Please suggest a good value Smart Phone... that can...

[BkkCoins]

I may pick up a Smart Phone someday.

I'd like an Android based one because I like Linux and tinkering. I'd be looking for a cheap or second hand one that is capable and has good functionality without being the latest greatest toy. It needs to be fairly small/compact - not a monster phone, as I prefer it being as light and easy to carry as my regular mobile phone.

I'd prefer one that doesn't have some lame limitations that prevent future upgrades or usability but I know nothing about what's available. What do I need? Well, mostly just a bitcoin wallet, for handling mobile transactions. I could see an ssh app being useful for server admin if such a thing is available.

Any suggestions for a decent model/brand? Samsung / HTC?

(Please don't suggest anything Apple as I won't own their products)

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[Stephen Gornick]

I may pick up a Smart Phone someday.

I'd like an Android based one because I like Linux and tinkering. I'd be looking for a cheap or second hand one that is capable and has good functionality without being the latest greatest toy. It needs to be fairly small/compact - not a monster phone, as I prefer it being as light and easy to carry as my regular mobile phone.

I'd prefer one that doesn't have some lame limitations that prevent future upgrades or usability but I know nothing about what's available. What do I need? Well, mostly just a bitcoin wallet, for handling mobile transactions. I could see an ssh app being useful for server admin if such a thing is available.

Any suggestions for a decent model/brand? Samsung / HTC?

$115 Virgin Wireless no-contract LG Optimus Elite (with NFC), Free Shipping

 - http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Virgin-Mobile---LG-Optimus-Elite-Mobile-Phone---Black/5177574.p?id=1218635228899&skuId=5177574

(This was $99 recently, maybe it will go back on sale some day.)

[BkkCoins]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll have to look around here. I realized after reading that I probably have non-typical requirements that might make it hard for most posters here to help much. When I asked the question I didn't think very much about what I'd need.

Since I'm in Thailand I'd actually need a phone that would work internationally (preferred) or at least here. I'm not sure if CDMA is the norm here or even outside the USA. I think they use GSM or something here. I guess I'll have to research it locally first.

Maybe what I need to work out is a short list of features I should have. For example, looking at that phone most of the features seem good for my needs. I forgot I'd like to play music and videos as then it can replace my Sansa Fuze w/Rockbox.

eg.
Android Gingerbread 2.3.7 (is that decent?)
5 Mpix camera
microSD slot
Wifi connectivity (no need for 3G but wouldn't turn it down)
MP3 and MPG playback, though being able to use something like Rockbox would be better
No contracts, and can use anywhere.

I'm not much of a phone user. I probably don't even need a phone but I'd like a mobile bitcoin wallet with music/video player. I would use my Fuze but it cannot connect to the net.

[Puppet]

Sounds like just about any current android phone would do for you, and the vast majority of <2 year old used android phones on ebay.
Forget about the "5Mpx" camera though, I have a 8MP camera thats total crap, and an old 3MP that actually makes quite decent photo's. MP is a useless metric. On mobile phones you have terrible, bad and mediocre camera's, but the pixel density wont tell you which is which. Rule of thumb: just assume its a terrible camera.

Android 2.3.x is still quite decent. Perhaps in the  future it will no longer be able to run the latest software, and you will need 4.x, but for now, it still works absolutely fine.

Anyway, if you want a specific product, perhaps look for a used LG optimus one. Its old, its got a low res screen, but they are well built, nice form factor, great display (aside from its resolution), good battery life and cheap. They are not exactly speed deamons, but will handle lightweight bitcoin clients (bitspinner, mywallet) with ease and SSH should be even less of a problem, although the low screen res will bite you there. Samsung Galaxy Gio and all the small/cheap galaxy's should be a good choice too.

[BkkCoins]

Sounds like just about any current android phone would do for you, and the vast majority of <2 year old used android phones on ebay.
Forget about the "5Mpx" camera though, I have a 8MP camera thats total crap, and an old 3MP that actually makes quite decent photo's. MP is a useless metric. On mobile phones you have terrible, bad and mediocre camera's, but the pixel density wont tell you which is which. Rule of thumb: just assume its a terrible camera.

Android 2.3.x is still quite decent. Perhaps in the  future it will no longer be able to run the latest software, and you will need 4.x, but for now, it still works absolutely fine.

Thanks. That helps a lot because I'm not up on what's current. I wasn't worried much about the camera as long as it can read a QR code and do basic crap snapshots it'll be fine. I had a Canon 20D and know a fair bit about photography so I wouldn't plan on using any phone cam for much more than perhaps toy camera effects. I'm going to pick up a used 5D someday as well for actual photography.

[Puppet]

updated my post with some actual recommendations.

[BkkCoins]

updated my post with some actual recommendations.

Saw that. Thanks again. Will check ebay as I often get stuff there and have it forwarded to me here.

[BkkCoins]

Do all these Samsung/LG Android phones work with standard ear buds? I have ear buds I don't want to replace yet.
Thx.

[Puppet]

I used to have an older galaxy that wouldnt work with earbuds I already had. Sound was terribly distorted. I think it was an impedance problem, Im not sure, the earbuds of the galaxy would work with all my other devices. With the LG and my newer phones Ive been able to swap earbuds with no problems

[BkkCoins]

I used to have an older galaxy that wouldnt work with earbuds I already had. Sound was terribly distorted. I think it was an impedance problem, Im not sure, the earbuds of the galaxy would work with all my other devices. With the LG and my newer phones Ive been able to swap earbuds with no problems

Thx.

[Distribution]

I agree with picking any incarnation of the LG Optimus. I had one that finally broke after dropping it a million times. But it was small, great for carrying around Bitcoins. I actually fixed it to use for carrying Bitcoins and as a VoIP phone. But then I somehow broke it again. I've seen that this is a very popular model with people who use Bitcoin.

[BkkCoins]

I've checked a lot of phone features now as I tried to explore more about these things. I'd love to have one of the newer hi-res Android 4 phones but given the price ($400-600) it's just not going to happen soon. So, later maybe.

Looking at my needs and phone spec sheets I've narrowed it down to the Samsung Gio S5660 and LG Optimus One P500. Both apparently very similar phones. Both Quad band and 3G 900/2100 - the specs I need here for service. In Thailand the 2100 band is not yet being used so providers are split between 850 and 900 with the better ones coverage wise using 900. (The 2100 band is on the verge of being assigned and should be available before long. But it sounds like internationally this is what most countries/providers are using.) Samsung model has n-band wifi but LG doesn't. n-band has never made much difference for me though. Samsung also has a bit faster CPU for whatever that's worth, 800 vs. 600. Same chipset but turbo version or not. Seems faster CPU results in lower battery time too.

Local purchase would be easier for any problems but finding these models locally isn't that easy - I may end up buying online. Seems the current price range is $90-$130 for the LG and a bit higher for the Samsung. I've noticed that you really need to watch the model codes as an extra letter can mean that it uses different bands.

The models available locally for about the same price have lower screen res. eg. Samsung Y Duos S6102 is 240x320 res (maybe just too low?) but (nice) dual sim card and otherwise similar.

I'm very likely to be rooting and putting on Cyanogen as that sounds cool. None of these phones appear to have very good music quality specs. Both indicate -84-85db S/N which is not so great.

Thanks for your help.

[Puppet]

You could go for a cheap chinese knock-off. They are surprisingly good, the only problem with them is usually the software (crappy android ports), but if you dont mind rooting and using custom ROMs, thats not that big of a problem. You can find qHD dual sim phones on ebay for $150-170. Search for  MTK6575 or MTK6577 (latter being dual cores). They are very decent performers (way faster than the phones you are looking at), I have one myself,  biggest issue is poor battery life. It struggles to last a day.

[BkkCoins]

As much as I hate the idea of buying name brands only I probably won't go with a Chinese knock off. I've just had way too much trouble with crappy Chinese stuff. I know the name brands are made in China too! But for some reason the no-name junk just never works right. I'm on my second crappola Chinese cordless mouse and both of them continually cut out for 10 seconds every so often. Next one is absolutely going to be a Logitech despite it costing more. I've bought a fair bit of Chinese stuff on eBay from HK as well. Sometimes it's just ok and other things have been outright garbage. Like 9db wifi antennas that do worse than the 3db stock one.

Thanks for letting me know these knock offs exist but I'm very hesitant now to anything like this unless it's in the throw away cost bracket.

Edit: some of those sure look nice for the price but so far all the ones I checked were 3G - 850/2100 bands but I need 900/2100 anyway. So tempting though. Dual Sim, Dual Core, 540*960 res. Mmm.

[jago25_98]

Puppet: Any idea why the Chinese phones have such poor battery life?

I searched for a long while to find a decent replacement battery for my phones: Galaxy,Droid,w850i,e71 etc.

What I found is that:

- generally the batteries are lithium-ion anyway now do less need to worry about getting one of those
- there are so many fakes ordering from anywhere but directly from the manufacturer is risky. Certainly with common battery types. Got stung for a Nokia BP E71 battery from a shop this way. The only way I was able to tell was that it was marked as Li-ion rather than li-poly
- all those "gold business batteries" aren't a good bet. Some of them can be ok but it's a minefield trying to find the ok ones. The capacity statements stating better performance than standard batteries in the same size are lies; you can't get more capacity in the same weight so weigh them. i.e. The 1700mah Mugen for the Galaxy replacing the 1600mah is a little bigger and bends the back slightly
- mugen and there's another premium battery maker that does good ones but they tend to be so expensive an official one would be a better bet
- there is one decent make I've found on dinodirect which I forget the name of. They sound japanese. The price is way better than mugen but they clearly put a lot of effort into producing something more classy than other battery makers.

So now I wonder,
 perhaps we can get a better battery replacement for the Chinese clone phones? Or fit a bigger battery?

Or is there something else causing the poor battery life. Any ideas what that could be?

I'm looking for a phone with a smaller screen but same size battery and thus a longer battery life. I currently have a Galaxy S, which is fine but the GPS has died and so a replacement might be a good idea.

edit:
XDA Thread for anyone interested in reading more about the Chinese clones:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33092969#post33092969

[Wekkel]

If you really want it small but powerfull enough, look for a HTC Desire S. It's 3.7", has got a front cam and is the best compromise I ever had in terms of screen size and portability. I'm not sure but I believe it got an official upgrade to Android 4.0.

But you shouldn't overpay compared to the 6577 models that come from China nowadays.

[Jermainé]

just get the pantech burst. its 99 cent through at&t.

[moni3z]

Go on the Android source page and look up the devices for which you can build AOSP for yourself, in my case I bought a Samsung Nexus S used for $200 off craigslist because all versions work for building lastest release of AOSP.

http://source.android.com/source/building-devices.html

"With the current release, it is possible to build for Nexus 7, for some variants of Galaxy Nexus, for a variant of the Motorola Xoom, and for all variants of Nexus S and Nexus S 4G"

Now you can tinker away with SEandroid, removing garbage packages, whatever you want, though you need recommended 16G ram and multi cores to build AOSP without waiting until the end of days, cost me $450 to slap a multi core AMD box together just for this purpose

[grishnakh]

I'm currently interested in getting a Xiaomi mi-2, or the cheaper 1 model. Check them out.

[Puppet]

Puppet: Any idea why the Chinese phones have such poor battery life?

I searched for a long while to find a decent replacement battery for my phones: Galaxy,Droid,w850i,e71 etc.

I dont think the problem is with the battery themselves, I suspect its the cellular chips and CPU/GPU that may not be quite as power efficient as tier 1 brands. For instance, I notice a significant hit when keeping GPS on (which really shouldnt use that much power) and when gaming, my MTK6575 battery will drain ridiculously fast. Then again,  even an iphone 4S will only last 3 hours of 3D gaming and most >4" smartphones will struggle to last a day under heavy use, its not like this is an issue only with chinese phones. 

Also note that with most MTK657x phones, you get 2 batteries. There is no easy way to charge the second battery, so its not as useful as it might be, but at least you already have a spare. By the time both batteries have died, the phone will be outdated anyway, so I dont worry too much about it.

Last point,  if battery life is a prime concern, have a look at the Oppo T29. It comes with a 3000mAH battery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGHKVR__ii0
Unfortunately its running a customized android without play store atm, so Id wait for a modified ROM, but im keeping an eye on it.