With GLBSE gone, we can start fresh on new lands.

[Stephen Gornick]

Please, check our site  at: www.therockexchange.com

Did you forget your URL?

 - https://www.therocktrading.com

[eliale]

:-) thank you!

[chrisrico]

The Rock has a platform capable to handle Bitcoin Companies.

It is just enough to ask your companies to move at our exchange and you’ll be able to freely trade again 24/7.

We are small but been around since 2007 in the virtual worlds.

Please, check our site  at: www.therockexchange.com

Thank you!

In what way(s) are no you susceptible to a situation similar to that which has occurred to GLBSE, namely coercion by state authorities?

[eliale]

The Rock has a platform capable to handle Bitcoin Companies.

It is just enough to ask your companies to move at our exchange and you’ll be able to freely trade again 24/7.

We are small but been around since 2007 in the virtual worlds.

Please, check our site  at: www.therockexchange.com

Thank you!

In what way(s) are no you susceptible to a situation similar to that which has occurred to GLBSE, namely coercion by state authorities?

First of all are we sure coercion happened?

At the present time there are no laws forbidding bitcoins trades or the use of a bitcoin stock exchange.  Of course, in the future, someone somewhere may decide to try to regulate it and, in that case, we will apply for any license required if need it or worth it.

[coincollectingenterprises]

A business that is a legitimate business is formed and operates under laws pertaining to various things. In the United States, a business must follow Federal law and State law appropriate to both where the business is registered, headquartered, and operates (which may be one State or include many States).

So to suggest that operating exclusively in Bitcoins puts the business outside of laws regulations is like saying a business located in the U.S. that only operates in Euro or Yuan does not have to follow the appropriate laws and regulations.

After all, Bitcoins is a currency, is it not? Perhaps if the concept of Bitcoin was not a currency, but just a tradable good, then a business would have much greater flexibility and would only really have legal scenarios pop up when dealing with gains created from cashing out of said good.

[jojo69]

But a bitcoin business does not necessarily operate in any physical place.  It does not really "exist" at all.

There is no jurisdiction for realms of the mind, and I declare war on any that propose it.

[eliale]

A business that is a legitimate business is formed and operates under laws pertaining to various things. In the United States, a business must follow Federal law and State law appropriate to both where the business is registered, headquartered, and operates (which may be one State or include many States).

So to suggest that operating exclusively in Bitcoins puts the business outside of laws regulations is like saying a business located in the U.S. that only operates in Euro or Yuan does not have to follow the appropriate laws and regulations.

After all, Bitcoins is a currency, is it not? Perhaps if the concept of Bitcoin was not a currency, but just a tradable good, then a business would have much greater flexibility and would only really have legal scenarios pop up when dealing with gains created from cashing out of said good.

Bitcoin is not yet a Currency.

However, I agree with the fact that a Company must follow local laws.  But, for example, if I have a Company which pays its taxes, follow local laws and trades Bitcoins (I could trade Monopoly money as well), there is no reason why local Gov. should close me or request to be registered as a financial company/brokerage company.

Take a look at Linden Lab.  They have been in business in the State of California for years now and they do have their own "virtual Currency, The Linden"  moving millions..... but, because Linden is not a Fiat Currency, they do have to follow the Law like any other company without being considered a Financial institution.

[coincollectingenterprises]

A business that is a legitimate business is formed and operates under laws pertaining to various things. In the United States, a business must follow Federal law and State law appropriate to both where the business is registered, headquartered, and operates (which may be one State or include many States).

So to suggest that operating exclusively in Bitcoins puts the business outside of laws regulations is like saying a business located in the U.S. that only operates in Euro or Yuan does not have to follow the appropriate laws and regulations.

After all, Bitcoins is a currency, is it not? Perhaps if the concept of Bitcoin was not a currency, but just a tradable good, then a business would have much greater flexibility and would only really have legal scenarios pop up when dealing with gains created from cashing out of said good.

Bitcoin is not yet a Currency.

However, I agree with the fact that a Company must follow local laws.  But, for example, if I have a Company which pays its taxes, follow local laws and trades Bitcoins (I could trade Monopoly money as well), there is no reason why local Gov. should close me or request to be registered as a financial company/brokerage company.

Take a look at Linden Lab.  They have been in business in the State of California for years now and they do have their own "virtual Currency, The Linden"  moving millions..... but, because Linden is not a Fiat Currency, they do have to follow the Law like any other company without being considered a Financial institution.

I don't understand. All definitions I have ever seen state Bitcoin is a currency. Even if only two people use it, it still is a currency, right (accepted medium of exchange). But I'm also not suggesting a business should be closed down. I'm just stating that the Bitcoins need to have a value associated with the local currency. Think accounting assets, liabilities, stockholder/blah blah blah. If you own a truck in a business, you have to give it a value whether as an expense involving cost for purchase or asset as far as a value associated with it, or maybe it has a car loan. You could "trade" the truck as medium of exchange, but it still has to have a value associated with it.

Also to comment on the bitcoin business does not need a physical place, that may be true BUT I keep seeing over and over again how people want existing businesses to accept bitcoins to help grow the bitcoin market. Well MOST businesses, whether they physically exist or not from a retail standpoint still need a physical registered location to legally operate.

[bbit]

Why does that URL get re-directed here: http://www.alex-silva.com/    ?

[Gareth Nelson]

3 options to do something without as much risk as GLBSE:

1 - Setup a proper incorporated company, get all government licensing etc - this may not be popular in these parts, but it's actually perhaps the best way to avoid unwelcome regulatory attention - appease rather than fight

2 - Setup a tor hidden service - this makes things a lot more shady-looking, and also means the service can't be trusted by investors either (you could disappear without being tracked down, taking everyone's funds with you)

3 - Some kind of P2P setup - this could possibly be done using an alternate blockchain where each unit is a share, the problem is that the semantics of mining don't quite make sense - you'd have to buy "blank" shares from a mined block and that would cost money - which defeats the purpose of fundraising - there's probably a more clever way to handle this problem but it'll require a lot of thought

[justusranvier]

3 options to do something without as much risk as GLBSE:

1 - Setup a proper incorporated company, get all government licensing etc - this may not be popular in these parts, but it's actually perhaps the best way to avoid unwelcome regulatory attention - appease rather than fight

2 - Setup a tor hidden service - this makes things a lot more shady-looking, and also means the service can't be trusted by investors either (you could disappear without being tracked down, taking everyone's funds with you)

3 - Some kind of P2P setup - this could possibly be done using an alternate blockchain where each unit is a share, the problem is that the semantics of mining don't quite make sense - you'd have to buy "blank" shares from a mined block and that would cost money - which defeats the purpose of fundraising - there's probably a more clever way to handle this problem but it'll require a lot of thought

2 + 3, where 3 is something like this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92421.0;all

[ShireSilver]

3 - Some kind of P2P setup - this could possibly be done using an alternate blockchain where each unit is a share, the problem is that the semantics of mining don't quite make sense - you'd have to buy "blank" shares from a mined block and that would cost money - which defeats the purpose of fundraising - there's probably a more clever way to handle this problem but it'll require a lot of thought

Well, having the initial share purchase be at some cost would give miners a reason to mine that blockchain. There could also be small transaction costs. The initial purchase price could be very small compared to the IPO price.

For example, Acme Rockets could buy 10,000 blank shares from Miner B for 0.0001btc each, mark them somehow as being Acme Rocket shares (perhaps as part of the initial purchase process), and resell them as now properly branded shares for 0.01btc each. Investor C buys 500@0.01btc, paying an additional 0.00005btc/share which goes to the miner that confirms the block.

I am still wondering how splits would work though, as well as what price and transaction cost levels would suffice for miners.

[becoin]

lets say you connect from Iceland, you would still have to comply with Iceland laws.

You can connect from space.

[Stephen Gornick]

A related thread:

Crowdfunding: Potential Legal Disaster Waiting To Happen
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119845.0

[danystatic]

Yes, unfortunately it comes down to who has the biggest guns. I concur.

Actually you can't impose regulations on a business that has no fiat currency. If you deal with fiat currency and bitcoins then you have to pay taxes, and do everything by the book. But if you use only bitcoins then you don't have to worry.

The men with guns can enforce whatever regulations on you that they wish. To think otherwise is fantasy.

Is it right that they do this? No, but they do it anyway.

Someone had this problem, so if he just gave his application to an unknown, and that person hosted in an anonymous hosting site, under his responsibility,  then there is a change not to worry?