Complete dezentralisation of mining possible ?

[doc12]

Lets assume bitcoin has 1 billion users in the future... would it be possible to mine on every device connected to the network, but just use a tiny amount of cpu time to save battery on a smartphone for example ??

With every device mining just 50mh and 1 billion users the hashrate would be higher then now.

To avoid big miners the mining revard could be split equally among all network partipiciants.

Is it complete bullshit ? Or is this somehow possible ?

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[achow101]

It is possible but be completely pointless since each participantt would be getting a few satoshis which would be worthless unless the price goes up a lot.

Also, unless they can figure out how to make small, low power and low heat chips, it would say through the battery quickly, literally burn a hole in your pocket, and destroy the life of your battery since heat destroys lithium ion batteries.

[doc12]

Hm I think 10 years from now even a smartphone cpu will calculate 50mh with under 1% cpu usage. So there would be almost no battery drain.

The reward is not intended to earn big amounts of money , but just compansate your energy consumption.

[mmeijeri]

It's not completely pointless at all! If sufficiently many users are willing to run a microminer at a small monetary loss, then it becomes practically impossible to run a commercial mining farm. I think we're quite far away from that scenario, but it's a theoretical possibility. I hope that eventually a hundred million people will care enough about decentralisation, and in that case it might happen.

[TPTB_need_war]

It is possible but be completely pointless since each participantt would be getting a few satoshis which would be worthless unless the price goes up a lot.

Unless they were mining for spending on microtransactions. But Bitcoin's PoW hash is too favorable to ASICs versus CPUs to make this viable as you say only a few satoshis in relative hashrate.

It's not completely pointless at all! If sufficiently many users are willing to run a microminer at a small monetary loss, then it becomes practically impossible to run a commercial mining farm. I think we're quite far away from that scenario, but it's a theoretical possibility. I hope that eventually a hundred million people will care enough about decentralisation, and in that case it might happen.

You astutely describe my design for eliminating commercial mining. But I don't rely on them caring about decentralization.

[mmeijeri]

You astutely describe my design for eliminating commercial mining. But I don't rely on them caring about decentralization.

So what incentive do you have in mind?

[TPTB_need_war]

You astutely describe my design for eliminating commercial mining. But I don't rely on them caring about decentralization.

So what incentive do you have in mind?

My white paper will be published.

[frankenmint]

You astutely describe my design for eliminating commercial mining. But I don't rely on them caring about decentralization.

So what incentive do you have in mind?

My white paper will be published.

I think of 21Inc.  Why?  Maybe free phones and laptop equipment that has the ability to run just the same or better than off the shelf components, except its given away freely. The terms and conditions of giving away would mandate that whenever plugged in it would run a mining program subroutine to mine for BTC.  That would eventually allow the devices, if used steadily to incrementally mine btc to be collected and perhaps distributed to the users of the phones, the employees of the phone company (in this case, 21inc), and the ability to pay vertical companies, such as quallcomm or intel to provide the chips for said subsidized phones.

[cocos]

Yes, it is possible if you change the mining method. Mining with bandwidth is a good idea for that.

[johoe]

It's not completely pointless at all! If sufficiently many users are willing to run a microminer at a small monetary loss, then it becomes practically impossible to run a commercial mining farm. I think we're quite far away from that scenario, but it's a theoretical possibility. I hope that eventually a hundred million people will care enough about decentralisation, and in that case it might happen.

You astutely describe my design for eliminating commercial mining. But I don't rely on them caring about decentralization.

If you can market it as a lottery, it may work.  If a billion people spend 10 $/month (on average; richer people spend more, poorer people less) for mining with the tiny chance of 1 in 20000 per year to win a block that pays them a million $, then commercial mining would mine at a loss, but people may still have the incentive to do that.  Especially if you tell them that these 10 $ are for a good purpose (to keep their Bitcoins safe).  This would also eliminate the need for mining pools.

Not sure if this works out, though.  Say half of the cost would be necessary to run a full node (otherwise you don't get decentralization) and the other half would be maintaining costs and electricity to run the hashing asics.  Any variation of prices for electricity or on the price of low power asics can mean that commercial miners make some profit (because they would only have the costs for the asics).  And 5$/month for a full node may not be enough.

[TPTB_need_war]

It's not completely pointless at all! If sufficiently many users are willing to run a microminer at a small monetary loss, then it becomes practically impossible to run a commercial mining farm. I think we're quite far away from that scenario, but it's a theoretical possibility. I hope that eventually a hundred million people will care enough about decentralisation, and in that case it might happen.

You astutely describe my design for eliminating commercial mining. But I don't rely on them caring about decentralization.

If you can market it as a lottery, it may work.

You've got one aspect of it. Of course Bitcoin's full node requirements are too onerous as you point out. If they aren't full nodes then you really don't have decentralization.

[tromp]

Unless they were mining for spending on microtransactions. But Bitcoin's PoW hash is too favorable to ASICs versus CPUs to make this viable as you say only a few satoshis in relative hashrate.

I designed Cuckoo Cycle to be a low-power PoW that spends the majority of runtime waiting
for random memory access latency (almost like Proof-of-Wait).

https://github.com/tromp/cuckoo offers several bounties for disproving its claims of being an ideal memory bound PoW.

It could easily run on smartphones while they charge overnight, with no fear of overheating.

The more people are able to mine (including botnets that will still be vastly outnumbered) and willing to do so at a loss, the less commercial mining can survive.

Bitcoin would have to introduce an alternative PoW very slowly;
p*CPU + (1-p)*ASIC where p rises from 0 to 1 (or 0.5) over many years.

[TPTB_need_war]

Hi tromp. Remember me? AnonyMint.

[tromp]

Hi tromp. Remember me? AnonyMint.

Sure. Who could forget:-?

[hexafraction]

Yes, it is possible if you change the mining method. Mining with bandwidth is a good idea for that.

No, as it will centralize it into the hands of tier-1 providers, network operators, etc. It also doesn't secure a blockchain like cryptographic PoW does.

[TPTB_need_war]

Hi tromp. Remember me? AnonyMint.

Sure. Who could forget:-?

Damn I thought I was flying below the radar.  

[doc12]

IMO the key to total decentralisation would be a mining revard system which pays equal reward to each miner, no matter how much hash the miner contributes. Of course there should be a minimum hashrate to get rewards.

This would kill the arms race, but I dont think its possible.

[tonycamp]

i dont say its anarkik idea but sure its very low rules of hieraquy that the world usually does rules i mean same equal pwoer for every one in number? seems a bit fuzzy.

[monsterer]

Complete decentralisation:

* Single transaction blocks
* Sending a transaction produces a block
* Only you can mine blocks you produce

There are a number of problems with this, but that is one way to have complete decentralisation.

[cocos]

Yes, it is possible if you change the mining method. Mining with bandwidth is a good idea for that.

No, as it will centralize it into the hands of tier-1 providers, network operators, etc. It also doesn't secure a blockchain like cryptographic PoW does.

No, centralization is impossible if you use a wifi mesh network like netsukuku, you can use your full speed of your wi-fi 150 or 300 Mbps to mine coins without limitation and providers.