[CLOSED] GLBSE drama

[oldschool]

Must not have been these funds.

May we have the public address of said paper wallet please, so that we may keep an eye on them?

I don't see any reason why this cannot be released. 18bEUAuzWg97swzHXzK4prGGYSBAMCUgz

The funds tied to that address are now in control of BG's secretary.

Which is bullshit, why send ~800btc more to be controlled by Nefario when he already has ~8000btc of illegally obtained funds?

What will giving Nefario ~800btc more do that he couldn't have done with the ~8000btc?

As I said, the funds were sent to the secretary, not Nefario. He only accepted them reluctantly (rather than have Theymos keep them) so that Nefario would have no reason to not begin dispersing customer funds.

Who exactly is BG's secretary?  Do they have a name on the forum, do they have a real name and public identity?  At this point I believe this should all be transparent given the circumstances.

Who exactly is BG's secretary?  Do they have a name on the forum, do they have a real name and public identity?  At this point I believe this should all be transparent given the circumstances.

I'm not comfortable revealing information about BitcoinGlobal shareholders which have not self identified, sorry.

See, the problem with this is you guys are knowingly transferring stolen funds to people who you are not willing to disclose, you should all get scammer tags, this forum is full of crooks and it appears to be run by a crook also.

I believe we have another name to add to the list of people who should get scammer tags "chrisrico".  I was not 100% in agreement with Theymos getting a scammer tag and being completly crooked until this bullshit...  These people are knowningly transferring stolen funds and then refusing to tell people who they were transferred to.

This forum is a fucking joke, Theymos you've destroyed your forum with this curroption.

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[Raize]

This is a credit rating and bail bond system. Also, you're posting something that was clearly public knowledge, not really good "evidence" for malfeasance, there. I still don't get where the "lied" and "falsely" part comes in.

In any event theymos no longer holds the claim to personal integrity required for being the administrator of this forum, or a principal in any other respectable bitcoin venture.

This I'd maybe be more inclined to agree with, but it took you 5 or 6 accusations to get there.

[MPOE-PR]

This I'd maybe be more inclined to agree with, but it took you 5 or 6 accusations to get there.

Nope, it's exactly in the first post.

[Bogart]

This is a credit rating and bail bond system. Also, you're posting something that was clearly public knowledge, not really good "evidence" for malfeasance, there. I still don't get where the "lied" and "falsely" part comes in.

The thread may be titled such, but in Nef's post it's pretty clear he's talking about the launch of GLBSE.

...we are launching the development of the Bticoin Stock Market...

I'm not trying to point out evidence for malfeasance or whatever.  Just showing that it has long been known (or knowable by reading that thread) who the Officers of GLBSE are (were?)

[LoupGaroux]

Maged- what say you? Does he get a scammer tag for his involvement in this? Do the other owners of GBLSE get the scammer tag for the exact same reasons as nefario?

You seem to be mistaken about why Nefario got the scammer tag, it's not at all comparable.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115669.msg1258773#msg1258773

Okay, your Honor, I stipulate that there is a difference in the precedent that obviates my original query. So, let's try this:

BadBear- what say you? Does material ownership of a now-locked up asset full of other people's bitcoins, a lack of control over the lunatic who is consistently not being accurate about what is happening with their jointly owned company, the allegations about ownership and attempted dumping of an asset, and the horrible communications surrounding theymos' involvement in GLBSE, along with that of the other owners of GLBSE warrant a scammer tag?

[Maged]

Again, I don't see the logic in the accusations; theymos (et al) were very straightforward with what was being sold and why they were selling it.

No, they were not.

So let me see if I got this straight, the current reasons I see for why theymos was not being straightforward with the sale of the GLBSE shares are:
1) He wasn't clear that he was selling shares for other people as well.
2) He didn't specify that he was the treasurer (I can't remember if this was true or not).

Anything else? Also, what reasons for selling were withheld? Could you also please explain why any one of the points you make or made actually matters with respect to misrepresenting what and why he was selling?

[Rarity]

Again, I don't see the logic in the accusations; theymos (et al) were very straightforward with what was being sold and why they were selling it.

No, they were not.

So let me see if I got this straight, the current reasons I see for why theymos was not being straightforward with the sale of the GLBSE shares are:
1) He wasn't clear that he was selling shares for other people as well.
2) He didn't specify that he was the treasurer (I can't remember if this was true or not).

Anything else? Also, what reasons for selling were withheld? Could you also please explain why any one of the points you make or made actually matters with respect to misrepresenting what and why he was selling?

Neither of those are my claims, the bias here from Theymos and his lackeys is absurd.  The scam was attempting to dump stock that was worthless because unregulated markets of this kind are illegal and the imminent legal action his insider status made him well aware of would obviously shutter the business.  

[imsaguy]

The scam was attempting to dump stock that was worthless

Selling something that you adjudge to be worthless isn't a scam.  They're called garage sales.  "One man's junk is another man's treasure."  Misrepresentation, if it occurred, is a whole different ballgame.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Again, I don't see the logic in the accusations; theymos (et al) were very straightforward with what was being sold and why they were selling it.

No, they were not.

So let me see if I got this straight, the current reasons I see for why theymos was not being straightforward with the sale of the GLBSE shares are:
1) He wasn't clear that he was selling shares for other people as well.
2) He didn't specify that he was the treasurer (I can't remember if this was true or not).

Anything else? Also, what reasons for selling were withheld? Could you also please explain why any one of the points you make or made actually matters with respect to misrepresenting what and why he was selling?

Neither of those are my claims, the bias here from Theymos and his lackeys is absurd.  The scam was attempting to dump stock that was worthless because unregulated markets of this kind are illegal and the imminent legal action his insider status made him well aware of would obviously shutter the business.  

How are they worthless ? Are shares in silk road worthless because its possibly illegal ?

[Rarity]

How are they worthless ? Are shares in silk road worthless because its possibly illegal ?

Any shares in a criminal organization are worthless because the government may confiscate them at any time.  In this situation however the funds were particularly worthless because the insider trader knew of the imminent legal action that would shut down the illegal operation. 

[Bitcoin Oz]

How are they worthless ? Are shares in silk road worthless because its possibly illegal ?

Any shares in a criminal organization are worthless because the government may confiscate them at any time.  In this situation however the funds were particularly worthless because the insider trader knew of the imminent legal action that would shut down the illegal operation. 

There was no legal action besides nefario supposedly speaking to a lawyer.

There is still no proof at all that any authorities have even spoken to Nefario and none of the shareholders have been contacted either.

[Rarity]

How are they worthless ? Are shares in silk road worthless because its possibly illegal ?

Any shares in a criminal organization are worthless because the government may confiscate them at any time.  In this situation however the funds were particularly worthless because the insider trader knew of the imminent legal action that would shut down the illegal operation. 

There was no legal action besides nefario supposedly speaking to a lawyer.

There is still no proof at all that any authorities have even spoken to Nefario and none of the shareholders have been contacted either.

Of course there is proof.  We have Nefario's testimony and the extreme reaction of his partners in crime who have tried to extort and scam their way out of holding the bag at the last moment.  The SEC will not act in haste or scream about what they are doing.  They handle these matters patiently. 

[Bitcoin Oz]

How are they worthless ? Are shares in silk road worthless because its possibly illegal ?

Any shares in a criminal organization are worthless because the government may confiscate them at any time.  In this situation however the funds were particularly worthless because the insider trader knew of the imminent legal action that would shut down the illegal operation. 

There was no legal action besides nefario supposedly speaking to a lawyer.

There is still no proof at all that any authorities have even spoken to Nefario and none of the shareholders have been contacted either.

Of course there is proof.  We have Nefario's testimony and the extreme reaction of his partners in crime who have tried to extort and scam their way out of holding the bag at the last moment.  The SEC will not act in haste or scream about what they are doing.  They handle these matters patiently. 

My official statement to the SEC

[tvbcof]

Again, I don't see the logic in the accusations; theymos (et al) were very straightforward with what was being sold and why they were selling it.

No, they were not.

So let me see if I got this straight, the current reasons I see for why theymos was not being straightforward with the sale of the GLBSE shares are:
1) He wasn't clear that he was selling shares for other people as well.
2) He didn't specify that he was the treasurer (I can't remember if this was true or not).

Anything else? Also, what reasons for selling were withheld? Could you also please explain why any one of the points you make or made actually matters with respect to misrepresenting what and why he was selling?

Neither of those are my claims, the bias here from Theymos and his lackeys is absurd.  The scam was attempting to dump stock that was worthless because unregulated markets of this kind are illegal and the imminent legal action his insider status made him well aware of would obviously shutter the business.  

That's conjecture, not fact as stated.  In fairness though it is not completely outside the range of reason.

I would expect someone who was a party to the sale to come forward with information about how disingenuous and deceptive ~theymos was if that were the case.  Still waiting so it well could be the case that potential serious buyers (if any) were completely comfortable with the legal status of the asset and any negotiations were considered straight by the effected parties.  Even if not, I've tended to consider the scammer tag to apply to people who invent schemes with pre-formed intentions of ripping people of, this event probably would not qualify as such.  For that matter it's debatable whether ~nefario's various exploits do either.

I still think there should be a tag for general plonkers who clearly cost people money even if it is not totally clear whether they are full-on scammers or just incompetent boobs.  Bitcoin Consultancy, fr'instance.

[Rarity]

I would expect someone who was a party to the sale to come forward with information about how disingenuous and deceptive ~theymos was if that were the case.

This will not occur, as Nefario's brave whistleblowing actions made the sale moot. 

[Maged]

Again, I don't see the logic in the accusations; theymos (et al) were very straightforward with what was being sold and why they were selling it.

No, they were not.

So let me see if I got this straight, the current reasons I see for why theymos was not being straightforward with the sale of the GLBSE shares are:
1) He wasn't clear that he was selling shares for other people as well.
2) He didn't specify that he was the treasurer (I can't remember if this was true or not).

Anything else? Also, what reasons for selling were withheld? Could you also please explain why any one of the points you make or made actually matters with respect to misrepresenting what and why he was selling?

Neither of those are my claims, the bias here from Theymos and his lackeys is absurd.

Then ignore my bias. It doesn't matter what I, individually, think. Your goal should be to convince everyone else. Of course, that doesn't make my questions any less valid.

Also, those reasons came from a quick skim of the thread, so I am legitimately curious to see if I missed anything.

The scam was attempting to dump stock that was worthless because unregulated markets of this kind are illegal and the imminent legal action his insider status made him well aware of would obviously shutter the business.  

This is not a matter of whether or not the shares were worthless. Potential buyers can decide the shares' value themselves. The question is, did Theymos misrepresent any information that could have prevented someone from assigning a fair value to those shares?

[stochastic]

Maged,

I believe if I don't get claim codes (or whatever they are) for the assets I hold, then shareholders of BitcoinGlobal should all get scammer tags.  What do you think?

[Rarity]

This is not a matter of whether or not the shares were worthless. Potential buyers can decide the shares' value themselves. The question is, did Theymos misrepresent any information that could have prevented someone from assigning a fair value to those shares?

Yes, he misrepresented the shares as having worth.  

[Maged]

Maged,

I believe if I don't get claim codes (or whatever they are) for the assets I hold, then shareholders of BitcoinGlobal should all get scammer tags.  What do you think?

I disagree. However, I would agree that the ones that are preventing BitcoinGlobal from relieving Nefario of the database would deserve the tag, assuming they have accounts here. Of course, that would be after giving Nefario a reasonable amount of time to send claim codes, himself.

[stochastic]

Maged,

I believe if I don't get claim codes (or whatever they are) for the assets I hold, then shareholders of BitcoinGlobal should all get scammer tags.  What do you think?

I disagree. However, I would agree that the ones that are preventing BitcoinGlobal from relieving Nefario of the database would deserve the tag, assuming they have accounts here. Of course, that would be after giving Nefario a reasonable amount of time to send claim codes, himself.

Nefario is requesting personal information from former GLBSE users to close their accounts and get any bitcoins/assets back.  Are you suggesting I send personal information to someone listed as a scammer by bitcointalk moderators?

Theymos stated that the bylaws of BitcoinGlobal are enforceable on bitcointalk forums, but they can't be enforced unless the shareholders of BitcoinGlobal are released.  Also, the shareholders will not oust Nefario from CEO of BitcoinGlobal unless they are pressured to do so with the threat of ostracization from the bitcoin community.  If the BitcoinGlobal shareholders deserve a scammer tag for not voting to get him to give up the database, by extension Theymos deserves a scammer tag for not releasing the shareholders names as he is aiding their scamming.