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Author Topic: Deflation and Bitcoin, the last word on this forum  (Read 128448 times)
Etlase2
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October 02, 2012, 12:11:23 AM
 #601

A "hoarder" must either spend the money eventually or not. If not, then it really is the broken window fallacy. All that's happened is the hoarder has produced. If the hoarder does spend the money, all they've done is defer consumption because they preferred future consumption to present consumption.

No, all they haven't done is deferred consumption, because deferring consumption typically means investing in a regular economy. Whether it's with a very low interest rate via a savings account or via 401ks or what have you, the money does not leave the supply. You can pick through the thread I posted, but all of it is from Hayek. So am I supposed to trust you over an economic nobel prize winner?

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You can't assume a fixed inflation rate and then look at how the market will respond to it. That's not how markets work. If the inflation rate is 8%, it's 8% for a reason. And when people react to that inflation rate, their reaction will affect that rate.

I don't know where I've assumed any fixed inflation rate.

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Also, you have to be very careful when you compare the type of inflation or deflation that most economics works are talking about to what happens in the Bitcoin economy. Inflation usually refers to governments printing and spending money, not new money being created in exchange for a service. And deflation usually refers to a reduction in the amount of money in existence, not an increase in demand for a fixed supply.

No, I don't have to be careful, because you know what I meant and so does the rest of the economic world. Deflation has never referred to a reduction of the amount of money in existence. It was a term that came by well after inflation meant price inflation. If you have to redefine the word every time you make an argument, perhaps you are being a bit dense for the sake of density. Hayek decided to let this go whereas Mises could not.

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October 03, 2012, 09:23:52 PM
 #602

Here's my view on it:  Hoarding will become much less of an issue as liquidity increases.  When people see that profits can be made by trading between different CryptoCurrencies, they'll start shelling out BitCoins and the price will stabilize.  BitCoins will also become more liquid as it becomes easier to convert them into cash (read, BitCoin backed MasterCard, etc.).

I think the dynamic between BitCoin and other CryptoCurrencies is what holds the key to BitCoin's long-term success.
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October 03, 2012, 10:48:57 PM
 #603

Banks hoard. A lot of early miners are acting a bit like banks/bankers IMHO.
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October 03, 2012, 11:43:16 PM
 #604

Banks hoard. A lot of early miners are acting a bit like banks/bankers IMHO.

Banks don't horde.  Read up on fractional reserve banking for more info.
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October 03, 2012, 11:47:43 PM
 #605

Banks hoard. A lot of early miners are acting a bit like banks/bankers IMHO.
If banks hoarded, they'd have to charge a storage fee instead of paying interest.

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October 06, 2012, 09:40:31 PM
 #606

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take away our oxigen and we tend to die. These things are provable, you can run test after test and get the same result.
I would love to see the tests You have done to prove this! Cheesy

Would You like something that gains value as time goes by or loses value with time? Take away bullshit of capitalistic thinking and it is obvious that money (not only bitcoins) must be deflationary.

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Etlase2
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October 06, 2012, 10:02:17 PM
 #607

Would You like something that gains value as time goes by or loses value with time? Take away bullshit of capitalistic thinking and it is obvious that money (not only bitcoins) must be deflationary.

Take away the bullshit of capitalistic thinking and it is obvious that money should be neutral. Anything that gains value can only gain value relative to other things, meaning those other things have lost value compared to it. There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

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October 06, 2012, 11:09:19 PM
 #608

Things have changing values over time. Take for example Pentium2-450 processor. Once it was a top of the line, it was best what can be put in your gaming rig. Now it is scrapped and have little use. In future as it is going to be difficult to find such CPU for legacy systems it will again be worth something. Value of things are relative to each other.

And free lunch is good thing. It is better than keeping food in supermarket shelves and throwing it out when the time expires. Everyone must be compensated for work and given what they need. This requires some redesigning of society using guns and propaganda.

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Etlase2
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October 06, 2012, 11:20:04 PM
 #609

Value of things are relative to each other.

Wow I have never considered this before, even though I said exactly as much in my post. But you have blown my mind, nonethless.

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And free lunch is good thing. It is better than keeping food in supermarket shelves and throwing it out when the time expires.

Someone posting on a bitcoin forum having no concept of social cost and associates "free lunch" with food? Color me surprised.

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October 08, 2012, 05:06:54 AM
 #610

Even if bitcoin will deflate, bitcoins are still being added to the supply at a fast rate until about 2017 at least. So if you don't want to use a deflationary currency, just sell all your bitcoins in 2017 before deflation kicks into effect. It's not that difficult.  Roll Eyes

+1

Agreed !   bitcoins are still "unknown" by the mass, and by 2017, I call them "Easy mined coin"  Smiley

Inflation or deflation ?   I Vote Deflation

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October 08, 2012, 01:50:43 PM
 #611

Banks hoard. A lot of early miners are acting a bit like banks/bankers IMHO.

Banks don't horde.  Read up on fractional reserve banking for more info.

They don't usually horde.  But they are now.  That's why inflation isn't out of control.  Yet.

M

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October 08, 2012, 04:50:39 PM
 #612

They don't usually horde.  But they are now.  That's why inflation isn't out of control.  Yet.
We are indeed living in strange times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_interest-rate_policy

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molecular
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October 21, 2012, 10:25:10 AM
 #613

Deflation has practical consequences. Who would invest on "real world" companies on GLBSE if You can expect more profits from the rising value of the BTC.

This is one of the many benefits of Bitcoin. You don't need to invest to maintain your wealth, you invest for profits. The result is businesses that fulfill society's needs will profit and those that don't fail. (People's needs aren't going away they just won't need as much c#@p.)

The net benefit is people planet and profit and now we have a self regulating system, and a production driven economy, the economic benefits of the throw away society start eroding.

A fixed money supply has far reaching environmental benefits too.

this can't be +1ed enough.

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paraipan
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October 21, 2012, 10:51:14 AM
 #614

Deflation has practical consequences. Who would invest on "real world" companies on GLBSE if You can expect more profits from the rising value of the BTC.

This is one of the many benefits of Bitcoin. You don't need to invest to maintain your wealth, you invest for profits. The result is businesses that fulfill society's needs will profit and those that don't fail. (People's needs aren't going away they just won't need as much c#@p.)

The net benefit is people planet and profit and now we have a self regulating system, and a production driven economy, the economic benefits of the throw away society start eroding.

A fixed money supply has far reaching environmental benefits too.

this can't be +1ed enough.

+1 The TL;DR of Bitcoin as a whole

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molecular
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October 21, 2012, 02:21:39 PM
 #615

hey guys, just caught up to about 7 pages of this awesome thread.

@Adrian-X: thanks for chipping in your wonderful arguments.

@tytus: dude,

=> What are the proposals for maintaining the value of BTC ?
Supply and demand.

In other words the value will be random. It will follow chaotic movements :-)

I believe that gold is not a good currency because in fact it actually fluctuates too much (nobody would sign long term contracts in gold because it's value in 5 years is completely unpredictable). I feel that most members of the forum criticize central banks as regulators of money supply, but do we have a better way to control the value of any asset.

Why do you insist that value of assets/money has to be controlled? How do you even measure the value of a bitcoin? In friggin' USD???

I honestly don't understand, please explain.

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October 21, 2012, 02:24:59 PM
 #616

Banks hoard. A lot of early miners are acting a bit like banks/bankers IMHO.

Banks don't horde.  Read up on fractional reserve banking for more info.

The fed hoards unlimited amounts of unprinted dollars.

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mdude77
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October 21, 2012, 05:28:06 PM
 #617

Banks hoard. A lot of early miners are acting a bit like banks/bankers IMHO.

Banks don't horde.  Read up on fractional reserve banking for more info.

The fed hoards unlimited amounts of unprinted dollars.


lol

Smiley

M

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Stellaartois
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May 21, 2015, 09:26:53 PM
 #618

Can anyone direct me to double spend

Stellaartois
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May 21, 2015, 09:27:11 PM
 #619

Also am I able to claim double spend back

Adrian-x
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May 21, 2015, 10:12:38 PM
 #620

Can anyone direct me to double spend

You came to the right place.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=double+spend

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