With GLBSE gone, we can start fresh on new lands.

[yrtrnc]

So it looks like GLBSE was shut down due to legal issues.

What if we could set up such an exchange were no laws and regulations existed?

What do you think of this idea?

[gweedo]

There are no laws and regulations in bitcoins so have at it.

[mhughes]

No laws or regulations?  International waters!  Who wants to help fund the S.S. Bitcoin?

[yrtrnc]

What do you mean have at it?

There may be no rules and regulations in Bitcoin, although that does not mean rules and regulations cannot be enforced on Bitcoin.

There are no laws and regulations in bitcoins so have at it.

[gweedo]

What do you mean have at it?

There may be no rules and regulations in Bitcoin, although that does not mean rules and regulations cannot be enforced on Bitcoin.

There are no laws and regulations in bitcoins so have at it.

Actually it does mean that no rules or regulations can be enforced upon bitcoins, that is beauty of bitcoins that is why they are amazing!

[yrtrnc]

What I meant was rules and regulations can be imposed on business using bitcoin depending where they are.

What do you mean have at it?

There may be no rules and regulations in Bitcoin, although that does not mean rules and regulations cannot be enforced on Bitcoin.

There are no laws and regulations in bitcoins so have at it.

Actually it does mean that no rules or regulations can be enforced upon bitcoins, that is beauty of bitcoins that is why they are amazing!

[yrtrnc]

And just to clarify , by exchange I meant an exchange similar to GLBSE

[gweedo]

What I meant was rules and regulations can be imposed on business using bitcoin depending where they are.

What do you mean have at it?

There may be no rules and regulations in Bitcoin, although that does not mean rules and regulations cannot be enforced on Bitcoin.

There are no laws and regulations in bitcoins so have at it.

Actually it does mean that no rules or regulations can be enforced upon bitcoins, that is beauty of bitcoins that is why they are amazing!

Actually you can't impose regulations on a business that has no fiat currency. If you deal with fiat currency and bitcoins then you have to pay taxes, and do everything by the book. But if you use only bitcoins then you don't have to worry.

[chrisrico]

Actually you can't impose regulations on a business that has no fiat currency. If you deal with fiat currency and bitcoins then you have to pay taxes, and do everything by the book. But if you use only bitcoins then you don't have to worry.

The men with guns can enforce whatever regulations on you that they wish. To think otherwise is fantasy.

Is it right that they do this? No, but they do it anyway.

[yrtrnc]

How about in the case of GLBSE?

What I meant was rules and regulations can be imposed on business using bitcoin depending where they are.

What do you mean have at it?

There may be no rules and regulations in Bitcoin, although that does not mean rules and regulations cannot be enforced on Bitcoin.

There are no laws and regulations in bitcoins so have at it.

Actually it does mean that no rules or regulations can be enforced upon bitcoins, that is beauty of bitcoins that is why they are amazing!

Actually you can't impose regulations on a business that has no fiat currency. If you deal with fiat currency and bitcoins then you have to pay taxes, and do everything by the book. But if you use only bitcoins then you don't have to worry.

[Stephen Gornick]

What if we could set up such an exchange were no laws and regulations existed?

What do you think of this idea?

I suspect the companies would need to be real corporations or LLCs in real jurisdictions (i.e., not Wirtland) -- just none that happen to have  securities laws that prohibit sales to the [online] public.  There probably is one or two of these countries that exist.

The thing is though that this is a righteous fight.  The laws to protect little old ladies from using their pensions to invest in "ocean front" swampland in Florida are no longer necessary.

Had it been possible that you or I, as a venture operating out of the U.S., could have IPO'd on GLBSE without that action likely being illegal to do then think of how many legitimate investment opportunities would have appeared.  Sure there would still be some risk chasers still putting coins in scams, but within two minutes of time on the forum, or IRC, a person can know roughly what type of warning flags exist.

The Crowdfunding ammendment in the U.S. still won't allow trading of shares purchased for one year after buying them.  The genie is aleady out of the bottle though.  Kickstarter is not an equity platform but gave people a taste of what they want -- the ability to buy and trade equity in startups.   So if they can't get that from the U.S., they'll buy bitcoins and send them to wherever this service (equity crowdfunding) is offered.

[Edit: And, of course, it would be beneficial if that capital were to remain within the country.  Thus there will be a push to relax the regulation (to allow secondary markets, to allow foreign ownership of U.S. crowdfunded equity, etc.) or to apply tiers where micro-companies, under some threshold of equity valuation, can be formed with more leeway than firms above that threshold.]

[yrtrnc]

Yes, unfortunately it comes down to who has the biggest guns. I concur.

Actually you can't impose regulations on a business that has no fiat currency. If you deal with fiat currency and bitcoins then you have to pay taxes, and do everything by the book. But if you use only bitcoins then you don't have to worry.

The men with guns can enforce whatever regulations on you that they wish. To think otherwise is fantasy.

Is it right that they do this? No, but they do it anyway.

[gweedo]

How about in the case of GLBSE?

What I meant was rules and regulations can be imposed on business using bitcoin depending where they are.

What do you mean have at it?

There may be no rules and regulations in Bitcoin, although that does not mean rules and regulations cannot be enforced on Bitcoin.

There are no laws and regulations in bitcoins so have at it.

Actually it does mean that no rules or regulations can be enforced upon bitcoins, that is beauty of bitcoins that is why they are amazing!

Actually you can't impose regulations on a business that has no fiat currency. If you deal with fiat currency and bitcoins then you have to pay taxes, and do everything by the book. But if you use only bitcoins then you don't have to worry.

He never claimed any agency shut him down, and to be honest he thought he could be jailed but he obviously can't since there is no fiat currency and no bitcoin laws. Remember if bitcoins get shutdown or a business operating in the realm of bitcoins with no fiat currency gets shutdown, then second life, blizzard, and any virtual currency would be subject to being shutdown as well. So basically it will never happen.

[cedivad]

If you setup your company in the middle of the ocean and access it trought a fiber cable from 10Mm (mega meters, just for fun of scientific notions, 10000km) away, lets say you connect from Iceland, you would still have to comply with Iceland laws.

So the location really dosent matter, if not from a fiscal point of view.

[gweedo]

Actually you can't impose regulations on a business that has no fiat currency. If you deal with fiat currency and bitcoins then you have to pay taxes, and do everything by the book. But if you use only bitcoins then you don't have to worry.

The men with guns can enforce whatever regulations on you that they wish. To think otherwise is fantasy.

Is it right that they do this? No, but they do it anyway.

I am pretty sure that would violate many amendments and laws, and if that was true, why have no companies been shutdown or brought to trial?

[chrisrico]

If you setup your company in the middle of the ocean and access it trought a fiber cable from 10Mm (mega meters, just for fun of scientific notions, 10000km) away, lets say you connect from Iceland, you would still have to comply with Iceland laws.

So the location really dosent matter, if not from a fiscal point of view.

That's bullshit. Having internet connectivity with a country does not subject you to their laws. What if you connect to the internet via satellite?

[yrtrnc]

Im talking about a country with no rules.

If you setup your company in the middle of the ocean and access it trought a fiber cable from 10Mm (mega meters, just for fun of scientific notions, 10000km) away, lets say you connect from Iceland, you would still have to comply with Iceland laws.

So the location really dosent matter, if not from a fiscal point of view.

[chrisrico]

I am pretty sure that would violate many amendments and laws, and if that was true, why have no companies been shutdown or brought to trial?

The men with guns make the laws and determine how they are applied. There probably have been some that were shut down, though I don't know who off the top of my head. More common is for them to fall in line and comply with all regulations the regulators say apply, under threat of violence.

[gweedo]

I am pretty sure that would violate many amendments and laws, and if that was true, why have no companies been shutdown or brought to trial?

The men with guns make the laws and determine how they are applied. There probably have been some that were shut down, though I don't know who off the top of my head. More common is for them to fall in line and comply with all regulations the regulators say apply, under threat of violence.

Until there is any court case, your arguments is invalid, and the people who fall in line are just not strong enough to handle bleeding edge communities like this.

[Progresso]

Just move all the legal stuff around Bitcoins to Honduras. The government overthere is eager to set up "charter cities". Honduras is set to host one of the world's most radical neo-liberal economic experiments under a plan to build from scratch the rules, roads and rafters of a "charter city" for foreign investors.

The Central American nation hopes the plan for model development zones, which will have their own laws, tax system, judiciary and police, will emulate the economic success of city states such as Singapore and Hong Kong.

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