...

[turtlehurricane]

...

[DjVoodo]

HE forgot to said that he received the product(gold coin) and that he sold it and got the money, but never send it back.

http://imgur.com/2m6ugei

[joust]

HE forgot to said that he received the product(gold coin) and that he sold it and got the money, but never send it back.

http://imgur.com/2m6ugei

Your image is invalid, please update/edit this so we could have a better view on this scam accusation. I am not sure what is happend here at this moment.

Regards,
Joust

Edit: this some clear evidence...

[DjVoodo]

i.imgur.com/2m6ugei.jpg - this is the first picture i post

And another one, showing that i was fair and i asked for the proof that he refund the payment. I said to him to show me proof that the payment was sent back and he said, i did it by mail. C'mon, we are speaking about amazon.com. You can't send payment back by mail, LOL.

i.imgur.com/DJPthVF.jpg
i.imgur.com/8IOrbi7.jpg

[DjVoodo]

If it was sent back, must exist a paper. I did request that from 2 days ago. Show that paper and i will apologize and take* all the critics.

[DjVoodo]

HE forgot to said that he received the product(gold coin) and that he sold it and got the money, but never send it back.

http://imgur.com/2m6ugei

I received the amazon email about a day later, and at that point realized the gift cards were stolen. I sent the merchandise back, I would never facilitate this sort of crime. I am sickened that you sent me stolen gift cards in the first place and are now trying to ruin my reputation.

Reminds me of segvec. So many scammers who prey on honest bitcoin dealers in the gift card/code world.

How innocent you are, you honest bitcoin dealer, LOL. I'm sorry that i don't have all our conversations to show people who you really are, plus i'm not first who say that you have a shady character. I was so stupid that i continue to work with you after our first fight. I should stop there, when you retrieved your feedback and you didn't want to pay me anymore, because i was yelling at you and told you the naked true about yourself.
And that time was no problem with any code and also was second time when you did that, first time, for one ppmc he paid me after 5 days and when i told him i will leave him scam accusation, instead of .75 rate he sent .60, as punishment that i threat him.

[DjVoodo]

ARE YOU RETARDED???!!!!

HOW TO SEND GOLD COIN TO AMAZON, IF YOU BOUGHT IT ON AMAZON, FROM SOMEONE SELLING THERE, PLUS THE PROBLEM IS WITH AMAZON, NOT WITH THE COMPANY YOU BOUGHT THE COIN. THEY DID GET THE PAYMENT,BECAUSE OTHERWISE THE COIN WASN'T SHIPPED.
FIRST STRIKE

AMAZON SAYING THE CODES ARE INVALID, LET'S SAY SO, WHERE IS THE E-MAIL STATING THAT YOU NEED TO REPAY THEM BACK?
SECOND STRIKE

WHAT YOU SENT BY EMAIL? MONEY IN ENVELOPE TO AMAZON? THEY DON'T ACCEPT CASH BY MAIL, REALLY THEY DON'T. ABOUT THE GOLD COIN I JUST TAKE THAT POSSIBILITY OUT AT MY FIRST STRIKE.
AND STRIKE THREE.

Now guys, i'm aware that i will never receive my money back from this dickhead, but nobody should use this guy again for online payment, without escrow. This is what i had to say.
I prove, once again, based on his affirmation this time, that he is just a low life, that is ruled by money.
And his next step will be to give me negative feedback. Please check time that i told him i will write the scam accusation and the time that he post, his scam accusation.

[EcuaMobi]

There are two separate problems here:

DjVoodo: do you deny it was a stolen code or a code obtained with a stolen credit card or any other illegal means? Are you recognizing that accusation? How exactly did you get that code? Were you surprised at all with the news that Amazon cancelled that gift card?

turtlehurricane: please post the receipt you got when you sent that item back. Also any emails or other communication with the seller. I'm sure you got something.

[Quickseller]

Do either of your have any kind of agreement that you can show that would document the terms of the trade? From the looks of it turtlehurricane has pictures of codes that are potentially fraudulent. He also apparently also loaded those codes onto either his or someone's amazon account and received some kind of gold coin after spending the funds from those codes.

turtlehurricane claims that the fraudulent codes were from DjVoodoo and that he returned the gold coin back to amazon. However this appears to be unsubstantiated, is there any kind of documentation to show that amazon actually received this gold coin back?

DjVoodoo claims that the merchant who sold the gold coin has received payment from amazon, however this seems to be unsubstantiated and would be contradictory to turtlehurricane's claim. He also claims that he does not know anything about the cards being fraudulent.

The trust rating from DjVoodoo to turtlehurricane claims that he sent $1,500 worth of AGC in exchange for 3.75BTC, which works out to $400/BTC. The highest the $/BTC price has been in the last two months is $316 on bitfinex. I am curious to know why exactly that someone would be willing to part with his gift cards for such a low price.

[luciann]

There are two separate problems here:

DjVoodo: do you deny it was a stolen code or a code obtained with a stolen credit card or any other illegal means? Are you recognizing that accusation? How exactly did you get that code? Were you surprised at all with the news that Amazon cancelled that gift card?

turtlehurricane: please post the email receipt you got when you sent that item back. Also any emails or other communication with the seller. I'm sure you got something.

I literally went to the post office and sent it in the original packaging, after confirming where to send it on the phone. There's no online receipt, besides that the purchase went from my orders page to cancelled.

If I was to keep the merchandise I would have had to pay an extra $200 due to high markup, that would make no sense. And I'm certainly not going to keep goods obtained with stolen gift cards. Also, I would've never tried to get the order to ship if I was aware the codes were stolen, emails were received/noticed after it shipped.

I held out hope it was just an account issue, but Amazon confirmed on 8/16 it was in fact stolen gift cards. I am glad my account survived this.

Also to clarify, the funds were frozen less than 12 hours after loading the cards. I got it fixed and then they were frozen again that night, once again I fixed it and then the item was shipped about 6 hours later. Then funds were frozen again, and that's the point at which I found the email stating the gift cards were invalid/stolen. Amazon is very disorganized when it comes to this to say the least.

Talk about some luck on your account not being permentantly suspended or anything..

Cause that real hassle would start, esp when you want to purchase stuff in the future.

But yeah, if the funds are fronzen less then that he prob got a carded card. In the future though, its better to just buy a smaller amount to see if the suppliers cards dont go bad and measure your risk.

[DjVoodo]

Do either of your have any kind of agreement that you can show that would document the terms of the trade? From the looks of it turtlehurricane has pictures of codes that are potentially fraudulent. He also apparently also loaded those codes onto either his or someone's amazon account and received some kind of gold coin after spending the funds from those codes.

turtlehurricane claims that the fraudulent codes were from DjVoodoo and that he returned the gold coin back to amazon. However this appears to be unsubstantiated, is there any kind of documentation to show that amazon actually received this gold coin back?

DjVoodoo claims that the merchant who sold the gold coin has received payment from amazon, however this seems to be unsubstantiated and would be contradictory to turtlehurricane's claim. He also claims that he does not know anything about the cards being fraudulent.

The trust rating from DjVoodoo to turtlehurricane claims that he sent $1,500 worth of AGC in exchange for 3.75BTC, which works out to $400/BTC. The highest the $/BTC price has been in the last two months is $316 on bitfinex. I am curious to know why exactly that someone would be willing to part with his gift cards for such a low price.

Our agreement, is our history for the last 6 months we did business together, always with hassle, but we did over 50k in business, all together.

I post in my first reply the turtle... text messages print screens to me, showing he received the coin by his affirmation, plus, quickseller, how can be ubsustantiated, if he is saying that the coin was sent back? LOL. Clearly he had the coin in hands, this means, the merchant got paid, so the problem was at amazon, because in this story, in the end, amazon got screwed by what turtle is saying. 3.75 btc at 250 that was the btc 2 weeks ago, if not higher, means aprox 975, that is .65 from 500 amazon card.

The cards have been paid cash 100%, receipts are showing that, pictures being HD, can be verified at the store.

Now, how can you send something, with big value without a receipt? I think someone is not seeing the big picture here. Don't you see that his words don't connect, if you will follow all the posts plus the print screens i took to his texts? HE is saying to me and to first posts here, that the coins was sent back to amazon, now was sent to merchant. LOL

[DjVoodo]

There are two separate problems here:

DjVoodo: do you deny it was a stolen code or a code obtained with a stolen credit card or any other illegal means? Are you recognizing that accusation? How exactly did you get that code? Were you surprised at all with the news that Amazon cancelled that gift card?

turtlehurricane: please post the receipt you got when you sent that item back. Also any emails or other communication with the seller. I'm sure you got something.

Yes, i deny, because from same guy we bought over 10 coins without any problem, this means over 15k in amazon codes.
And he knows very well this, the problem is i clean my inbox with the texts showing this and showing how he ask for more codes from my guy. This was my fault. Until than the problem is not in my affirmations, it is in his affirmations, that re not the same from 1 hour to another.

Guys read again top to bottom his posts.
Maybe i'm not a hero member here, but at least i don't lie and i don't play the victim role.
When i open this i knew that i lost my money forever, but at least i knew that i will teach some other newbies to not deal again with this scam.

[DjVoodo]

There are two separate problems here:

DjVoodo: do you deny it was a stolen code or a code obtained with a stolen credit card or any other illegal means? Are you recognizing that accusation? How exactly did you get that code? Were you surprised at all with the news that Amazon cancelled that gift card?

turtlehurricane: please post the email receipt you got when you sent that item back. Also any emails or other communication with the seller. I'm sure you got something.

I literally went to the post office and sent it in the original packaging, after confirming where to send it on the phone. There's no online receipt, besides that the purchase went from my orders page to cancelled.

If I was to keep the merchandise I would have had to pay an extra $200 due to high markup, that would make no sense. And I'm certainly not going to keep goods obtained with stolen gift cards. Also, I would've never tried to get the order to ship if I was aware the codes were stolen, emails were received/noticed after it shipped.

I held out hope it was just an account issue, but Amazon confirmed on 8/16 it was in fact stolen gift cards. I am glad my account survived this.

Also to clarify, the funds were frozen less than 12 hours after loading the cards. I got it fixed and then they were frozen again that night, once again I fixed it and then the item was shipped about 6 hours later. Then funds were frozen again, and that's the point at which I found the email stating the gift cards were invalid/stolen. Amazon is very disorganized when it comes to this to say the least.

Talk about some luck on your account not being permentantly suspended or anything..

Cause that real hassle would start, esp when you want to purchase stuff in the future.

But yeah, if the funds are fronzen less then that he prob got a carded card. In the future though, its better to just buy a smaller amount to see if the suppliers cards dont go bad and measure your risk.

luciann, i never gave him carded cards, and he know that very well. You cn check the picture HE uploaded and see that are cash, also if you want you can call the store and verify the receipt.

[DjVoodo]

Yes that happen on LBC and when the guy provide enough proof showing it was invalid, i sent him back the coins, FROM MY WALLET, LBC wallet was 0 AND I CAN SHOW THAT. So if i wanted i could close the wallet and not send back to that user almost $700, and yes you help me in that matter.
I didn't denied that is possible for amazon to send you that e-mails.

I WANT THE PROOF YOU SENT THE COIN BACK, that cannot be done, i explained in my posts above, why, this means that you must sent the cash back to amazon and doing it by US post, that is absolutely NOT POSSIBLE.

[Yoga4]

This whole thing is giving me a headache lol. As a third party person, I would be happy to investigate on behalf of both members to find out what actually happened.

[Quickseller]

Do either of your have any kind of agreement that you can show that would document the terms of the trade? From the looks of it turtlehurricane has pictures of codes that are potentially fraudulent. He also apparently also loaded those codes onto either his or someone's amazon account and received some kind of gold coin after spending the funds from those codes.

turtlehurricane claims that the fraudulent codes were from DjVoodoo and that he returned the gold coin back to amazon. However this appears to be unsubstantiated, is there any kind of documentation to show that amazon actually received this gold coin back?

DjVoodoo claims that the merchant who sold the gold coin has received payment from amazon, however this seems to be unsubstantiated and would be contradictory to turtlehurricane's claim. He also claims that he does not know anything about the cards being fraudulent.

The trust rating from DjVoodoo to turtlehurricane claims that he sent $1,500 worth of AGC in exchange for 3.75BTC, which works out to $400/BTC. The highest the $/BTC price has been in the last two months is $316 on bitfinex. I am curious to know why exactly that someone would be willing to part with his gift cards for such a low price.

Our agreement, is our history for the last 6 months we did business together, always with hassle, but we did over 50k in business, all together.

I post in my first reply the turtle... text messages print screens to me, showing he received the coin by his affirmation, plus, quickseller, how can be ubsustantiated, if he is saying that the coin was sent back? LOL. Clearly he had the coin in hands, this means, the merchant got paid, so the problem was at amazon, because in this story, in the end, amazon got screwed by what turtle is saying. 3.75 btc at 250 that was the btc 2 weeks ago, if not higher, means aprox 975, that is .65 from 500 amazon card.

The cards have been paid cash 100%, receipts are showing that, pictures being HD, can be verified at the store.

Now, how can you send something, with big value without a receipt? I think someone is not seeing the big picture here. Don't you see that his words don't connect, if you will follow all the posts plus the print screens i took to his texts? HE is saying to me and to first posts here, that the coins was sent back to amazon, now was sent to merchant. LOL

What was the agreement specifically? Under what conditions would he give you the 3.75BTC?

I understand that he had acknowledged that he received the gold coin, however I also acknowledge that there may be risks to keeping some kind of product after paying for such product with a fraudulent gift card (assuming it is true that the gift card is in fact fraudulent).

I am not familiar with the accounting system at Amazon nor am I familiar with how merchants are paid. I would assume that it would be something along the lines of that amazon advises the merchants that they are okay to sent a product at a certain point and would guarantee payment at that time. Also that if amazon needs to process a refund/return then the merchant would not receive such payment.

I would acknowledge that the merchant was at one point paid, however the question remains if they have still been paid. The question also remains if turtle is able to document the fact that he in fact returned the gold coin. I would also question the "$200 markup" that turtle is claiming he would have had to have paid if he kept the coin, this really does not make sense to me.

I would also like to question turtle (again) as to what exactly he was expecting when he was agreeing to sell his bitcoin at a ~$150 premium above the market rate when he was receiving gift cards that were supposedly purchased in cash very recently....

[Yoga4]

My premium when I accepted Amazon gift cards was actually lower than local bitcoins. That is simply the market rate since even with cash Amazon gift cards are nowhere near as useful as actual money.

Under the laws of the United States I am obligated to cancel the transaction and report it if there is any sign of fraudulent activity. There was no agreement in place that I would send bitcoins if the cards were fraudulent, this is the first time it's happened to me so that was unexpected. On local bitcoins if a bitcoin seller gets these emails from Amazon then the escrow is released back to them. It is just common sense, since the gift cards are worth $0. Sending bitcoins in exchange for stolen gift cards is unthinkable. DJVoodoo demanding I pay for stolen gift cards is a criminal act, and I am not going to facilitate any sort of illegal activity.

If djvoodoo wasn't completely anonymous I doubt he would be posting any of this, it is very clearly against the law to send a Bitcoin dealer fraudulent gift cards. About the same as a chargeback, and I've literally gotten someone arrested for a chargeback.

Fortunately in this case I did not send the bitcoins, or I'd be demanding he send it back and he would disappear forever.

In this case you are lucky the Bitcoins were not released. I personally have received fraudulent gift cards before and its a huge pain in the butt and a process. Luckily you were not scammed out of the Bitcoins!

[Quickseller]

My premium when I accepted Amazon gift cards was actually lower than local bitcoins. That is simply the market rate since even with cash Amazon gift cards are nowhere near as useful as actual money.

The date on the receipts you posted is August 4, 2015 and the date on the email from Amazon is August 5 with a timestamp of ~3 AM. Why do you think someone was so willing to buy an AGC with cash in order to pay a $150 premium when they could have sent a WU payment or made a cash deposit and paid a ~$20 premium at the most (that would be ~10%)? I honestly think the premium you were charging and the time between the date on the receipt and the time they were redeemed means that you knew very well what was going on with the AGC.

Under the laws of the United States I am obligated to cancel the transaction and report it if there is any sign of fraudulent activity.

I don't entirely disagree with this statement, although to be fair to your trading partner, I think you should cite this law.

There was no agreement in place that I would send bitcoins if the cards were fraudulent,

What exactly was the agreement. I wouldn't think there would be a specific clause regarding fraudulent cards, although the agreement may have included other terms that may show one of you being in the wrong/right

this is the first time it's happened to me so that was unexpected.

On local bitcoins if a bitcoin seller gets these emails from Amazon then the escrow is released back to them.

And how long would LBC hold the gift cards in escrow for you to potentially receive this email?

It is just common sense, since the gift cards are worth $0. Sending bitcoins in exchange for stolen gift cards is unthinkable. DJVoodoo demanding I pay for stolen gift cards is a criminal act, and I am not going to facilitate any sort of illegal activity.

I think you knew the source of the gift cards when you redeemed them. I also think that if you were able to receive some kind of value from the gift cards then you owe him the BTC that you promised, this is regardless of if the cards were fraudulent.

If djvoodoo wasn't completely anonymous I doubt he would be posting any of this, it is very clearly against the law to send a Bitcoin dealer fraudulent gift cards. About the same as a chargeback, and I've literally gotten someone arrested for a chargeback.

I think the first part is speculation. I think you should cite a specific law regarding the second part. Congratulations on the 3rd part.

Fortunately in this case I did not send the bitcoins, or I'd be demanding he send it back and he would disappear forever.

Maybe next time you should use escrow. But you do not accept escrow on the forum because the escrows are anon....so you instead insist on your trading partners they send first while you stay anon

[DjVoodo]

As i said, he got the coin and he keep the money. There is no proof that he sent it back. This means that he is to greedy and he will scam you at the first chance that will have, outside that will always re-negotiate the rate in his favor, doesn't matter if you are some old business partner. This guy is just another junk in this world and i'm very sorry that i worked so long with him, because i was 100% that this will end bad for me one day.
I had the feeling before giving him the last amazon codes, but i said, c'mon the world is not so bad as you think, but it is.
The world will fuck you at first sign of weakness, LOL.

[DjVoodo]

Do either of your have any kind of agreement that you can show that would document the terms of the trade? From the looks of it turtlehurricane has pictures of codes that are potentially fraudulent. He also apparently also loaded those codes onto either his or someone's amazon account and received some kind of gold coin after spending the funds from those codes.

turtlehurricane claims that the fraudulent codes were from DjVoodoo and that he returned the gold coin back to amazon. However this appears to be unsubstantiated, is there any kind of documentation to show that amazon actually received this gold coin back?

DjVoodoo claims that the merchant who sold the gold coin has received payment from amazon, however this seems to be unsubstantiated and would be contradictory to turtlehurricane's claim. He also claims that he does not know anything about the cards being fraudulent.

The trust rating from DjVoodoo to turtlehurricane claims that he sent $1,500 worth of AGC in exchange for 3.75BTC, which works out to $400/BTC. The highest the $/BTC price has been in the last two months is $316 on bitfinex. I am curious to know why exactly that someone would be willing to part with his gift cards for such a low price.

Our agreement, is our history for the last 6 months we did business together, always with hassle, but we did over 50k in business, all together.

I post in my first reply the turtle... text messages print screens to me, showing he received the coin by his affirmation, plus, quickseller, how can be ubsustantiated, if he is saying that the coin was sent back? LOL. Clearly he had the coin in hands, this means, the merchant got paid, so the problem was at amazon, because in this story, in the end, amazon got screwed by what turtle is saying. 3.75 btc at 250 that was the btc 2 weeks ago, if not higher, means aprox 975, that is .65 from 500 amazon card.

The cards have been paid cash 100%, receipts are showing that, pictures being HD, can be verified at the store.

Now, how can you send something, with big value without a receipt? I think someone is not seeing the big picture here. Don't you see that his words don't connect, if you will follow all the posts plus the print screens i took to his texts? HE is saying to me and to first posts here, that the coins was sent back to amazon, now was sent to merchant. LOL

What was the agreement specifically? Under what conditions would he give you the 3.75BTC?

I understand that he had acknowledged that he received the gold coin, however I also acknowledge that there may be risks to keeping some kind of product after paying for such product with a fraudulent gift card (assuming it is true that the gift card is in fact fraudulent).

I am not familiar with the accounting system at Amazon nor am I familiar with how merchants are paid. I would assume that it would be something along the lines of that amazon advises the merchants that they are okay to sent a product at a certain point and would guarantee payment at that time. Also that if amazon needs to process a refund/return then the merchant would not receive such payment.

I would acknowledge that the merchant was at one point paid, however the question remains if they have still been paid. The question also remains if turtle is able to document the fact that he in fact returned the gold coin. I would also question the "$200 markup" that turtle is claiming he would have had to have paid if he kept the coin, this really does not make sense to me.

I would also like to question turtle (again) as to what exactly he was expecting when he was agreeing to sell his bitcoin at a ~$150 premium above the market rate when he was receiving gift cards that were supposedly purchased in cash very recently....

The agreement was like this:
I give him 1500 in amazon codes, that means 3x500, he redeem the cards, order the gold coin, receive it, sell it and ONLY than i will get my btc.

This agreement worked for over 10 coins (i really don't know exactly, because we did sometime twice a week this, sometimes once per week, for the last 2 months). The amazon cards always came from same guy, so if one is fraudulent, than all was, in  this case turtle should be in jail for at least 1 month now.
The rate was like this .65 for me .35 for him. We start doing this at .75 for me but when first order came, he change the agreement at .70 with my btc at him, so i couldn't disagree, because he was paying me that anyway, and before second he do it .65. Now i was selling amazon on lbc on .70, but because i have honor and i like to keep my old connections (we worked before on ppmc codes), i lower the rate at .65. So his rate was under the LBC rate. IF you want on LBC to find the high rate ok, but behind the scene on LBC there are other rates, because they allow trusted user service and the listings are hidden from the rest of the users. He knows very well my rate on lbc, because i gave him acces to my account when he help me there.

And as quickseller said above, if he got the coin, he must pay per agreement, because all the steps have been fulfill.

The other thing that i didn't pay attention because i didn't want. Amazon will never ask compensation, i did check this, so there is no $200 fee penalty. In the worst case they close your account and do legal steps against you..


So MR. Zachary Gruskin, you did subestimate my intelligence, based on my kindness and that i always tried to work with you lowering my rate, but all this turn against you and this forum now knows what dickhead you are now.


It was so simple to not get this headache by sending proof that the coin or payment was returned and all this never exist. But as you keep the coin for you and didn't want to pay me, you will get this shit all over.