[ANN][SHIFT] The New Web | IPFS/Phantom | ShiftNrg.org Hosted Decentralized!

[gembitz]

In a time where goverments voting about banning memes for "copyright reasons" (EU article 11&13) decentraliced & censorship resistent solutions like this project are needed most! I think SHIFT is on the right way

 

weeeee

[ANDREW 555]

Listing on IDAX (1 July)
https://coindar.org/en/event/shift-shift-listing-on-idax-11130

[CanErik]

Hi;

Looks like we're about to reach the bottom. Guess what will happen than... Cross finger.

Kind regards

[TOM47]

New Mainnet Update Live. The block reward has officially decreased! The revision was both determined and finalized with the consensus of the delegates. Furthermore, #IDAX has opened deposits and withdrawals of #SHIFT. On July 4th at 14:00 (UTC+8) SHIFT/BTC will be open for trade
https://twitter.com/ShiftNrg/status/1014080792157450240

[Bazzzil86]

Listing on IDAX (1 July)
https://coindar.org/en/event/shift-shift-listing-on-idax-11130

]
You have wrong dates, here is right:

https://tothemoon.live/?IsPast=False&Page=1&Month=0&Year=0&CoinTypes=Shift+%28SHIFT%29&SortBy=0 have to be today

[Mith19]

Anyways, it is live now on IDAX!

[anks]

good to see that shift is now listed to a new Exchange

[muleroaa]

Congrats on listing on IDAX. Not bad, 38th in 24h volume today, good place to be!

[diesel69]

Hi! Site https://dpostools.com/SHIFT does not work?

[Mith19]

Guxy, check the news:

http://www.shiftnrg.org/news/news-item/8

Things are getting serious! :-)

[honghaisea]

Congrats on listing on IDAX. Not bad, 38th in 24h volume today, good place to be!

Although there are new exchange, but the price of most coins is not good now, so the new exchange is not playing a very positive role now, it is better if it is active in the hot market.

[Daddy123]

Hello guys.

I Need more info about delegates. I unvote 60% of all  my delegates because they dont pay anything.  I got only 41 from 101.

Can sm1 give me his voting list. I really dont understand why more than 50% dont pay, its ridiculous. Should we do smthing with this problem?!

Thanks

[ttookk]

Hello guys.

I Need more info about delegates. I unvote 60% of all  my delegates because they dont pay anything.  I got only 41 from 101.

Can sm1 give me his voting list. I really dont understand why more than 50% dont pay, its ridiculous. Should we do smthing with this problem?!

Thanks

This post actually makes me a bit angry. What's "ridiculous" is the fact that you think the delegates should pay you anything.

Originally, the delegate system was not supposed to have pools. Instead, voters should vote for delegates who were actively helping the development of the project, such as devs, public speakers, ambassadors and so on. This would further the adoption and therefore ultimately rise the value of the whole system, including the holdings of the voters.

This system was perverted by two things:

The first thing is that a lot of the delegates have so much voting power on their own that they don't need you or anyone to stay active. Why should they share their revenue with you then? I agree that this is a problem, but it is inherent to the system. You could change the system to a split vote system like Ark has, I would be all for it, but that is a bandaid at best.

The second thing is the emergence of pools.
Before pools, potential delegates made long statements about what they were doing to do with the money they earned, funding development, giving out grants, attending conferences as ambassadors and so on. This was completely beat down by the pools, which simply stated "we will share 80% with you" and that was it. Who cares about future development when they can make hard cash now, right?

And this is the current climate DPoS systems exist in. This is not exclusive to Shift, mind you.

[Gaben.]

Hello guys.

I Need more info about delegates. I unvote 60% of all  my delegates because they dont pay anything.  I got only 41 from 101.

Can sm1 give me his voting list. I really dont understand why more than 50% dont pay, its ridiculous. Should we do smthing with this problem?!

Thanks

This post actually makes me a bit angry. What's "ridiculous" is the fact that you think the delegates should pay you anything.

Originally, the delegate system was not supposed to have pools. Instead, voters should vote for delegates who were actively helping the development of the project, such as devs, public speakers, ambassadors and so on. This would further the adoption and therefore ultimately rise the value of the whole system, including the holdings of the voters.

This system was perverted by two things:

The first thing is that a lot of the delegates have so much voting power on their own that they don't need you or anyone to stay active. Why should they share their revenue with you then? I agree that this is a problem, but it is inherent to the system. You could change the system to a split vote system like Ark has, I would be all for it, but that is a bandaid at best.

The second thing is the emergence of pools.
Before pools, potential delegates made long statements about what they were doing to do with the money they earned, funding development, giving out grants, attending conferences as ambassadors and so on. This was completely beat down by the pools, which simply stated "we will share 80% with you" and that was it. Who cares about future development when they can make hard cash now, right?

And this is the current climate DPoS systems exist in. This is not exclusive to Shift, mind you.

I agree that there should be no expectation of (direct monetary) payment for voting for people.

With the influx of the newer users over the last few years, there seems to be a gap in especially fundamental understanding of block chain projects.

Arguably, the proposed method dpos provides of bribing new users to get involved in literally the least involved way by voting has very few beneficial aspects. It reeks of entitlement and unfortunately the reality of staying relevant these days more often than not typically employs this methodology.

While I think it's helpful for crypto projects where the typical development involves only merging the most recent upstream developments from the project it was likely forked from in some way or another, with projects that have become as focused as Shift this often becomes a crutch for a busted leg that's long since healed.

Fortunately in Shifts case, much of the actual programming work needed to satiate the entitled poor was already in place so all it's taken to keep them quiet was to put the spoon back in when it fell out, and just unvote the heathen not paying them, change names then vote them back in. Point is is that this hasn't been much of a draw on the scarce Shift development resources available due to someone else aready did the work, so instead they could mostly focus on putting out something at least mildly interesting.

Whether it remains with Shift or goes into something else is beyond my ability to accurately predict for the moment. I'm currently guessing it will be staying here, after watching for the last year or so.

Specifically, I mention this because they have been mentioning for a while now a new core that hasn't been explicitly mentioned as not being lisk, but this also hasn't been said that it won't be either.

[ttookk]

(…)

I agree that there should be no expectation of (direct monetary) payment for voting for people.

With the influx of the newer users over the last few years, there seems to be a gap in especially fundamental understanding of block chain projects.

Arguably, the proposed method dpos provides of bribing new users to get involved in literally the least involved way by voting has very few beneficial aspects. It reeks of entitlement and unfortunately the reality of staying relevant these days more often than not typically employs this methodology.

While I think it's helpful for crypto projects where the typical development involves only merging the most recent upstream developments from the project it was likely forked from in some way or another, with projects that have become as focused as Shift this often becomes a crutch for a busted leg that's long since healed.

Fortunately in Shifts case, much of the actual programming work needed to satiate the entitled poor was already in place so all it's taken to keep them quiet was to put the spoon back in when it fell out, and just unvote the heathen not paying them, change names then vote them back in. Point is is that this hasn't been much of a draw on the scarce Shift development resources available due to someone else aready did the work, so instead they could mostly focus on putting out something at least mildly interesting.

Whether it remains with Shift or goes into something else is beyond my ability to accurately predict for the moment. I'm currently guessing it will be staying here, after watching for the last year or so.

Specifically, I mention this because they have been mentioning for a while now a new core that hasn't been explicitly mentioned as not being lisk, but this also hasn't been said that it won't be either.

Heh, I like how you write

Yes, you have good points there. It is very interesting to see that DPoS or some derivate of it is adopted by a lot of big projects, most notably Eos, but I thnk Tron has something similar. They did this despite the fact that Lisk has shown for months, if not a year by now, that DPoS' original premise of mass participation in the consensus mechanism can be easily broken. Honestly, I consider DPoS a failed experiment at this point. Shift itself is still quite intact, but I think that is mostly due to it being a smallish project with little reason for serious politics and attacks.

Reading about a new core, whatever that is supposed to be, makes me somewhat hopeful. I mean, Shift was an Ethereum clone, then went Lisk style DPoS after being attacked; this would be yet another hard fork (and most likely a swap), but I suppose this would also be a good thing in the long run. Maybe that's just the way to go: your basis is broken, instead of trying to fix it, swap it for something else.

I really don't know what to make of it… I've come to like Shift and its team, but I've grown out of the whole DPoS thing. Maybe it's time to look at Decreds ticket system…

By the way, thinking a bit more about the original post, I've come to the conclusion that I've been too hard on the poster. See, I don't like this whole pool thing, but that was just a natural development of the system. The whole idea of blockchain is built upon the concept of channeling the selfishness and greed of individuals through a giant prisoners dilemma, making them work together for their mutual benefit. The system itself needs to be resilient against bad actors and "unconventional" use. The code is law, what is possible within the boundaries of the code is also allowed. If it is not resilient against that, you need to change the system.

[RedBull8787]

https://www.shiftnrg.org/news/news-item/9

Play with Phantom on TestNet.

wallet.testnet.shiftnrg.org

create a new wallet.

select application

Click Phantom

Click Open anyways

Navigation pane on left will show you file storage options.

Enjoy!

Big things coming.

[mxshvdv]

Phantom dApp Quickstart Guide | Shift Project

[bluejam]

https://www.shiftnrg.org/news/news-item/9

Play with Phantom on TestNet.

wallet.testnet.shiftnrg.org

create a new wallet.

select application

Click Phantom

Click Open anyways

Navigation pane on left will show you file storage options.

Enjoy!

Big things coming.

This is absolutely mindblowing. 
I should buy more SHIFT.

[syesraypb]

so long till now  ,but i like this coin so it would be great if it make me more money 

[ttookk]

https://www.shiftnrg.org/news/news-item/9

Play with Phantom on TestNet.

wallet.testnet.shiftnrg.org

create a new wallet.

select application

Click Phantom

Click Open anyways

Navigation pane on left will show you file storage options.

Enjoy!

Big things coming.

This is actually pretty cool. And super simple.

Are there any insights into how the payment model will look like? As in, who gets paid (I assume those providing storage and delegates), by which metric and so on.