Complete dezentralisation of mining possible ?

[AmyJayJahy]

Hahaha, well no i really think it's a great idea, but how to reach all those potential miners?
I could finnaly join the miners club :d

The BM1387 ASIC chip is capable of ca 0.07 TH/s and consumes roughly 5 watts.
You would need some 70 millions of those installed to match the current total network hash rate.  No need for billions or users.

Phone and PC/laptop manufacturers could add an ASIC to their boards for example.
Or dongles could be made (possibly combining OTP generation with mining killing two birds with one stone...).
Quite honestly the "price" to pay (ie device + energy costs) is well worth it !

I believe that the major issue would be rather on the network bandwidth / latency side of things.
I do not know if bitcoin has been designed with such a heavily decentralized mining in mind.

1 small thing, what about the full blockchain size of 120gb + does it need to be installed on my phone to mine?
Otherwise, with 2 billions of phone's sold world wide the is a potention in it 

[deuteragenie]

Hahaha, well no i really think it's a great idea, but how to reach all those potential miners?
I could finnaly join the miners club :d

The BM1387 ASIC chip is capable of ca 0.07 TH/s and consumes roughly 5 watts.
You would need some 70 millions of those installed to match the current total network hash rate.  No need for billions or users.

Phone and PC/laptop manufacturers could add an ASIC to their boards for example.
Or dongles could be made (possibly combining OTP generation with mining killing two birds with one stone...).
Quite honestly the "price" to pay (ie device + energy costs) is well worth it !

I believe that the major issue would be rather on the network bandwidth / latency side of things.
I do not know if bitcoin has been designed with such a heavily decentralized mining in mind.

1 small thing, what about the full blockchain size of 120gb + does it need to be installed on my phone to mine?
Otherwise, with 2 billions of phone's sold world wide the is a potention in it 

You can either prune the chain or use a pool.  I don't see this as a major issue.

[ranochigo]

The BM1387 ASIC chip is capable of ca 0.07 TH/s and consumes roughly 5 watts.
You would need some 70 millions of those installed to match the current total network hash rate.  No need for billions or users.

Honestly, I don't know why you have refused to listen to my comments on this. No phone or laptop will ever be able to support this. The power consumption is way too high. Less than an hour of mining and your battery will be drained.

Phone and PC/laptop manufacturers could add an ASIC to their boards for example.
Or dongles could be made (possibly combining OTP generation with mining killing two birds with one stone...).
Quite honestly the "price" to pay (ie device + energy costs) is well worth it !

What do you think ASIC chips are? LEGOS? Do you seriously think that anyone can smack a big ASIC chip into a device with a LOW TDP design in mind? The price for the design could very well cost more than several HUNDRED thousands and the phone would each cost more than $100 extra and not everyone would use it. Honestly, no one would buy it.

I believe that the major issue would be rather on the network bandwidth / latency side of things.
I do not know if bitcoin has been designed with such a heavily decentralized mining in mind.

Its not. Why the hell would it be? Decentralised mining will NEVER be realistic.

[monsterer2]

Complete decentralisation:

* Single transaction blocks
* Sending a transaction produces a block
* Only you can mine blocks you produce

There are a number of problems with this, but that is one way to have complete decentralisation.

this truly will be complete decentralization but achieving this far from reality but nothing is impossibly
i would like to be part a team that tries to take this venture

Read this paper (which discusses the technique), comment, lets talk about it:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1992827.0

[deuteragenie]

The BM1387 ASIC chip is capable of ca 0.07 TH/s and consumes roughly 5 watts.
You would need some 70 millions of those installed to match the current total network hash rate.  No need for billions or users.

Honestly, I don't know why you have refused to listen to my comments on this. No phone or laptop will ever be able to support this. The power consumption is way too high. Less than an hour of mining and your battery will be drained.

Phone and PC/laptop manufacturers could add an ASIC to their boards for example.
Or dongles could be made (possibly combining OTP generation with mining killing two birds with one stone...).
Quite honestly the "price" to pay (ie device + energy costs) is well worth it !

What do you think ASIC chips are? LEGOS? Do you seriously think that anyone can smack a big ASIC chip into a device with a LOW TDP design in mind? The price for the design could very well cost more than several HUNDRED thousands and the phone would each cost more than $100 extra and not everyone would use it. Honestly, no one would buy it.

I believe that the major issue would be rather on the network bandwidth / latency side of things.
I do not know if bitcoin has been designed with such a heavily decentralized mining in mind.

Its not. Why the hell would it be? Decentralised mining will NEVER be realistic.

I gave you an example of a good commercial existing chip to explain that there is no need for billions of users.
That chip is using 14nm technology (and is less than 20mm2 btw), so by far not the most optimized thing that could be achieved with the most recent technologies.
We are not far from the 2.5watts of USB2.0 for example, which opens the door for simple mining using USB dongles.
You can also be quite certain that big players could design faster/smaller/more efficient chips.

It looks to me like completely decentralized mining is within reach.  Laptops consuming 50 watts for example could easily accomodate 5 watts overhead.

So, the question is more about the network related issues, and the underlying bitcoin mining protocol requirements.

[ranochigo]

I gave you an example of a good commercial existing chip to explain that there is no need for billions of users.
That chip is using 14nm technology (and is less than 20mm2 btw), so by far not the most optimized thing that could be achieved with the most recent technologies.
We are not far from the 2.5watts of USB2.0 for example, which opens the door for simple mining using USB dongles.

It has existed since years ago. Gekkoscience do have a USB miner that outputs 20+ GH or so.

You can also be quite certain that big players could design faster/smaller/more efficient chips.

Why would they? If consumers do not want it, they wouldn't think of implementing it. It really seems like you are underestimating the additional cost and benefit of companies actually doing this. Its really pointless to put a single chip into a device.

It looks to me like completely decentralized mining is within reach.  Laptops consuming 50 watts for example could easily accomodate 5 watts overhead.

Alright fine. Then how about the cooling? How about the cost of companies actually purchasing chips to stuff it into their device which 50% of the users wouldn't use?

It's not within reach. Even if you were to implement chips in the device which every Bitcoin user is using, it would hardly match the current hashpower that most farms have. Furthermore, the hashpower will not be constant, it will fluctuate ALOT and Bitcoin will experience slow block times at certain time of the day. Anyway, it is rather hard for the protocol to be changed such that only those who mine can use Bitcoin.

[deuteragenie]

It has existed since years ago. Gekkoscience do have a USB miner that outputs 20+ GH or so.

Ah! I wasn't aware of that.  Thanks for the pointer.
It looks like with some effort, a USB 2.0 dongle could reach 0.5 TH/s (consuming 2.5 watts)
That is, 1.8 KWH / month (assuming 24h/24h operations - unrealistic!), that is roughly 4 USD energy costs per month - less than your bank fees!
If such a dongle was available, it is likely that many bitcoin (and other alts!) users would purchase and use it, as it guanrantees their own security (ie protection against 51% attacks / other forms or attacks...), this would decentralize mining effectively.
Let us suppose that such a dongle would sell for 20 USD, profit 5 USD.
When motherboard manufacturers will realize that they can get enter this market easily by providing it on board, at cost 10 USD, profit 2 USD, they will do...

So the question is: how to lower the barrier of entry to mining and make it affordable for the masses.

If the (current) bitcoin protocol has been foreseen to cope with tenths of millions of miners, that should work and is only a question of time.