legal action against scamming ponzis

[jackg]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

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[nikona]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

Nope, because most of those ponzis would be run by an anonymous person. There also have been lots of other scams in the bitcoin world , but its not easy to take legal action unless you know the real identity of the person running it.

[Shinpako09]

Why not if you know their identity.

[RustyNomad]

If you know the person then yes you can take legal action.

Guess the deciding factor will be the amounts involved. Taking legal action like this will not be cheap and it will most probably cost you a couple of thousand before you even get started. Firstly you will have to get hold of everybody who invested there in order to get a group together for a class action type of case. That alone will already set you back quite a bit.

You will then need to get a lawyer that knows and understand bitcoin and the ecosystem it operates in and he/she will most probably require a substantial upfront payment from you and or the group of people.

So it all depends on what you are willing to spend. You can sue somebody for a dollar if you want to and if you are willing to pay the cost.

[jackg]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

Nope, because most of those ponzis would be run by an anonymous person. There also have been lots of other scams in the bitcoin world , but its not easy to take legal action unless you know the real identity of the person running it.

You may be able to track the ip and remove posessions (including the servers!)
The owner of the domain name can be traced!

[altcoinhosting2]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

Nope, because most of those ponzis would be run by an anonymous person. There also have been lots of other scams in the bitcoin world , but its not easy to take legal action unless you know the real identity of the person running it.

You may be able to track the ip and remove posessions (including the servers!)
The owner of the domain name can be traced!

Altough it's not that simple, you CAN buy TLD's anonymously (well... I know a couple company's that require your name and address, but never verify said information PLUS they accept bitcoin as a payment method)...
With hosting: the same deal... There are a couple VPS resellers that don't rely verify your entered identity, and accept bitcoin as payment...

Don't get me wrong: i hate scammers and chances are pretty good they fucked up at least once (it's enough to forget turning on your VPN when logging in on a server to get your real IP in a log somewhere)... So it's basically a good idear to check their domain registrar and hosting provider for a real IP, but a smart scammer would probably cover his tracks, no

[jackg]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

Nope, because most of those ponzis would be run by an anonymous person. There also have been lots of other scams in the bitcoin world , but its not easy to take legal action unless you know the real identity of the person running it.

You may be able to track the ip and remove posessions (including the servers!)
The owner of the domain name can be traced!

Altough it's not that simple, you CAN buy TLD's anonymously (well... I know a couple company's that require your name and address, but never verify said information PLUS they accept bitcoin as a payment method)...
With hosting: the same deal... There are a couple VPS resellers that don't rely verify your entered identity, and accept bitcoin as payment...

Don't get me wrong: i hate scammers and chances are pretty good they fucked up at least once (it's enough to forget turning on your VPN when logging in on a server to get your real IP in a log somewhere)... So it's basically a good idear to check their domain registrar and hosting provider for a real IP, but a smart scammer would probably cover his tracks, no

I also noticed that most linux computers that are cheep: like the raspberry pi, can host servers and would not be worth very much for people to reposess. Also there woul dnot be a roblem with traffic as the website wouldn't be legit so the raspberry pi wouldn't have to handle much!

[altcoinhosting2]

I also noticed that most linux computers that are cheep: like the raspberry pi, can host servers and would not be worth very much for people to reposess. Also there woul dnot be a roblem with traffic as the website wouldn't be legit so the raspberry pi wouldn't have to handle much!

No, but that way you would be hosting a scam site from your home... So getting the personal info from the scammer would be really easy (one court order to the ISP would suffice)...

I just pray scammers would be that dumb 

[jackg]

I also noticed that most linux computers that are cheep: like the raspberry pi, can host servers and would not be worth very much for people to reposess. Also there woul dnot be a roblem with traffic as the website wouldn't be legit so the raspberry pi wouldn't have to handle much!

No, but that way you would be hosting a scam site from your home... So getting the personal info from the scammer would be really easy (one court order to the ISP would suffice)...

I just pray scammers would be that dumb 

Unless you used a solar panel and hid it near a supermarket or cafe in a waterproof case so that it could connect to the internet there through wifi and run anonymously

[odolvlobo]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

Yes. In the U.S., contact the FBI and the SEC.

[crazyearner]

Good luck in tracking down the people behind the scams not much success has every happened in trying other than a waste of time and effort and money in trying to track down scams. Simple answer to these types of sites is not to bother investing in them

[ashour]

Yes you can take legal action against ponzi operators as long as you know who exactly operated it. You will also need accurate evidence that the person operate the ponzi scheme, before taking any legal action.

[crazyearner]

Yes you can take legal action against ponzi operators as long as you know who exactly operated it. You will also need accurate evidence that the person operate the ponzi scheme, before taking any legal action.

That is true however good luck in finding who exactly operated it most hide with fake details, ip addresses, VPN proxy and then some or run them on servers and domains like http://www.goldcoders.com/ no doubt will host or provide you details on how to run a successful scam as they ran for many years providing the scripts to make them. Even some of the biggest ones running didn't find but governments closed the site down or got them suspended. Some have indeed been found out but took a long time to do so but even then and have seen no justice was served.

[RodeoX]

You will also want to make sure that what YOU were doing is legal. Have you paid your tax on the bitcoins that have appreciated? Was this a mixer or gambling or other illegal operation? If it was then you may be the one who gets caught. No judge is going to award you money for your attempted tax evasion.
Any good grifter knows that step 1 is to involve the mark in something he can't go to the cops about or that he is ashamed to admit.

[crazyearner]

You will also want to make sure that what YOU were doing is legal. Have you paid your tax on the bitcoins that have appreciated? Was this a mixer or gambling or other illegal operation? If it was then you may be the one who gets caught. No judge is going to award you money for your attempted tax evasion.
Any good grifter knows that step 1 is to involve the mark in something he can't go to the cops about or that he is ashamed to admit.

Well all of the types of HYIP or related are never legal and people know this. Some just like the gamble others like to increase at other peoples loss and this disgusts me. I have done a few in the past but not many because their all the same, they never have anything real behind them to back up the profits.

You can find some among all the scam hyips that are legit depending on what services they have to offer. If only offering rob Peter to pay Paul, then its ponzi and not legal to take part in. People who use mixers on coins know why their using and people do not need to use this unless their been any wrong doing or know are taking part in activities that ask questions or light red flags. All activities that I do I pay my tax on when needed to as if I am not at x or above the fresh-hold then tax is not needed to be paid on unless I go over it or I am converting to fiat money. And each state and country is different making their own claims but tax is tax. People love to evade it. As where others do not. I am self-employed as well as having a full-time job and pay what is needed and sometimes it pays off when I paid too much tax as get a nice rebate at the end of the financial year.

[ashour]

Yes you can take legal action against ponzi operators as long as you know who exactly operated it. You will also need accurate evidence that the person operate the ponzi scheme, before taking any legal action.

That is true however good luck in finding who exactly operated it most hide with fake details, ip addresses, VPN proxy and then some or run them on servers and domains like http://www.goldcoders.com/ no doubt will host or provide you details on how to run a successful scam as they ran for many years providing the scripts to make them. Even some of the biggest ones running didn't find but governments closed the site down or got them suspended. Some have indeed been found out but took a long time to do so but even then and have seen no justice was served.

Yep, its always a tricky situation with ponzi schemes. That's why I think that bitcointalk should ban any ponzi scheme activity from this forums. More scams will just hurt the bitcoin reputation and image.

[crazyearner]

Yes you can take legal action against ponzi operators as long as you know who exactly operated it. You will also need accurate evidence that the person operate the ponzi scheme, before taking any legal action.

That is true however good luck in finding who exactly operated it most hide with fake details, ip addresses, VPN proxy and then some or run them on servers and domains like http://www.goldcoders.com/ no doubt will host or provide you details on how to run a successful scam as they ran for many years providing the scripts to make them. Even some of the biggest ones running didn't find but governments closed the site down or got them suspended. Some have indeed been found out but took a long time to do so but even then and have seen no justice was served.

Yep, its always a tricky situation with ponzi schemes. That's why I think that bitcointalk should ban any ponzi scheme activity from this forums. More scams will just hurt the bitcoin reputation and image.

Would be nice to have more control over ponzi schemes or some sort of escrow done provided and only sites that have an escrow done ie middle man service are allowed to be listed. Any others, are subject to being closed or put into another section, where it is more risky and highlighted as high risk and another section with low, medium risk involved, as theirs middle man service that acts as a "backup Fund" and can payout if people lose deposits or x amount is available to be returned etc. But Bitcointalk support wont do that anytime soon.

[bitcoinsolicitor]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

Where are you located?

For legal advice / a lawyer in London please email Richard Howlett at Selachii LLP - +44 (0) 20 7792 5649 - info@selachii.co.uk

[jackg]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

Where are you located?

For legal advice / a lawyer in London please email Richard Howlett at Selachii LLP - +44 (0) 20 7792 5649 - info@selachii.co.uk

I am located in Manchester but have only gambled small amounts (highest of 0.005 btc) but I know people have lost substancial amounts of bitcoins and was asking n behalf of these people from companies such as Emicoin where people hav elost over £100000 in investments! (Why someone would put that amount of money into an investment that has a chance of not being legit, i do not know!)

[Wapinter]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

He just asked if legal action can be taken against such company or not.The said company may not necessarily be running online business.No where did he say that he wasn't able to trace or locate the company or its promotors.Read properly before posting

[crazyearner]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

Where are you located?

For legal advice / a lawyer in London please email Richard Howlett at Selachii LLP - +44 (0) 20 7792 5649 - info@selachii.co.uk

I am located in Manchester but have only gambled small amounts (highest of 0.005 btc) but I know people have lost substancial amounts of bitcoins and was asking n behalf of these people from companies such as Emicoin where people hav elost over £100000 in investments! (Why someone would put that amount of money into an investment that has a chance of not being legit, i do not know!)

With the legal advise your providing in London what services are provided any actions work on a no win no fee price structure? As I would be interested in finding out more information and also reporting a number if company's that claim are a registered business within the UK however not even located at where they claim to be at and continue to make posts and comments on here. Theirs a wide range of programs that people are getting shafted in and open cases against them yet still claim are legit, and fully registered in UK but even their office is not at the address claiming to be at.

[epiwssa]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

Yes. In the U.S., contact the FBI and the SEC.

Not a horrible option, actually. The more information you have when going to either of these agencies, the better off you are. Unless you're some high-and-mighty soul, though, you're not going to get these federal agencies to jump to attention unless they've pulled a very, very significant amount of money.

This also assumes the scammers can be traced to the United States. But if that's the case, I'd call the IRS -- they like their share and are willing to chase it with a lower threshold than the FBI or SEC.

[ashour]

Yes you can take legal action against ponzi operators as long as you know who exactly operated it. You will also need accurate evidence that the person operate the ponzi scheme, before taking any legal action.

That is true however good luck in finding who exactly operated it most hide with fake details, ip addresses, VPN proxy and then some or run them on servers and domains like http://www.goldcoders.com/ no doubt will host or provide you details on how to run a successful scam as they ran for many years providing the scripts to make them. Even some of the biggest ones running didn't find but governments closed the site down or got them suspended. Some have indeed been found out but took a long time to do so but even then and have seen no justice was served.

Yep, its always a tricky situation with ponzi schemes. That's why I think that bitcointalk should ban any ponzi scheme activity from this forums. More scams will just hurt the bitcoin reputation and image.

Would be nice to have more control over ponzi schemes or some sort of escrow done provided and only sites that have an escrow done ie middle man service are allowed to be listed. Any others, are subject to being closed or put into another section, where it is more risky and highlighted as high risk and another section with low, medium risk involved, as theirs middle man service that acts as a "backup Fund" and can payout if people lose deposits or x amount is available to be returned etc. But Bitcointalk support wont do that anytime soon.

Ponies wouldn't exist if they operated with escrow, ponzis are there so the operate can run with the bitcoins.

[crazyearner]

Yes you can take legal action against ponzi operators as long as you know who exactly operated it. You will also need accurate evidence that the person operate the ponzi scheme, before taking any legal action.

That is true however good luck in finding who exactly operated it most hide with fake details, ip addresses, VPN proxy and then some or run them on servers and domains like http://www.goldcoders.com/ no doubt will host or provide you details on how to run a successful scam as they ran for many years providing the scripts to make them. Even some of the biggest ones running didn't find but governments closed the site down or got them suspended. Some have indeed been found out but took a long time to do so but even then and have seen no justice was served.

Yep, its always a tricky situation with ponzi schemes. That's why I think that bitcointalk should ban any ponzi scheme activity from this forums. More scams will just hurt the bitcoin reputation and image.

Would be nice to have more control over ponzi schemes or some sort of escrow done provided and only sites that have an escrow done ie middle man service are allowed to be listed. Any others, are subject to being closed or put into another section, where it is more risky and highlighted as high risk and another section with low, medium risk involved, as theirs middle man service that acts as a "backup Fund" and can payout if people lose deposits or x amount is available to be returned etc. But Bitcointalk support wont do that anytime soon.

Ponies wouldn't exist if they operated with escrow, ponzis are there so the operate can run with the bitcoins.

Nothing can be done to prevent them from being made. It is our own choice deciding to paly the game of them and right now too many popping up it is going back to like the days with e-gold and hyip and ponzi being able to rip many people off and get away with it. The only difference back then they got closed down by governments because of how much $ where bringing people and governments classed as ponzi or hyip. Where some really good ones such as 12dailypro back then 12% daily for 12 days and paid for almost 2 years or so and then eventually due to how big it got in the US government actually closed it down. Only way to put a stop to the scams is having some escrow but wont happen on here as default. Would be nice to have such a feature only allowed to list if part funds are escrow.

[odolvlobo]

Yep, its always a tricky situation with ponzi schemes. That's why I think that bitcointalk should ban any ponzi scheme activity from this forums. More scams will just hurt the bitcoin reputation and image.

I assume that Bitcointalk doesn't ban scams intentionally because doing so could open them up to a lawsuit when they don't ban something that turns out to be a scam.

Would be nice to have more control over ponzi schemes or some sort of escrow done provided and only sites that have an escrow done ie middle man service are allowed to be listed. Any others, are subject to being closed or put into another section, where it is more risky and highlighted as high risk and another section with low, medium risk involved, as theirs middle man service that acts as a "backup Fund" and can payout if people lose deposits or x amount is available to be returned etc. But Bitcointalk support wont do that anytime soon.

Ponies wouldn't exist if they operated with escrow, ponzis are there so the operate can run with the bitcoins.

Escrow? Sure, you can't operate a ponzi scheme with escrow, but you can't operate a legitimate investment either.

[mitchellmint]

I stuck my neck out, posted all my personal information when I produced a coin.  I have been very careful about providing information about the coin so they can make a conscious decision about where to invest.  I do not posses a Series 66 to tell people to invest.  What I have pursued is FUDsters.  There are people that have lost money due to their accusations not to buy but to Sell.  The Anon FUD is usually orchestrating a pump and dump. 

I have plans of taking the coins I have mined to hedge the coin I produced.  I have met, on the internet, the coins developers I can trust.  Coin launches are all about mine for a day and baghold investors.  I stopped mining until last August.  I took a chance to rejoin the game with Axiom and FutureCash with $80 worth of Hash.  Its gone.  I did not sell out but could very easily made $400 praying upon the people buying into the future of the coin.  Its not what I think is right and fair.  All coins at market slope down, then stay flat for 6-9 months and die.  Only 50 coins are still viable.

My tips to stay out of strife and wanting to sue a dev,

1. Make sure they buy a 3rd Party block explorer, CryptoID or BlockExperts.  If you want to have some real fun, make your own block explorer.
2. src/main.cpp tells all.  Control + F to find "reward"  You will see if there are any hidden premines or instamines.
3. If you are into profiting on a launch, your risks of being a bagholder are high.  Every coin slopes down after launch.
4. Wait 90 days and see if the Dev is still there.  Most bail after 90 days.
5. I prefer to invest into only 9 month or older chains.