legal action against scamming ponzis

[jackg]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

[1714323065]

1714323065

[1714323065]

1714323065

[1714323065]

1714323065

[1714323065]

1714323065

[1714323065]

1714323065

[nikona]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

Nope, because most of those ponzis would be run by an anonymous person. There also have been lots of other scams in the bitcoin world , but its not easy to take legal action unless you know the real identity of the person running it.

[Shinpako09]

Why not if you know their identity.

[RustyNomad]

If you know the person then yes you can take legal action.

Guess the deciding factor will be the amounts involved. Taking legal action like this will not be cheap and it will most probably cost you a couple of thousand before you even get started. Firstly you will have to get hold of everybody who invested there in order to get a group together for a class action type of case. That alone will already set you back quite a bit.

You will then need to get a lawyer that knows and understand bitcoin and the ecosystem it operates in and he/she will most probably require a substantial upfront payment from you and or the group of people.

So it all depends on what you are willing to spend. You can sue somebody for a dollar if you want to and if you are willing to pay the cost.

[jackg]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

Nope, because most of those ponzis would be run by an anonymous person. There also have been lots of other scams in the bitcoin world , but its not easy to take legal action unless you know the real identity of the person running it.

You may be able to track the ip and remove posessions (including the servers!)
The owner of the domain name can be traced!

[altcoinhosting2]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

Nope, because most of those ponzis would be run by an anonymous person. There also have been lots of other scams in the bitcoin world , but its not easy to take legal action unless you know the real identity of the person running it.

You may be able to track the ip and remove posessions (including the servers!)
The owner of the domain name can be traced!

Altough it's not that simple, you CAN buy TLD's anonymously (well... I know a couple company's that require your name and address, but never verify said information PLUS they accept bitcoin as a payment method)...
With hosting: the same deal... There are a couple VPS resellers that don't rely verify your entered identity, and accept bitcoin as payment...

Don't get me wrong: i hate scammers and chances are pretty good they fucked up at least once (it's enough to forget turning on your VPN when logging in on a server to get your real IP in a log somewhere)... So it's basically a good idear to check their domain registrar and hosting provider for a real IP, but a smart scammer would probably cover his tracks, no

[jackg]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

Nope, because most of those ponzis would be run by an anonymous person. There also have been lots of other scams in the bitcoin world , but its not easy to take legal action unless you know the real identity of the person running it.

You may be able to track the ip and remove posessions (including the servers!)
The owner of the domain name can be traced!

Altough it's not that simple, you CAN buy TLD's anonymously (well... I know a couple company's that require your name and address, but never verify said information PLUS they accept bitcoin as a payment method)...
With hosting: the same deal... There are a couple VPS resellers that don't rely verify your entered identity, and accept bitcoin as payment...

Don't get me wrong: i hate scammers and chances are pretty good they fucked up at least once (it's enough to forget turning on your VPN when logging in on a server to get your real IP in a log somewhere)... So it's basically a good idear to check their domain registrar and hosting provider for a real IP, but a smart scammer would probably cover his tracks, no

I also noticed that most linux computers that are cheep: like the raspberry pi, can host servers and would not be worth very much for people to reposess. Also there woul dnot be a roblem with traffic as the website wouldn't be legit so the raspberry pi wouldn't have to handle much!

[altcoinhosting2]

I also noticed that most linux computers that are cheep: like the raspberry pi, can host servers and would not be worth very much for people to reposess. Also there woul dnot be a roblem with traffic as the website wouldn't be legit so the raspberry pi wouldn't have to handle much!

No, but that way you would be hosting a scam site from your home... So getting the personal info from the scammer would be really easy (one court order to the ISP would suffice)...

I just pray scammers would be that dumb 

[jackg]

I also noticed that most linux computers that are cheep: like the raspberry pi, can host servers and would not be worth very much for people to reposess. Also there woul dnot be a roblem with traffic as the website wouldn't be legit so the raspberry pi wouldn't have to handle much!

No, but that way you would be hosting a scam site from your home... So getting the personal info from the scammer would be really easy (one court order to the ISP would suffice)...

I just pray scammers would be that dumb 

Unless you used a solar panel and hid it near a supermarket or cafe in a waterproof case so that it could connect to the internet there through wifi and run anonymously

[odolvlobo]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

Yes. In the U.S., contact the FBI and the SEC.

[crazyearner]

Good luck in tracking down the people behind the scams not much success has every happened in trying other than a waste of time and effort and money in trying to track down scams. Simple answer to these types of sites is not to bother investing in them

[ashour]

Yes you can take legal action against ponzi operators as long as you know who exactly operated it. You will also need accurate evidence that the person operate the ponzi scheme, before taking any legal action.

[crazyearner]

Yes you can take legal action against ponzi operators as long as you know who exactly operated it. You will also need accurate evidence that the person operate the ponzi scheme, before taking any legal action.

That is true however good luck in finding who exactly operated it most hide with fake details, ip addresses, VPN proxy and then some or run them on servers and domains like http://www.goldcoders.com/ no doubt will host or provide you details on how to run a successful scam as they ran for many years providing the scripts to make them. Even some of the biggest ones running didn't find but governments closed the site down or got them suspended. Some have indeed been found out but took a long time to do so but even then and have seen no justice was served.

[RodeoX]

You will also want to make sure that what YOU were doing is legal. Have you paid your tax on the bitcoins that have appreciated? Was this a mixer or gambling or other illegal operation? If it was then you may be the one who gets caught. No judge is going to award you money for your attempted tax evasion.
Any good grifter knows that step 1 is to involve the mark in something he can't go to the cops about or that he is ashamed to admit.

[crazyearner]

You will also want to make sure that what YOU were doing is legal. Have you paid your tax on the bitcoins that have appreciated? Was this a mixer or gambling or other illegal operation? If it was then you may be the one who gets caught. No judge is going to award you money for your attempted tax evasion.
Any good grifter knows that step 1 is to involve the mark in something he can't go to the cops about or that he is ashamed to admit.

Well all of the types of HYIP or related are never legal and people know this. Some just like the gamble others like to increase at other peoples loss and this disgusts me. I have done a few in the past but not many because their all the same, they never have anything real behind them to back up the profits.

You can find some among all the scam hyips that are legit depending on what services they have to offer. If only offering rob Peter to pay Paul, then its ponzi and not legal to take part in. People who use mixers on coins know why their using and people do not need to use this unless their been any wrong doing or know are taking part in activities that ask questions or light red flags. All activities that I do I pay my tax on when needed to as if I am not at x or above the fresh-hold then tax is not needed to be paid on unless I go over it or I am converting to fiat money. And each state and country is different making their own claims but tax is tax. People love to evade it. As where others do not. I am self-employed as well as having a full-time job and pay what is needed and sometimes it pays off when I paid too much tax as get a nice rebate at the end of the financial year.

[ashour]

Yes you can take legal action against ponzi operators as long as you know who exactly operated it. You will also need accurate evidence that the person operate the ponzi scheme, before taking any legal action.

That is true however good luck in finding who exactly operated it most hide with fake details, ip addresses, VPN proxy and then some or run them on servers and domains like http://www.goldcoders.com/ no doubt will host or provide you details on how to run a successful scam as they ran for many years providing the scripts to make them. Even some of the biggest ones running didn't find but governments closed the site down or got them suspended. Some have indeed been found out but took a long time to do so but even then and have seen no justice was served.

Yep, its always a tricky situation with ponzi schemes. That's why I think that bitcointalk should ban any ponzi scheme activity from this forums. More scams will just hurt the bitcoin reputation and image.

[crazyearner]

Yes you can take legal action against ponzi operators as long as you know who exactly operated it. You will also need accurate evidence that the person operate the ponzi scheme, before taking any legal action.

That is true however good luck in finding who exactly operated it most hide with fake details, ip addresses, VPN proxy and then some or run them on servers and domains like http://www.goldcoders.com/ no doubt will host or provide you details on how to run a successful scam as they ran for many years providing the scripts to make them. Even some of the biggest ones running didn't find but governments closed the site down or got them suspended. Some have indeed been found out but took a long time to do so but even then and have seen no justice was served.

Yep, its always a tricky situation with ponzi schemes. That's why I think that bitcointalk should ban any ponzi scheme activity from this forums. More scams will just hurt the bitcoin reputation and image.

Would be nice to have more control over ponzi schemes or some sort of escrow done provided and only sites that have an escrow done ie middle man service are allowed to be listed. Any others, are subject to being closed or put into another section, where it is more risky and highlighted as high risk and another section with low, medium risk involved, as theirs middle man service that acts as a "backup Fund" and can payout if people lose deposits or x amount is available to be returned etc. But Bitcointalk support wont do that anytime soon.

[bitcoinsolicitor]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

Where are you located?

For legal advice / a lawyer in London please email Richard Howlett at Selachii LLP - +44 (0) 20 7792 5649 - info@selachii.co.uk

[jackg]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

Where are you located?

For legal advice / a lawyer in London please email Richard Howlett at Selachii LLP - +44 (0) 20 7792 5649 - info@selachii.co.uk

I am located in Manchester but have only gambled small amounts (highest of 0.005 btc) but I know people have lost substancial amounts of bitcoins and was asking n behalf of these people from companies such as Emicoin where people hav elost over £100000 in investments! (Why someone would put that amount of money into an investment that has a chance of not being legit, i do not know!)

[Wapinter]

If many people have invested small amounts of bitcoins into a company that was not what the investor was expecting. Could these people get together and take legal action against the company if they could fund the legal fees through amounts smaller than their investments.

He just asked if legal action can be taken against such company or not.The said company may not necessarily be running online business.No where did he say that he wasn't able to trace or locate the company or its promotors.Read properly before posting