to a garage sale the person is selling things, they cant be bothered to price everything to its value elsewhere in the world so they just give it a fair value in their opinion to how much they want in their hand at the end of the day. you come along and see something you like. you dont just pay the displayed price like what most 'consumers' have been trained to do. you negotiate a price that satisfies both of you.
or

you see a luxurious apartment and u immediately want to move in and you believe its worth half your weekly earnings just for that luxury
or
for instance if someone said i will clean your house for 5 weeks. u wont think about minimum wage amounts ud think about how much peace of mind it will give u and how much more you can do with your day without having to clean, and ud base the price of their service on that as well as how qualified they are and how good of a job they do.


now thats true financial freedom without centralisation involvement.

[mobile4ever]

seeing what you can get for a bitcoin, is still leaving others to dictate price. im talking about true self control.

'bartering'/negotiating

eg u go to a garage sale the person is selling things, they cant be bothered to price everything to its value elsewhere in the world so they just give it a fair value in their opinion to how much they want in their hand at the end of the day. you come along and see something you like. you dont just pay the displayed price like what most 'consumers' have been trained to do. you negotiate a price that satisfies both of you.
or

you see a luxurious apartment and u immediately want to move in and you believe its worth half your weekly earnings just for that luxury
or
for instance if someone said i will clean your house for 5 weeks. u wont think about minimum wage amounts ud think about how much peace of mind it will give u and how much more you can do with your day without having to clean, and ud base the price of their service on that as well as how qualified they are and how good of a job they do.


now thats true financial freedom without centralisation involvement.

Bitcoin would need to be a household term with the accompanying mindshare to do what you are asking. Its possible.

Still, I think bitcoin needs more people who think like you do.

[da2ce7]

[johnyj]

Labor based value theory has been replaced by supply and demand since 20th century, and it has its reason. Now you do not need to look somewhere else except the market price of BTC

[Come-from-Beyond]

bitcoin is centralised but not controlled

It will be controlled if we allow things like http://dedecentralizationofbitcoin.wordpress.com/ to happen.

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

Don't want to be a grammar nazi, but perhaps OP should learn to use capital letters, and less space between sentences.

[benjamindees]

Labor based value theory has been replaced by supply and demand since 20th century, and it has its reason.

And that reason is the industrial revolution, and the realization of the fact that human labor is relatively worthless in comparison to resources and capital.

[TeslaUa]

I think I can see OP point. Measuring money with another money is kinda silly. So I track BTC purchase power instead. It is calculated as (BTCUSD*UAHUSD)/DieselPriceUAH. UAH being another sort of colored paper rectangles.

[Boussac]

Labor based value theory has been replaced by supply and demand since 20th century, and it has its reason.

And that reason is the industrial revolution, and the realization of the fact that human labor is relatively worthless in comparison to resources and capital.

The law of supply and demand applies only in an ideal world of price setting;

In the real world trades are twisted by a thing called "bargaining power", the result of regulatory capture, accumulation of capital, cartels, etc..