Bitcoin Vs Bitcoin XT (is there any difference to the average person)

[keepdoing]

I'm just an average guy.  I own a few bitcoins.  I run a vacation rental business and am thinking about starting a Bitcoin acceptance program so that people can pay for their stays using Bitcoin, and I basically do my part to move Bitcoin acceptance along as well.  It is my way of dabbling my investment toe into what I think is the future trend of things, basically getting a jump on the curve.   My ultimate believe has been that Bitcoin will continue to grow, leap the various hurdles, and eventually the fiat currency gang (all gov't central banks) will abandon ship as their scams implode.  Bitcoin will end up being a central "currency" / "financial glue" that ties all together on a global scale.  And I do think that "They" will ultimately take some control via regulation - but that is a necessary evil.  That part I am prepared for.  But this whole infighting about block size is even scarier and more confusing to this unlearned layman.

So - Part 1 of my Question is....
If I own a Bitcoin (1 BTC), and they do this new 8mb block and call it Bitcoin XT, then what happens to my 1 Bitcoin?  It's worth about $254 today.  Does the Bitcoin XT "patch" create a "New" type of Bitcoin, totally separate from the 1 BTC I have, and therefore my 1 BTC becomes a totally separate "Coin Platform" (i.e Litecoin, Dogecoin) that trades separately from the new Bitcoin XT?  (which effectively means my BTC value starts tanking - eventually to zero -in my opinion.  Or on the day of the "Patch Decision" and Bitcoin XT is implemented, will the whole thing be totally transparent to ME (a simple and lowly Bitcoin holder) - and while the underlying technology and blockchain may change a bit, software and miners and hardware processes may change, and new features or abilities to use my 1 BTC may be enhanced - MY ACTUAL 1 BTC will simply move along happily with the evolution.

OR will this create a New Bitcoin "money" so to speak?  And my old 1 BTC will become obsolete, and for example when I go to my Coinbase Wallet, I will see a message offering me the opportunity to transfer my BTC funds into BTC-XT Coin?

I hope I am being clear here.  In short, should a current holder of BTC be worried that BTC is about to dissappear and be replaced by something new (i.e. BTC-XT) that trades totally separately, will have its own value etc.  And if so - will there be a mechanism in the system in which current BTC holders can migrate over, and if so, how much of a value haircut is foreseen.

Sorry - but I am just an average joe, and all these arguments and things sound scary.  Someone explain this in simple poor man's non-technical language.   Once I feel I sufficiently understand this aspect I'll ask part 2.

Peace - d

[lite]

Just simple answer you won't lose any of your Bitcoins. 1 Bitcoin will be 1 in Bitcoin XT.
You can find more detailed info here https://bitcoinxt.software/faq.html

[Lauda]

Well I'll really simplify this. Whether Coinbase is going to accept XT as a legitimate thread (if it comes to that), is up to them. As far as I know, the average user should not be worried. If XT ever reaches legitimate consensus, thus becoming the real Bitcoin, you do not have to worry.

Basically at the moment both Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin XT operate on the same chain (chain A, in this example). If (!) Bitcoin XT forks with the economic majority, then chain B will be created. Bitcoin Core will still operate on chain A, thus we will have two separate chains. If you had 1 BTC on chain A, you should also have 1 BTC on chain B (after the fork).
I'd recommend transferring your coins to an address to which you own the private keys to.

Just simple answer you won't lose any of your Bitcoins. 1 Bitcoin will be 1 in Bitcoin XT.
You can find more detailed info here https://bitcoinxt.software/faq.html

You've beat me to it. That information works too.

OP if you have any other questions, please free to ask me directly via PM.

[forlackofabettername]

Well, there is a realistic chance your investement could loose all value during the switchover. Then you'll have twice the amount of worthless coins, which is great too if you don't care about money. My advice: do not believe a word you read on these boards. Do your own research and due dilligence. These scum here are only calming everyone down so people don't panic. You'll hate these scum who try to calm you down when the red waterfalls come down... Be alert.

[meono]

Well, there is a realistic chance your investement could loose all value during the switchover. Then you'll have twice the amount of worthless coins, which is great too if you don't care about money. My advice: do not believe a word you read on these boards. Do your own research and due dilligence. These scum here are only calming everyone down so people don't panic. You'll hate these scum who try to calm you down when the red waterfalls come down... Be alert.

Are you talking about LaudM? I'm confused i thought you guys are on the same side .... you know "just bash BitcoinXT no matter what" side

 

[spjakob]

Well, I think others can describe the technical details better than me, but I can add one thing:

You can not talk about Bitcoin XT! You will be banned!     

This is the way theymos (who controls both this site and /r/bitcoin) exercise his control to promote his view on things...
Very sad when someone who is control of the majority of the information structures for bitcoin does things like this.

I have not made up my mind about xt, but I support it for now just because of this absurd censorship situation.

The only thing I know for sure is that the bitcoin community needs to find new ways to communicate, without censorship!

[ducatitalia]

I see two separate issues being addressed here.  One is the validity of each BTC.  The other is the value of each BTC.

I'm guessing there are quite a few threads addressing this already, so please do post links to answers.  Most of the discussion I've seen is technical, political and/or philosophical...rather than real world practical and logistical execution discussion for the average user.  Also, please correct and/or elaborate as I'm sure I've missed details as we piece this together...but the way I understand it...

Any Bitcoin Core created BTC pre-fork would continue to be valid on Bitcoin XT.  All BTC, be it from Core or XT would be valid on both chains, for as long as Core could maintain the capacity to handle the additional volume created by XT's increased blocksize.  But new BTC created once Core has reached it's max capacity would then only be identified and valid on XT.   At that point, sending a newly mined BTC to the older chain would simply no longer be recognized?  But sending a pre-fork BTC to the XT chain would always be valid and recognized.

The value question is completely separate.  The value of any BTC regardless of what chain its on can rise and fall based on myriad factors, not the least of which is the potential loss of trust in the network due to these and/or other changes.  One BTC from either chain would be worth one BTC--the question is simply which chain would recognize it based on it's date of creation.  The exchange rate value of any BTC will be determined by market forces, rather than technical ones.

[maokoto]

Great explanations. I now understand it for the first time 

As for Bitcoin adresses.... Would they still be operational if there is a fork? I mean, my coinbase adresses (for example) would still be working for XT if there is a fork?

[IDKwhatimdoing]

I see two separate issues being addressed here.  One is the validity of each BTC.  The other is the value of each BTC.

I'm guessing there are quite a few threads addressing this already, so please do post links to answers.  Most of the discussion I've seen is technical, political and/or philosophical...rather than real world practical and logistical execution discussion for the average user.  Also, please correct and/or elaborate as I'm sure I've missed details as we piece this together...but the way I understand it...

Any Bitcoin Core created BTC pre-fork would continue to be valid on Bitcoin XT.  All BTC, be it from Core or XT would be valid on both chains, for as long as Core could maintain the capacity to handle the additional volume created by XT's increased blocksize.  But new BTC created once Core has reached it's max capacity would then only be identified and valid on XT.   At that point, sending a newly mined BTC to the older chain would simply no longer be recognized?  But sending a pre-fork BTC to the XT chain would always be valid and recognized.

The value question is completely separate.  The value of any BTC regardless of what chain its on can rise and fall based on myriad factors, not the least of which is the potential loss of trust in the network due to these and/or other changes.  One BTC from either chain would be worth one BTC--the question is simply which chain would recognize it based on it's date of creation.  The exchange rate value of any BTC will be determined by market forces, rather than technical ones.

this response is one of the best

we have no way to influence the course of BTC  daor market strength

[DannyHamilton]

It is very difficult to get a straight answer in this forum with such a question.  You are likely to get some very passionate (and scary) sounding answers from individuals that are sure that they know exactly what the future will bring.  If you want to discuss this in a more relaxed and unbiased setting, feel free to send me a PM.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

It is very difficult to get a straight answer in this forum with such a question.  You are likely to get some very passionate (and scary) sounding answers from individuals that are sure that they know exactly what the future will bring.  If you want to discuss this in a more relaxed and unbiased setting, feel free to send me a PM.

I might take you up on that. I've got a number of questions that have been bugging me for a while. I haven't wanted to ask them for fear of looking like an idiot on the open forum. I may take time to send you (as a trusted, knowledgable, old school forum member) a PM tomorrow if that's ok.

[ducatitalia]

It is very difficult to get a straight answer in this forum with such a question.  You are likely to get some very passionate (and scary) sounding answers from individuals that are sure that they know exactly what the future will bring.  If you want to discuss this in a more relaxed and unbiased setting, feel free to send me a PM.

I might take you up on that. I've got a number of questions that have been bugging me for a while. I haven't wanted to ask them for fear of looking like an idiot on the open forum. I may take time to send you (as a trusted, knowledgable, old school forum member) a PM tomorrow if that's ok.

DannyHamilton is awesome.  He was one of the first people that made me feel welcome here--actually walked me through how to use a wallet!  Incredibly knowledgeable and patient with those truly interested in learning about Bitcoin.  I'll likely be reaching out to him again soon as well.  Thank you for continuing to be a trusted resource for our community DannyHamilton!

[jeffthebaker]

Your coins will still work on XT, but that shouldn't be your main concern.

I personally think 8MB blocks are superior to 1MB, but no way in hell do I think 8MB and a divided community is better than 1MB with an opportunity to compromise. When it comes down to it, the community is the most valuable variable to the value of Bitcoin. Without an active group of people believing in the value, Bitcoin will die. I see no reason to alienate certain members of the Bitcoin community when there is no pressing reason to do so.

[medUSA]

when I go to my Coinbase Wallet, I will see a message offering me the opportunity to transfer my BTC funds into BTC-XT Coin?

If you have your coins at Coinbase, you don't have the private keys to your address. So you are controlled by what Coinbase decides to do. Should they want to remain on the minority fork (extremely unlikely), your coins will be at risk because your coins will only exist one fork. You should start moving coins to your own address you have keys for, so your coins will exist on both forks and you can decide for yourself.

My ultimate believe has been that Bitcoin will continue to grow, leap the various hurdles, and eventually the fiat currency gang (all gov't central banks) will abandon ship as their scams implode.  Bitcoin will end up being a central "currency" / "financial glue" that ties all together on a global scale.

If you believe bitcoin will continue to grow, then there is nothing to worry. Keep your coins in your own wallet. Price will pick up after the blocksize debate is over.

[DannyHamilton]

I may take time to send you (as a trusted, knowledgable, old school forum member) a PM tomorrow if that's ok.

Sure.

You can send me an email too if you prefer.

[slaveforanunnak1]

not  immediately, but in the future, where we are back to sq one with only big companies mining and running nodes.

[keepdoing]

Your coins will still work on XT, but that shouldn't be your main concern.

I personally think 8MB blocks are superior to 1MB, but no way in hell do I think 8MB and a divided community is better than 1MB with an opportunity to compromise. When it comes down to it, the community is the most valuable variable to the value of Bitcoin. Without an active group of people believing in the value, Bitcoin will die. I see no reason to alienate certain members of the Bitcoin community when there is no pressing reason to do so.

Well, my belief is that my main concern IS, and should be, whether my bitcoins work.  Remember, as I said from the beginning - I'm just an average guy.  Average guys are just sheep trying to get through the day.  Earn enough bitcoin to buy a beer or a nice latte grande   And when I open my wallet I want to see the "money" there.  And when I slide my "card" I want the darn thing to work.

And like most average guys, I don't have time to download / run the entire core, and my simplistic brain is already hardwired to using a brick and mortar bank.  They handle all my security for me.  And my monies are insured.  Coinbase and Circle are the Bitcoin Version of those existing brick and mortar banks - so that is where I will go.  I have 2-Factor, and partial insurance - so I figure if I can get hacked and lose my bitcoin completely there - I will darn sure lose my bitcoin if I attempt to play junior technologist and do it on my own.   And further - like a good sheep, I want my grass cool and quick.  Too much security and it starts to seem too much like work.

I'm a sheep - and there are a lot more of me than there are of you.  The sheer mass and volume and stupidity of my herd is what drives the global world merrily along on it's economic course.  While I realize the fact that the wolves are trying to gain control over me - and that some of the "hidden" code of XT is well beyond simple block size increases - and is perhaps even the greater motive of the wolves - I and my huge flock of similar minded sheep are actually used to getting chomped on sometimes.  It's part of our nature that we accept the fact that we occassionally get slaughtered.  So we don't really care that we are being led to the slaughter..... as long as our Bitcoins work, and we can eat, drink and be merry - all the way to the slaughter, blissful in our intentional ignorance.

SO NOW back to an unresolved issue I still have.....

IF I were to buy or accept a Bitcoin, from a person or exchange that was running XT, and ultimately the whole XT rollout then subsequently fails - and the primary Chain remains "Core Centric" - will those Bitcoins that were acquired via an XT node operating Exchange be valid anymore on Core Chain?

To simplify.... is there a danger that a sloppy rollout could result in a window of time that one might need to be very cautious in how/where they acquire bitcoins?  And if so - how does an average sheep know what to look for to determine what might be a Bitcoin originating from an XT Chain??

Peace, -d

[LiteCoinGuy]

Quick ELI5:

Running XT at this time is equivalent with running Core. It's the same network, and the same Bitcoins. At some point in the future, if 75% mining majority is reached (but not before January 2016), the network will split whenever a miner creates a block larger than 1MB. This will not be accepted by Core unless they adopt a large blocks patch, but will be accepted by XT, and at this point there will effectively be two chains.

Running XT means that you will always be on the largest (75%+) chain, regardless of whether the fork actually happens or not. Running Core means that you will be left behind if a 75% majority is reached. Regardless of which version you run, coins will be safe (on both chains) as long as you acquired them prior to the fork, and for some time the chains will largely mirror each other.

[keepdoing]

Quick ELI5:

Running XT at this time is equivalent with running Core. It's the same network, and the same Bitcoins. At some point in the future, if 75% mining majority is reached (but not before January 2016), the network will split whenever a miner creates a block larger than 1MB. This will not be accepted by Core unless they adopt a large blocks patch, but will be accepted by XT, and at this point there will effectively be two chains.

OK - so, the simple answer FOR NOW - is that I have nothing (Zero% Chance) to worry about until possibly January 1 2016 in regards to how/where I acquire or store my bitcoins - in regards to this specific issue of whether they will continue to be accepted on one fork or another?  And I can go back to munching grass until slightly before that, at which point I may wish to monitor situation??

[manselr]

Your coins will still work on XT, but that shouldn't be your main concern.

I personally think 8MB blocks are superior to 1MB, but no way in hell do I think 8MB and a divided community is better than 1MB with an opportunity to compromise. When it comes down to it, the community is the most valuable variable to the value of Bitcoin. Without an active group of people believing in the value, Bitcoin will die. I see no reason to alienate certain members of the Bitcoin community when there is no pressing reason to do so.

If the XT fork was the same as Core but with a higher blocksize then there would be no controversy, the main problem is Gavin and Hearn are trying to pass a lot of shit in between the code with the excuse of the so called doomsday if we don't raise the blocksize limit about now.