[CLOSED] GLBSE drama

[capn noe]

Who's going to make the forum?

Will BitVPN host it?

[reeses]

Well fuck me, I agree with LG... for once! Hats off to you sir. This whole thing is compromised. Where do we congregate next BTC community?

One should examine what is broken about this one before repeating the same mistakes.

Is it this forum, is it the leadership of this forum, is it a personality type, is it ...because bitcoin?

Again, I am a big fan of federated autonomous units.  With PGP auth, one can have the same account on multiple forum sites.  No need for SSO, OAuth, OpenID, etc.

If you're fans of Ted Nelson's ideas with Xanadu, you'll understand where I'm coming from.  I'd be happy to host sites on "fuck you, that's why," hardware innovation (although I think the per-vendor sites are a smart move), compliance (tax and legal), ideology and propaganda, and meta-forum-platform development, but I don't want to touch buying and selling, "exchanges," "securities," and all that other mess.  I'm sure someone who is interested in those topics and willing to accept the risks would pick those up.

And I'm not saying,"these belong to me," with that list.  I'm hoping that several people with both development (whether product management, execution, testing, design) ability and hosting capability will be able to step up and contribute to their area(s) of interest.

Think stackexchange, with a more suitable structure, and not owned by the same entity.  But bitcoin.

Let a million fora boom.

[Fjordbit]

Well, give us a link and we'll check it out. But the problem with starting a new forum is getting a returning user base that contributes. It's the same network effect that is now giving bitcoin its strength. Because of the permutations of the participants, the power of a network is proportional to the square of the nodes, and right now bitcointalk has the most power in that regard, with /r/bitcoin probably in second place.

Setting up the software for a forum is the easy part. Getting the community is an art.

[mc_lovin]

Who's going to make the forum?

Will BitVPN host it?

http://www.bitcointrading.com/    come one come all

[heatstroke]

Well, give us a link and we'll check it out. But the problem with starting a new forum is getting a returning user base that contributes. It's the same network effect that is now giving bitcoin its strength. Because of the permutations of the participants, the power of a network is proportional to the square of the nodes, and right now bitcointalk has the most power in that regard, with /r/bitcoin probably in second place.

Setting up the software for a forum is the easy part. Getting the community is an art.

You could easily set up a forum where you pay $10 to join, where the mods will drop the hammer if they even smell a whiff of scams, ponzis, cargo cult securities, furries, Atlas or dank.  Then you could have a solid community of people actually trying to make bitcoin into something useful, instead of the infinite loop of scams and scam accusations.

Or make it into a massive brain trust that makes the biggest ponzi in bitcoin history.

[capn noe]

That, or commit to moving to the first forum that has the features that are outlined here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50617.0

[mc_lovin]

That, or commit to moving to the first forum that has the features that are outlined here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50617.0

Well, if you're looking for a forum run by actual human beings and one that will see upgrades and enhancements on a regular basis, not just new limitations, you should be considering us at www.bitcointrading.com!  Now running on a dedicated server, 861 members and counting!

[Phinnaeus Gage]

That, or commit to moving to the first forum that has the features that are outlined here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50617.0

I remember that thread.

<shave>

The forum has about 650 760 920 1120 1720 2267 3000 BTC on hand at this moment, but you can bid more than that. If your bid is the best, I'll just wait until the forum has collected the required amount of money.

<hair cut>

I guess $3,000 wasn't enough to get the new forum up and running. I'll assume it's still in escrow somewhere.

~Bruno~

[capn noe]

I guess $3,000 wasn't enough to get the new forum up and running. I'll assume it's still in escrow somewhere.

~Bruno~

More like $35,000

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I guess $3,000 wasn't enough to get the new forum up and running. I'll assume it's still in escrow somewhere.

~Bruno~

More like $35,000

Note to self: Never do math on this laptop when reading this forum after waking up from a wet dream to take an early morning long shit.

I just checked to see how I erred and realized there was no math involved. It was during the quote/snip stage where I saw all those s's in the strikethrough tags and must have envisioned them as the dollar sign. I can't wait to finish this shit to get back to my wet dream.

Fine! $35K then. I can't wait to join.

~Bruno~

[reeses]

That, or commit to moving to the first forum that has the features that are outlined here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50617.0

If the forum is dependent on features and not content, then it is not worthwhile.  You might as well go to Iggy Planet and set up shop there.

If you make excuses not to improve your life, you will always make the safe choice, and that path leads down to stagnation.

There is a bitcoin stackexchange beta, and as mentioned, /r/bitcoin.  The advantage of these over SMF is that you can smash people's arguments into invisibility by voting them down.

[BadBear]

Maged- what say you? Does he get a scammer tag for his involvement in this? Do the other owners of GBLSE get the scammer tag for the exact same reasons as nefario?

You seem to be mistaken about why Nefario got the scammer tag, it's not at all comparable.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115669.msg1258773#msg1258773

[Rarity]

If he's being forced by other parties to shut down the service because it's illegal, he's still the one who decided to open the service and he's still ultimately responsible for that. He caused financial loss to his investors by not doing his due diligence beforehand to make sure he would be able to keep his agreement.

Investors should have done their due diligence as well, but the buck doesn't stop there, and that doesn't let Nefario off the hook.

The owners are partners with him and knew damn well it was illegal, they even apparently were trying to sell out because Nefario wanted to come clean to the regulators.  

It sounds like you are judging one partner in the scam a scammer based on what you have been told of the internal politics of their illegal operation while ignoring that the partners in this illegal business are not the victims here.  You aren't moderators of their privately run criminal enterprise, you are moderators of this forum.  

The scam is GLBSE as an organization.

[Bitcoin Oz]

If he's being forced by other parties to shut down the service because it's illegal, he's still the one who decided to open the service and he's still ultimately responsible for that. He caused financial loss to his investors by not doing his due diligence beforehand to make sure he would be able to keep his agreement.

Investors should have done their due diligence as well, but the buck doesn't stop there, and that doesn't let Nefario off the hook.

The owners are partners with him and knew damn well it was illegal, they even apparently were trying to sell out because Nefario wanted to come clean to the regulators.  

It sounds like you are judging one partner in the scam a scammer based on what you have been told of the internal politics of their illegal operation while ignoring that the partners in this illegal business are not the victims here.  You aren't moderators of their privately run criminal enterprise, you are moderators of this forum.  

The scam is GLBSE as an organization.

We didnt know it was illegal at all. I didnt ask a lawyer before using bitcoin either.

[BadBear]

If he's being forced by other parties to shut down the service because it's illegal, he's still the one who decided to open the service and he's still ultimately responsible for that. He caused financial loss to his investors by not doing his due diligence beforehand to make sure he would be able to keep his agreement.

Investors should have done their due diligence as well, but the buck doesn't stop there, and that doesn't let Nefario off the hook.

The owners are partners with him and knew damn well it was illegal, they even apparently were trying to sell out because Nefario wanted to come clean to the regulators.  

It sounds like you are judging one partner in the scam a scammer based on what you have been told of the internal politics of their illegal operation while ignoring that the partners in this illegal business are not the victims here.  You aren't moderators of their privately run criminal enterprise, you are moderators of this forum.  

The scam is GLBSE as an organization.

I don't know if it's illegal or not, like you said I'm just a mod. That's not the issue here. I care that he breached his contract multiple times and defrauded investors.

And I wasn't told anything, I was provided chat logs and everything else I asked for, and verified that Nefario was acting on his own, against the will of the shareholders, without so much as asking for their opinion, much less a shareholder vote.

You can believe what you want though, doesn't much matter to me. Just setting the record straight.

[Rarity]

If he's being forced by other parties to shut down the service because it's illegal, he's still the one who decided to open the service and he's still ultimately responsible for that. He caused financial loss to his investors by not doing his due diligence beforehand to make sure he would be able to keep his agreement.

Investors should have done their due diligence as well, but the buck doesn't stop there, and that doesn't let Nefario off the hook.

The owners are partners with him and knew damn well it was illegal, they even apparently were trying to sell out because Nefario wanted to come clean to the regulators.  

It sounds like you are judging one partner in the scam a scammer based on what you have been told of the internal politics of their illegal operation while ignoring that the partners in this illegal business are not the victims here.  You aren't moderators of their privately run criminal enterprise, you are moderators of this forum.  

The scam is GLBSE as an organization.

We didnt know it was illegal at all. I didnt ask a lawyer before using bitcoin either.

Some clearly did, such as Theymos who was upset that Nefario would go to the authorities in relation to the criminal actions.  Regardless, ignorance of the law is not an excuse.  You are still responsible for the actions of the organization you were involved with.

[Bitcoin Oz]

If he's being forced by other parties to shut down the service because it's illegal, he's still the one who decided to open the service and he's still ultimately responsible for that. He caused financial loss to his investors by not doing his due diligence beforehand to make sure he would be able to keep his agreement.

Investors should have done their due diligence as well, but the buck doesn't stop there, and that doesn't let Nefario off the hook.

The owners are partners with him and knew damn well it was illegal, they even apparently were trying to sell out because Nefario wanted to come clean to the regulators.  

It sounds like you are judging one partner in the scam a scammer based on what you have been told of the internal politics of their illegal operation while ignoring that the partners in this illegal business are not the victims here.  You aren't moderators of their privately run criminal enterprise, you are moderators of this forum.  

The scam is GLBSE as an organization.

Its closer to entrapment than anything. Its not like hes a fucking whistleblower.

[Rarity]

If he's being forced by other parties to shut down the service because it's illegal, he's still the one who decided to open the service and he's still ultimately responsible for that. He caused financial loss to his investors by not doing his due diligence beforehand to make sure he would be able to keep his agreement.

Investors should have done their due diligence as well, but the buck doesn't stop there, and that doesn't let Nefario off the hook.

The owners are partners with him and knew damn well it was illegal, they even apparently were trying to sell out because Nefario wanted to come clean to the regulators.  

It sounds like you are judging one partner in the scam a scammer based on what you have been told of the internal politics of their illegal operation while ignoring that the partners in this illegal business are not the victims here.  You aren't moderators of their privately run criminal enterprise, you are moderators of this forum.  

The scam is GLBSE as an organization.

I don't know if it's illegal or not, like you said I'm just a mod. That's not the issue here. I care that he breached his contract multiple times and defrauded investors.

And I wasn't told anything, I was provided chat logs and everything else I asked for, and verified that Nefario was acting on his own, against the will of the shareholders, without so much as asking for their opinion, much less a shareholder vote.

You can believe what you want though, doesn't much matter to me. Just setting the record straight.

You are expert enough to adjudicate breach of contract when it comes time to brand one side in the internal GLBSE dispute as a scammer but suddenly confused and "just a moderator" when it comes to others.  Including Theymos who is a partner in GLBSE and admitted it was an unregulated black market and therefore illegal and then knowingly took action to sell shares in a product that was worthless due to the illegality right here on these forums.

You should moderate the actions of people who knowingly sell junk a investment on these forums, not go combing through the IRC logs of private illegal businesses to take sides in an internal dispute.  

[Bitcoin Oz]

If he's being forced by other parties to shut down the service because it's illegal, he's still the one who decided to open the service and he's still ultimately responsible for that. He caused financial loss to his investors by not doing his due diligence beforehand to make sure he would be able to keep his agreement.

Investors should have done their due diligence as well, but the buck doesn't stop there, and that doesn't let Nefario off the hook.

The owners are partners with him and knew damn well it was illegal, they even apparently were trying to sell out because Nefario wanted to come clean to the regulators.  

It sounds like you are judging one partner in the scam a scammer based on what you have been told of the internal politics of their illegal operation while ignoring that the partners in this illegal business are not the victims here.  You aren't moderators of their privately run criminal enterprise, you are moderators of this forum.  

The scam is GLBSE as an organization.

We didnt know it was illegal at all. I didnt ask a lawyer before using bitcoin either.

Some clearly did, such as Theymos who was upset that Nefario would go to the authorities in relation to the criminal actions.  Regardless, ignorance of the law is not an excuse.  You are still responsible for the actions of the organization you were involved with.

 Nefario clearly misrepresented what was a sole owner operator as an actual company the shareholders got a vote in. Because when it came to the crunch it clearly wasnt. If we were actually owners Nefario couldnt do what he wanted. Meaning he lied the entire time since any motions we took in the end were simply ignored.

Normally a ceo cant just do whatever he wants so he wasnt ceo he was the sole owner operator. Its like sending bitcoins to a 401 nigerian scammer and him saying you own his company and get to vote. No, you dont own the company and he will take your money in the end.

[Rarity]

If he's being forced by other parties to shut down the service because it's illegal, he's still the one who decided to open the service and he's still ultimately responsible for that. He caused financial loss to his investors by not doing his due diligence beforehand to make sure he would be able to keep his agreement.

Investors should have done their due diligence as well, but the buck doesn't stop there, and that doesn't let Nefario off the hook.

The owners are partners with him and knew damn well it was illegal, they even apparently were trying to sell out because Nefario wanted to come clean to the regulators.  

It sounds like you are judging one partner in the scam a scammer based on what you have been told of the internal politics of their illegal operation while ignoring that the partners in this illegal business are not the victims here.  You aren't moderators of their privately run criminal enterprise, you are moderators of this forum.  

The scam is GLBSE as an organization.

We didnt know it was illegal at all. I didnt ask a lawyer before using bitcoin either.

Some clearly did, such as Theymos who was upset that Nefario would go to the authorities in relation to the criminal actions.  Regardless, ignorance of the law is not an excuse.  You are still responsible for the actions of the organization you were involved with.

 Nefario clearly misrepresented what was a sole owner operator as an actual company the shareholders got a vote in. Because when it came to the crunch it clearly wasnt. If we were actually owners Nefario couldnt do what he wanted. Meaning he lied the entire time since any motions we took in the end were simply ignored.

Normally a ceo cant just do whatever he wants so he wasnt ceo he was the sole owner operator. Its like sending bitcoins to a 401 nigerian scammer and him saying you own his company and get to vote. No, you dont own the company and he will take your money in the end.

I do not care about the politics of your internal dispute with your partner.  Settle your own disputes, this thread is about settling the actions of your business with the victims here of the meltdown.  

Theymos announced he was selling an investment product for a company that was operating outside the law.  He argued that the company should continue to refuse to comply with the law.

GLBSE should have been a black market operation, no offense. The fact that the founder is known and visible and that the exchange is centralized is a big red flag.

Agreed. I always argued that GLBSE should be an unregulated platform for trades.

Trying to sell an illegal investment product is a scam.  He did this in your name.  You should be just as upset as anyone.