If double spending is such an issue and VNL solved it, where is the press?

[TPTB_need_war]

And so now you know why IRC is inappropriate. If the man (or woman?) is serious, he will come to a forum where we can all post during our waking time and have an ongoing conversation that isn't buried by the noise of 1 post per secondminute on IRC nonsense.

Stop your FUD.

[smooth]

If people make serious accusations that the code has been copied in part from VNLBitcoin...

I'll alert smooth so he can come here and battle you on that issue. He was the one who pushed that recently not me. Gregory Maxwell apparently first discovered it in January.

The links to some of the evidence are in the john-connor forum Trust rating (click on Reference), where I put them. Greg Maxwell was the first, as far as I know, to raise the issue back in January (I think), but not the only one, and the evidence linked in trust which clearly demonstrates the plagarism does not come directly from Greg Maxwell, nor does it date to January.

There are significant pieces of code which are essentially identical with the exception of formatting or meaningless changes like using the literal constant "0" instead of the defined constant "NULL", to the point where they probably would compile to identical binary code. There is another instance where the original code contains a bug (fixed in a later Bitcoin release) and VNL's code, in addition to being very much structurally similar as above, contains the same bug. That stuff just does not happen without copying.

The plagarism does not relate directly to the correct functionality (or lack thereof) of ZeroTime, but it does demonstrate a clear willingness on the part of john-connor to misrepresent in order to promote his project. His claims should be treated with skepticism.

[TPTB_need_war]

Got tired of the noise in the VanillaCoin IRC:

TPTB_need_war
He is onlline now? So I want to hear his justifications for why attackers can't force his zerotime algorithm to inconclusive and thus to 1-confirmation?
ThaHandyman
lmao TPTB_need_war
that was swaggish
+etoque
Well
BCarp
what i liked was looking at thier chart and seeing the trend line
+etoque
He don't spend alot of time on vnl
and was pretty hesitant at the end
lovepool
TPTB_need_war  you can PM John connor. He is  "john-connor" / "john-connor-afk" ( when hes away from keyboard )
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BCarp
what i saw was a clearly linear pattern moving the price upward, with a small break towards becoming exponential near the end of sept beginning of october....   I also love that he promoted waht I need, investors having cool heads so we can keep accumulating from the moners for a month or so
nonproprietary
I loved using coinigy until they started charging for it
+etoque
oh they charging
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+etoque
I just create account lol
BCarp: Yeah pretty much
leftovers_
!vnl
@VNLBOT
VNL: 1 | USD: 0.06458485 | EUR: 0.05699413 | GBP: 0.04168364 | CAD: 0.08578554 | AUD: 0.09053220 | CNY: 0.41391978 | BTC: 0.00028776
+etoque
miss 10 cent ;(
acoin
！vnl
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acoin
The price was cut
nonproprietary
wow, they are chargin 0.099 a month now... i thought i remember them having a period where pricing was a one time fee
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BCarp
if past experience has anything to say about it, price will stay somewhat stable though repressed until volume becomes about 2x what the daily miner sells are...(no idea what this actually is)  then in fear of people losing interest the walls will fall and the bump will begin.
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ⓘ ChanServ set mode +v pinkice
BCarp
I think Im gonna paper wallet 5k or so and lock em away for 2 years.
otherwise im gonna sell out at the wrong time lol
Qzzn
!c vnl
@VNLBOT
POLONIEX | BTC-VNL | LAST: 0.00028931 | LASK: 0.00028931 | HBID: 0.00028408 | C: 0.37% | VBTC: 19.708 | QVNL: 69408.76 | L24H: 0.00027401 | H24H: 0.00030190
BITTREX | BTC-VNL | LAST: 0.00029145 | LASK: 0.00030999 | HBID: 0.00029145 | C: 1.63% | VBTC: 4.280 | VVNL: 14495.83 | L24H: 0.00027814 | H24H: 0.00031000
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WildBilla
if anyone is interested, we discussed it earlier, but if anyone wants to generate a "VNL community" fund via FREE referral fees, I will compile all fees via this link https://www.coinbase.com/join/52b624a93ec584082e000082     if you are planning on buying btc for any reason (and not in Canada) the first $100 in btc buys gets $75 in referral bonus t
o me... up from 25% pre-crash.. this is a limited offer, but I plan to not use it personally and compile it for whatever consensus suggestions/whatver people would want to use free btc for to benefit VNL
WildBilla
free money as coinbase probably panic bought the fall, just throwing it out there... its free btc.. might as well take it
+pinkice
.bal
BCarp
hey wildbilla do you sleep at all?  everytime i come on your here :\
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+etoque
haha
WildBilla
I dont sleep Bcarp I wait
BCarp
!bon WildBilla
leftovers_
WildBilla:  robot
WildBilla
I just smoked a lot
BCarp
!bong WildBilla
* BayMax gives WildBilla the bong
bigdoge
vanilla bud
leftovers_
Nilla buds
BCarp
tweeked my neck today, time to pull out the cannaboids
WildBilla
but honestly that referral bonus is a good idea IMO to get FREE BTC and I can put it wherever anyone wants.. hell, maybe rain fund. IDK but I am not selfish and love free shit
+etoque
WildBilla:
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+etoque
That's the spirit man !
WildBilla
etoque you still buy btc ?
+etoque
Right now nan
BCarp
man I love you WildBilla.... what a guy
WildBilla
isnt $75 per first $100 a solid deal though? I was blown away
bigdoge
did i miss megastorm?
WildBilla
yes
well, katrina if we get to 35K
bigdoge
el nino
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bigdoge
got any 'nilla?
BCarp
cheap rain.....  been suffering from a drought here lately, and i live beside a rainforest.   If money comes in before price goes way down ill be buying me some rainfall
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bigdoge
bcarp u live 'next to' rainforest!
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BCarp
well beside, in.... i guess its all about perspective
Roepert
.rain .1
@VNLBOT
rain: Roepert rained .1 VNL on 18 account(s) (0.00555556 each) ! w00t ! full list @ #vanillatips
Qzzn
thx
bigdoge
yes yes yes
BCarp
is anyone creating a marketpace?
bigdoge
bcarp i live next to marketplace
+gaagaa
!net
@VNLBOT
Network: 968.38 GH/s | PoW: 39,908.03 | PoS: 1.25 | Blocks: 191,408
PooledTX: 0 | Blocktime: 1440646475 (1m 50s) | Type: proof-of-stake
pool.vanillaco.in | 864.77 MH/s | 6 workers | Last: 188,910 (2d 19h 59m 38s)
vnl.suprnova.cc | 285.11 GH/s | 87 workers | Last: 191,405 (4m 2s)
vnl.idcray.com | 806.80 GH/s | 18 workers | Last: 191,406 (3m 37s)
pool.mn/vnl | 381.8 MH/s | 1 workers | Last: 188,271 (3d 12h 59m 11s)
WildBilla
id sell/buy so much. I have some crazy shit
lovepool
with everyones vast supply of VNL, don't forget to pickup a VNL keychain or VNL coin!
http://www.cryptomemorabilia.com/product-category/vnl/
BCarp
I want to sell percebes for VNL
maybe a testacle or two......
shit I drank to much wine tonight
sorry about the rambling idiocy
lovepool
lol
WildBilla
I will get one soon lovepool
can I get a coin for ever VNL?
lovepool
what do you mean by the last line you said? I'm confused ahha .
WildBilla
can I get a vnl coin for every vnl I have
BCarp
dont worry we will all buy keychains and minted coin when the price hits one VNL per coin
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WildBilla
so I can rain at titty bar
BCarp
lol
WildBilla
put some stripppers eyes out.. tell them dont worry, your rich bitch
leftovers_
!rain .1
@VNLBOT
rain: leftovers_ rained .1 VNL on 20 account(s) (0.00500000 each) ! w00t ! full list @ #vanillatips
BCarp
....... your fucked up
Qzzn
thx
ThaHandyman
ty leftovers
WildBilla
I am joking bro.. haha
!rain .1
@VNLBOT
rain: WildBilla rained .1 VNL on 20 account(s) (0.00500000 each) ! w00t ! full list @ #vanillatips
ThaHandyman
lovepool is back ]o]
WildBilla
Night nillas!
ThaHandyman
\o\
Qzzn
good night
+UroCEO
night
ThaHandyman
night my nilla
+UroCEO
!c vnl
@VNLBOT
POLONIEX | BTC-VNL | LAST: 0.00028751 | LASK: 0.00028737 | HBID: 0.00027799 | C: -0.25% | VBTC: 23.269 | QVNL: 81908.68 | L24H: 0.00027401 | H24H: 0.00030190
BITTREX | BTC-VNL | LAST: 0.00029101 | LASK: 0.00030995 | HBID: 0.00029101 | C: 1.48% | VBTC: 4.338 | VVNL: 14690.69 | L24H: 0.00027814 | H24H: 0.00031000
lovepool
WildBilla  LOL. I could get you one coin for everyone of your VNLs. having them for strippers would be fun! ahha
night
WildBilla
gotta get my 2 hours of sleep in.. be back before china has lunch
BCarp
so where are we having the party when VNL hits $100 dollars per coin?
WildBilla
yep, thats my master plan love
I WILL HOST EVERYONE
I swear
+UroCEO
BCarp: lets try $1 first lol
leftovers_
Later nilla
BCarp
lol ok  how about a ski trip in chile when we go to $1
WildBilla
I have noir in vegas and can get a massive suite.. we would have all the nillas there.. raining on my nillas VNL coins
leftovers_
!rain .1
@VNLBOT
rain: leftovers_ rained .1 VNL on 21 account(s) (0.00476190 each) ! w00t ! full list @ #vanillatips
+UroCEO
hookers and blow
WildBilla
!rain .1
+UroCEO
lol
@VNLBOT
rain: WildBilla rained .1 VNL on 21 account(s) (0.00476190 each) ! w00t ! full list @ #vanillatips
Qzzn
thx
WildBilla
BUY THAT TINY SELL WALL and have a good night. later nilla
s
BCarp
ok ok boring and all, but lets do vegas at $1
WildBilla
I will 100% pay for Vegas at 1% since I can get a 10K/night suite for free
(and im not rich I had one amazing trip and now am noir status... )luck
later
BCarp
sweet ill give you 500 VNL for the party at $1 /vnl when we do
WildBilla
spread word on the coinbase referral.. I am serious I will protect it'
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BCarp
honestly though Vegas is for wannabes.......  though fun, real fun doesnt happen there
im drunk I can say what I want
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nonproprietary
BCarp, I approve
ⓘ ChanServ set mode +v Jimlite
+Jimlite
freenode sucks
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+Jimlite
!net
@VNLBOT
Network: 1.56 TH/s | PoW: 61,334.71 | PoS: 1.72 | Blocks: 191,418
PooledTX: 3 | Blocktime: 1440647263 (2m 58s) | Type: proof-of-stake
pool.vanillaco.in | 2.32 GH/s | 6 workers | Last: 188,910 (2d 20h 13m 55s)
vnl.suprnova.cc | 281.85 GH/s | 91 workers | Last: 191,405 (18m 18s)
vnl.idcray.com | 746.76 GH/s | 19 workers | Last: 191,417 (3m 32s)
pool.mn/vnl | 167.0 MH/s | 1 workers | Last: 188,271 (3d 13h 13m 27s)
imine.xyz | 3.12 GH/s | 1 workers | Last: 189,958 (1d 15h 49m 14s)
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Wildbilla
I'm back for second. Is btc falling again.
+Jimlite
!c btc
@VNLBOT
BTC-USD | BITFINEX: 225.26 | BITSTAMP: 224.64 | BTC-E: 223.44 | OKCOIN: 224.10
Wildbilla

[nextgencoin]

i hope you PM'ed JC like someone told you to.....no one can be at a keyboard 24/7....hence AFK. Away From Keyboard.

[monsterer]

Except he didn't really as Bitcoin has had histories of double spends. How can it be solved if it's happened before?

The thing bitcoin and satoshi are most famous for, is for solving the double spending problem. The solution was this thing called a 'blockchain'. You might want to look it up.

[solid12345]

Except he didn't really as Bitcoin has had histories of double spends. How can it be solved if it's happened before?

The thing bitcoin and satoshi are most famous for, is for solving the double spending problem. The solution was this thing called a 'blockchain'. You might want to look it up.

If it's solved, then why has double spending occurred before with Bitcoin? If it's solved why is a 51% attack a real very real risk? Aren't quantum computers a real risk in the near future to the security of its algorithm? Why can it occur with accepting 0 confirmation transactions? This is like saying you found a cure for cancer BUT it comes with an *asterisk (cancer may only be cured as long as you eat a well-balanced diet afterwards!)  

Everyone will snidely declare, "well everything is fine if you wait 10 minutes for a few confirmations", well going by that logic I can just as much say Visa could "solve" double spending problems too if everyone just waited a few days or weeks for transactions to sort themselves out with no chargeback issues before they release their merchandise, of course naturally this is not economically or socially practical hence companies accept the risk and eat the loss from the 1% of scammers out there. But if they did do it they could say they "solved" the DS issue too. The main strength of Bitcoin is handles finding transanctional consensus faster and more efficiently hence why it is a technical progress but it's not the monumental achievement people really think it is. I mean at the end of the day it's just a glorified decentralized excel spreadsheet for christ's sake, it's not like the invention of the computer or the internal combustion engine.

This is why I don't like claims of absolutes, whether it comes from the Bitcoin community or Vanillacoin community. But I do care which coin is the superior tech advancement and can significantly enhance the realm of commerce or get us off the back of the stinking federal reserve (even though in the end none of this may not matter as 1st mover advantage of a slower and inferior tech often wins out in the end).

[monsterer]

If it's solved, then why has double spending occurred before with Bitcoin? If it's solved why is a 51% attack a real very real risk? Aren't quantum computers a real risk in the near future to the security of its algorithm? Why can it occur with accepting 0 confirmation transactions? This is like saying you found a cure for cancer BUT it comes with an *asterisk (cancer may only be cured as long as you eat a well-balanced diet afterwards!)  

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Abstract. A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online
payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a
financial institution. Digital signatures provide part of the solution, but the main
benefits are lost if a trusted third party is still required to prevent double-spending.
We propose a solution to the double-spending problem using a peer-to-peer network...

[solid12345]

So basically you read nothing I said.

A "secure solution" isn't a real solution if it is theoretically possible to break and can be attacked in some form.

The invention of indoor plumbing "solved" human society's waste disposal issue but it can still be undone by jamming something large down the hole that clogs up the drain. If the waste is too big then it can't be disposed of! So in essence waste disposal is only solved up to a point. It is by far an improvement over an outhouse though.

[terman45x]

So basically you read nothing I said.

A "secure solution" isn't a real solution if it is theoretically possible to break and can be attacked in some form.

The invention of indoor plumbing "solved" human society's waste disposal issue but it can still be undone by jamming something large down the hole that clogs up the drain. If the waste is too big then it can't be disposed of! So in essence waste disposal is only solved up to a point. It is by far an improvement over an outhouse though.

Not necessarily. Now we are mixing urine with the water table - a completely unnecessary process which is leading to widespread ecological damage, especially in the States. Research why biodiversity is plunging across the states in all creek based ecosystems. Its all the pharmaceuticals, hormones etc which are being flushed down the toilet instead of peed onto the earth.

[solid12345]

So basically you read nothing I said.

A "secure solution" isn't a real solution if it is theoretically possible to break and can be attacked in some form.

The invention of indoor plumbing "solved" human society's waste disposal issue but it can still be undone by jamming something large down the hole that clogs up the drain. If the waste is too big then it can't be disposed of! So in essence waste disposal is only solved up to a point. It is by far an improvement over an outhouse though.

Not necessarily. Now we are mixing urine with the water table - a completely unnecessary process which is leading to widespread ecological damage, especially in the States. Research why biodiversity is plunging across the states in all creek based ecosystems. Its all the pharmaceuticals, hormones etc which are being flushed down the toilet instead of peed onto the earth.

Good point. The road to hell is sometimes paved with good intentions. One of the unintended consequences for Bitcoin and blockchains may be that instead of liberating us from the shackles of human exploitation by big government is it may one day usher in an even more Orwellian and oppressive future where every transaction is digitally tracked and not anonymous and no way to "opt out" of the system. Such a high price to pay just for the comfort of stopping a little more financial fraud every year. I am still on the fence about digital currencies whether they are truly good or not, but that is another debate  

[monsterer]

So basically you read nothing I said.

A "secure solution" isn't a real solution if it is theoretically possible to break and can be attacked in some form.

You said the double spending problem wasn't solved, I just provided you with the paper which proves that it is solved.

Now, if you had asked if the 0 confirmation double spend problem was solved, I would answer: no.

edit: your idea of a 100% secure solution is infeasible in a trustless, peer to peer environment. The best you can hope for is that the chance of an attack succeeding is statistically insignificant.

[solid12345]

So basically you read nothing I said.

A "secure solution" isn't a real solution if it is theoretically possible to break and can be attacked in some form.

You said the double spending problem wasn't solved, I just provided you with the paper which proves that it is solved.

Now, if you had asked if the 0 confirmation double spend problem was solved, I would answer: no.

It's solved until/if someone 51% attacks Bitcoin or SHA256 is cracked. I guess my definition of the word solved is different. If I run a business and put the security of my company in a piece of software, I'd like to know if there is ANY potential risk, and let's be honest, Bitcoin DOES have risks even if the chances of said risks are extraordinarily low. Don't think I am taking away from what Satoshi did, he is clearly a genius but I don't believe it is the end-all for fintech and believe newer and better technologies will surpass it.

[monsterer]

It's solved until/if someone 51% attacks Bitcoin or SHA256 is cracked. I guess my definition of the word solved is different. If I run a business and put the security of my company in a piece of software, I'd like to know if there is ANY potential risk, and let's be honest, Bitcoin DOES have risks even if the chances of said risks are extraordinarily low. Don't think I am taking away from what Satoshi did, he is clearly a genius but I don't believe it is the end-all for fintech and believe newer and better technologies will surpass it.

All peer to peer currency carries risks, now and forever, so you might as well get used to the idea.... as does banking / business.

[traumschiff]

Nice to see that the team is complete with the same people as in every other thread. Still not a single line of code pointed out in ZeroTime's source which could be a vulnerability.

I'm enjoying the theorycrafting so far 

[monsterer]

Nice to see that the team is complete with the same people as in every other thread. Still not a single line of code pointed out in ZeroTime's source which could be a vulnerability.

I'm enjoying the theorycrafting so far 

Point out the line of code where it was solved, and I'll point out the line where it wasn't solved.

[traumschiff]

Nice to see that the team is complete with the same people as in every other thread. Still not a single line of code pointed out in ZeroTime's source which could be a vulnerability.

I'm enjoying the theorycrafting so far  

Point out the line of code where it was solved, and I'll point out the line where it wasn't solved.

That's not how it works, you are here attacking a solution. It is open source, live and already being used. No one who attacked reviewed the code and pointed out flaws in it so far.

[ol92]

Nice to see that the team is complete with the same people as in every other thread. Still not a single line of code pointed out in ZeroTime's source which could be a vulnerability.

I'm enjoying the theorycrafting so far  

Point out the line of code where it was solved, and I'll point out the line where it wasn't solved.

That's not how it works, you are here attacking a solution. It is live already and being used.

Double spending is an algorithmic /mathematic problem : the burden of the proof is on the one claiming having a solution!
The white paper already sent by John doesn't provide proofs (maybe there is another version more complete ?)

On the other hand, there are many aspect of vanillacoin I appreciate : the rewrite of the network part, the O(1) routing, the android wallet staking ...
These features are enough to qualify vnl above a lots of altcoins.
The instant transaction system seems a good + too: even with some eventual limits.

But  I believe John made somewhat excessive claims in regards of the facts : "complete rewrite of the code" and "solving the double spending problem".

[Wheatclove]

Nice to see that the team is complete with the same people as in every other thread. Still not a single line of code pointed out in ZeroTime's source which could be a vulnerability.

I'm enjoying the theorycrafting so far  

Point out the line of code where it was solved, and I'll point out the line where it wasn't solved.

That's not how it works, you are here attacking a solution. It is open source, live and already being used. No one who attacked reviewed the code and pointed out flaws in it so far.

You have to first prove it secure. This isn't a court of law where you are "innoncent until proven guilty." The burden of proof is on the creator of the software.

[Wheatclove]

The title says it all. I'm curious, I read all the time how double spending is some big issue but there seems to be zero press attention to fact there is at the very least a credible claim its been solved by Vanilla Coin.

http://www.itproportal.com/2015/07/07/bitcoin-hit-with-double-spending-bug/

The Bitcoin fork was due to miner's not verifying the block version. Nothing to do with a weakness in Bitcoin itself.

[TPTB_need_war]

edit: your idea of a 100% secure solution is infeasible in a trustless, peer to peer environment. The best you can hope for is that the chance of an attack succeeding is statistically insignificant.

Again I believe this is not true. Never say never. The devil is in the details.

Edit: Nothing is absolutely secure beyond any probability. But when probabilities shrink to that of winning the Lotto, I consider that to be "100%" unlikely to occur in most people's lives.