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Author Topic: BIP100 is Winning!  (Read 1446 times)
Mickeyb
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August 28, 2015, 09:44:02 PM
 #21

The more I think about this problem and the more time passes by, I think that consensus will be reached in the end. There will be a majority, BIP100 seems like a majority at the moment considering the support it got in such a short period of time. When we reach majority, the minority will move to the winning side. There is no way people will be left on the wrong side of the chain. There is no way in my opinion we will end up with 2 chains.

As for the OP's question, it seems to me that there is no perfect solution. Each solution has it drawbacks, we will have to chose one nevertheless.
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August 28, 2015, 10:24:18 PM
 #22

It doesn't make sense to me that miners vote something that affects so much to bitcoin
seeing how they have the power necessary to fork bitcoin, i think it's ok to let them vote on changes.

And ignore the opinion of all of those who rely on the blockchain for their businesses AKA payment processors / market maker and all the decentralized app? wtf? This is not what I call consensus but miners takeover.

they are free to make more public statements...

my guess is they were contacted by gavin and pressured to sign a doc and they did because they say the real need to incress blocklimit and this WAS the best proposal presented to them

now that they know where miners stand,  0% support XT while 65% support BIP100

they might change there mind, in the end they get what they need a blocklimit increase

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good point...

bitcoin has a great difference... you cannot push it down the throat of the users like they are used to do with everything else, forcing people to use or buy only what they want...
bitcoin let the real users decide what they want... because the power is not centralized so you can't have a minority controlling everything and the others having to accept..

that is what is good about bitcoin and that is the most important feature it must remain: DESCENTRALIZATION
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August 28, 2015, 11:17:07 PM
 #23

So... how far are we away from increasing the block size? Because it looks like a majority wants a block size increase. We're just arguing by how much we're going to increase the block size, right? The increase isn't that urgent, but I think that getting it out of the way before it becomes an issue is the best way to go. Imagine just starting to use bitcoin, and all your transactions take a day or more if you don't include a big miner's fee? It could be really bad for bitcoin adoption.
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August 29, 2015, 08:08:00 AM
 #24

maybe that proposal is just too complicated and will bring too many problems with it.
iam still in favor of a smooth increase over time 2MB, 4 MB, 8MB, 14 MB...

it should be an easy design.

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August 29, 2015, 08:55:08 AM
 #25


I love BIP1xx, but didnt hear about it till today, and it seems miners couldn't even vote for that one.

My own vote goes to BIP1xx as well as it addresses true market demand but given that the option to vote on that has not been set, it's a matter of the second best preference and BIP100 is the one I liked next best.
That said it's in D@T and that may also be part of the reason you didn't hear about it till today as that section tends to be kept very clean to ensure good discussion.

That said at least there was some discussion on it in reddit

As I can see, the proposal is now being discussed on the front page of www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin... interesting Smiley

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3iblg7/bipdraft_dynamically_controlled_bitcoin_block/

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August 29, 2015, 10:40:25 AM
 #26

I remember that time when Hearn (I think) mentioned that most miners have already agreed to their proposal.  Roll Eyes
So essentially just a few pools are left, and BIP100 will be going above 80%. The turn of events is very interesting, and this was not what I was expecting. Is there a ETA for the implementation? I've read one statement in the mailing list recently. He just said that he was working on it.

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August 29, 2015, 10:57:35 AM
 #27

I remember that time when Hearn (I think) mentioned that most miners have already agreed to their proposal.  Roll Eyes
So essentially just a few pools are left, and BIP100 will be going above 80%. The turn of events is very interesting, and this was not what I was expecting. Is there a ETA for the implementation? I've read one statement in the mailing list recently. He just said that he was working on it.

Well with all the people putting up a fuzz and the polarization between the XT loyalists and the Core Users it was bound to occur that a better proposal or set of ideas would be put forward to try and find consensus.

That said I feel like were finally starting to move forward and that if it's not BIP 100 or even BIP 101 that get adopted the elements from them that the community feels are beneficial will be moved into a new proposal and adopted at around 75% it might be possible even with BIP100 but it's a bit early to say it will be certain that this version of the current proposal will be the final adopted one.

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August 29, 2015, 11:42:16 AM
 #28

I thought I had posted in this thread already, but it seems there are several about the same thing now.  I definitely feel like BIP100 needs tweaking.  It's not bad, I don't necessarily oppose it, but I think we can do better.

Perhaps there needs to be a balance struck somewhere between BIP1xx and BIP100.  BIP1xx only considers the demand for block space, but BIP100 only considers what benefits the miners and not the network as a whole.  The prospect of having an entity choose a variable that primarily benefits them still doesn't sit well with me, when we can define it algorithmically like we do with everything else.  BIP100, as it currently stands, simply places too much emphasis and power on one side.

To save all the arguing, the compromise we should all agree on is to find a solution that splits the demand for block space and the demand for decentralisation 50/50.  Can we at least agree on that much?  Something that maintains an equilibrium between resources, incentive and capacity.  That way almost everyone gets what they want.  Almost.  I know some people think the demand for block space shouldn't be considered at all and that centralisation concerns are the only thing that's important, but clearly they're not going to budge on that, so frankly they can get left behind if they aren't willing to make even the slightest concessions.  One way or another, the blocksize is increasing, it's just agreeing on how to implement it in a stable way.


I remember that time when Hearn (I think) mentioned that most miners have already agreed to their proposal.  Roll Eyes
So essentially just a few pools are left, and BIP100 will be going above 80%. The turn of events is very interesting, and this was not what I was expecting. Is there a ETA for the implementation? I've read one statement in the mailing list recently. He just said that he was working on it.

Well with all the people putting up a fuzz and the polarization between the XT loyalists and the Core Users it was bound to occur that a better proposal or set of ideas would be put forward to try and find consensus.

That said I feel like were finally starting to move forward and that if it's not BIP 100 or even BIP 101 that get adopted the elements from them that the community feels are beneficial will be moved into a new proposal and adopted at around 75% it might be possible even with BIP100 but it's a bit early to say it will be certain that this version of the current proposal will be the final adopted one.

I do find it amusing that when Gavin set the 75% threshold, certain individuals started crying "power grab" or "dictatorship", but now one of the other proposals is gaining momentum, suddenly those same people are okay with 75%.   Grin
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August 29, 2015, 01:19:55 PM
 #29

-snip-
I do find it amusing that when Gavin set the 75% threshold, certain individuals started crying "power grab" or "dictatorship", but now one of the other proposals is gaining momentum, suddenly those same people are okay with 75%.   Grin
Honestly, did you expect something else to happen? Humans are firstly flawed by design, then secondly by specific characters. I was expecting people to be okay with things related to Core that they were not okay with XT. Even though I've mentioned "above 80", I'm not okay with anything less than 90% (at least).

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