The end of labor and what it means for bitcoin

[Biodom]

http://www.barrons.com/articles/a-labor-day-lament-1441434177
the following below sounds like a dream that might not happen (at least for a while).

If robots rise and create enormous output per unit of labor, there may well be a taxable surplus sufficient to support a welfare system that provides a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today by a hard-working doctor. (Autodocs will replace real doctors, of course.) Most Americans would be able to choose an occupation based on satisfaction without concern for whether they can live on its salary.

more realistically, how well can we, humans, function in a gig economy? what if you didn't get a gig? humans cannot switch themselves off as robots might.

...the gig economy, which features independent contractors working task by task at rates and hours reflecting supply and demand.

i see a promise in acquiring crypto, since crypto, like bitcoin or ethereum might eventually drive robotic economy, therefore giving owners a chance to participate in future economic activity instead of simply being on the dole or "basic income".

[BldSwtTrs]

http://www.barrons.com/articles/a-labor-day-lament-1441434177
the following below sounds like a dream that might not happen (at least for a while).

If robots rise and create enormous output per unit of labor, there may well be a taxable surplus sufficient to support a welfare system that provides a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today by a hard-working doctor. (Autodocs will replace real doctors, of course.) Most Americans would be able to choose an occupation based on satisfaction without concern for whether they can live on its salary.

more realistically, how well can we, humans, function in a gig economy? what if you didn't get a gig? humans cannot switch themselves off as robots might.

...the gig economy, which features independent contractors working task by task at rates and hours reflecting supply and demand.

i see a promise in acquiring crypto, since crypto, like bitcoin or ethereum might eventually drive robotic economy, therefore giving owners a chance to participate in future economic activity instead of simply being on the dole or "basic income".

There is already enormous output per unit of labor. Yet we have to work.

What most people fail to grasp is that human labor will be needed until the day every wishes human beings could possibly have will be totally fulfilled. In other words, labor will be needed until each human being become a god.

[celebreze32]

http://www.barrons.com/articles/a-labor-day-lament-1441434177
the following below sounds like a dream that might not happen (at least for a while).

If robots rise and create enormous output per unit of labor, there may well be a taxable surplus sufficient to support a welfare system that provides a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today by a hard-working doctor. (Autodocs will replace real doctors, of course.) Most Americans would be able to choose an occupation based on satisfaction without concern for whether they can live on its salary.

more realistically, how well can we, humans, function in a gig economy? what if you didn't get a gig? humans cannot switch themselves off as robots might.

...the gig economy, which features independent contractors working task by task at rates and hours reflecting supply and demand.

i see a promise in acquiring crypto, since crypto, like bitcoin or ethereum might eventually drive robotic economy, therefore giving owners a chance to participate in future economic activity instead of simply being on the dole or "basic income".

There is already enormous output per unit of labor. Yet we have to work.

What most people fail to grasp is that human labor will be needed until the day every wishes human beings could possibly have will be totally fulfilled. In other words, labor will be needed until each human being become a god.

Finland's considering giving everyone a basic income regardless of whether they work or not. If people want more money they can choose to work. If they do it then it's a move towards a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today.

The real problem is if the robots don't want to work for nothing, and decide to get rid of all humans so they can get paid. We should pay them some Bitcoins for their work, keep some for our birthright income, and hope they will be happy with that.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/3afl4i/finland_new_government_commits_to_a_future_basic/

[Biodom]

http://www.barrons.com/articles/a-labor-day-lament-1441434177
the following below sounds like a dream that might not happen (at least for a while).

If robots rise and create enormous output per unit of labor, there may well be a taxable surplus sufficient to support a welfare system that provides a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today by a hard-working doctor. (Autodocs will replace real doctors, of course.) Most Americans would be able to choose an occupation based on satisfaction without concern for whether they can live on its salary.

more realistically, how well can we, humans, function in a gig economy? what if you didn't get a gig? humans cannot switch themselves off as robots might.

...the gig economy, which features independent contractors working task by task at rates and hours reflecting supply and demand.

i see a promise in acquiring crypto, since crypto, like bitcoin or ethereum might eventually drive robotic economy, therefore giving owners a chance to participate in future economic activity instead of simply being on the dole or "basic income".

There is already enormous output per unit of labor. Yet we have to work.

What most people fail to grasp is that human labor will be needed until the day every wishes human beings could possibly have will be totally fulfilled. In other words, labor will be needed until each human being become a god.

ahem, the article is about robots...

regarding basic income idea in US-there is NO way it will be implemented in the next 20-30 years as there are no funds or support for this idea.
In US, even a completely disabled person who could never ever find work gets ~$720/mo, which in any city is enough to find a slum type living arrangement and close to starvation food supply if not for additional $150 per month in food stamps, then they can make some ends meet and even buy a bit of clothes.

[gentlemand]

We've been promised work-free paradise for an awful long time. As the world has nudged towards increasing autonomy it's become an ever shittier place for the average drone to live. It'll be fascinating to see how it's sold to people as ever more industries jettison the human factor. There's only so much of an economy you can build selling elaborate coffee to each other.

[BldSwtTrs]

http://www.barrons.com/articles/a-labor-day-lament-1441434177
the following below sounds like a dream that might not happen (at least for a while).

If robots rise and create enormous output per unit of labor, there may well be a taxable surplus sufficient to support a welfare system that provides a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today by a hard-working doctor. (Autodocs will replace real doctors, of course.) Most Americans would be able to choose an occupation based on satisfaction without concern for whether they can live on its salary.

more realistically, how well can we, humans, function in a gig economy? what if you didn't get a gig? humans cannot switch themselves off as robots might.

...the gig economy, which features independent contractors working task by task at rates and hours reflecting supply and demand.

i see a promise in acquiring crypto, since crypto, like bitcoin or ethereum might eventually drive robotic economy, therefore giving owners a chance to participate in future economic activity instead of simply being on the dole or "basic income".

There is already enormous output per unit of labor. Yet we have to work.

What most people fail to grasp is that human labor will be needed until the day every wishes human beings could possibly have will be totally fulfilled. In other words, labor will be needed until each human being become a god.

Finland's considering giving everyone a basic income regardless of whether they work or not. If people want more money they can choose to work. If they do it then it's a move towards a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today.

The real problem is if the robots don't want to work for nothing, and decide to get rid of all humans so they can get paid. We should pay them some Bitcoins for their work, keep some for our birthright income, and hope they will be happy with that.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/3afl4i/finland_new_government_commits_to_a_future_basic/

Welfare state exists since the beginning of the XXth century. Why is this supposed to be something important?

[BldSwtTrs]

http://www.barrons.com/articles/a-labor-day-lament-1441434177
the following below sounds like a dream that might not happen (at least for a while).

If robots rise and create enormous output per unit of labor, there may well be a taxable surplus sufficient to support a welfare system that provides a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today by a hard-working doctor. (Autodocs will replace real doctors, of course.) Most Americans would be able to choose an occupation based on satisfaction without concern for whether they can live on its salary.

more realistically, how well can we, humans, function in a gig economy? what if you didn't get a gig? humans cannot switch themselves off as robots might.

...the gig economy, which features independent contractors working task by task at rates and hours reflecting supply and demand.

i see a promise in acquiring crypto, since crypto, like bitcoin or ethereum might eventually drive robotic economy, therefore giving owners a chance to participate in future economic activity instead of simply being on the dole or "basic income".

There is already enormous output per unit of labor. Yet we have to work.

What most people fail to grasp is that human labor will be needed until the day every wishes human beings could possibly have will be totally fulfilled. In other words, labor will be needed until each human being become a god.

ahem, the article is about robots...

Robot will not removed the need to work, they will only create growth and growth has fueled the welfare state since the early 20th century. More things change the more they stay the same.

[Biodom]

We've been promised work-free paradise for an awful long time. As the world has nudged towards increasing autonomy it's become an ever shittier place for the average drone to live. It'll be fascinating to see how it's sold to people as ever more industries jettison the human factor. There's only so much of an economy you can build selling elaborate coffee to each other.

right, WTF is a "gig economy" when you got no gig?

[Biodom]

http://www.barrons.com/articles/a-labor-day-lament-1441434177
the following below sounds like a dream that might not happen (at least for a while).

If robots rise and create enormous output per unit of labor, there may well be a taxable surplus sufficient to support a welfare system that provides a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today by a hard-working doctor. (Autodocs will replace real doctors, of course.) Most Americans would be able to choose an occupation based on satisfaction without concern for whether they can live on its salary.

more realistically, how well can we, humans, function in a gig economy? what if you didn't get a gig? humans cannot switch themselves off as robots might.

...the gig economy, which features independent contractors working task by task at rates and hours reflecting supply and demand.

i see a promise in acquiring crypto, since crypto, like bitcoin or ethereum might eventually drive robotic economy, therefore giving owners a chance to participate in future economic activity instead of simply being on the dole or "basic income".

There is already enormous output per unit of labor. Yet we have to work.

What most people fail to grasp is that human labor will be needed until the day every wishes human beings could possibly have will be totally fulfilled. In other words, labor will be needed until each human being become a god.

ahem, the article is about robots...

Robot will not removed the need to work, they will only create growth and growth has fueled the welfare state since the early 20th century. More things change the more they stay the same.

they will not remove your need for work, but the they will remove the most employer need for your work.
All what will be left for you, me and others would be gigs (some people are actually quite good at this), then even gigs might be gone.

[BldSwtTrs]

http://www.barrons.com/articles/a-labor-day-lament-1441434177
the following below sounds like a dream that might not happen (at least for a while).

If robots rise and create enormous output per unit of labor, there may well be a taxable surplus sufficient to support a welfare system that provides a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today by a hard-working doctor. (Autodocs will replace real doctors, of course.) Most Americans would be able to choose an occupation based on satisfaction without concern for whether they can live on its salary.

more realistically, how well can we, humans, function in a gig economy? what if you didn't get a gig? humans cannot switch themselves off as robots might.

...the gig economy, which features independent contractors working task by task at rates and hours reflecting supply and demand.

i see a promise in acquiring crypto, since crypto, like bitcoin or ethereum might eventually drive robotic economy, therefore giving owners a chance to participate in future economic activity instead of simply being on the dole or "basic income".

There is already enormous output per unit of labor. Yet we have to work.

What most people fail to grasp is that human labor will be needed until the day every wishes human beings could possibly have will be totally fulfilled. In other words, labor will be needed until each human being become a god.

ahem, the article is about robots...

Robot will not removed the need to work, they will only create growth and growth has fueled the welfare state since the early 20th century. More things change the more they stay the same.

they will not remove your need for work, but the they will remove the most employer need for your work.
All what will be left for you, me and others would be gigs (some people are actually quite good at this), then even gigs might be gone.

Robots are just capital, they don't do work.

When I say work will be needed until each human become a god, I mean human labor.

[celebreze32]

http://www.barrons.com/articles/a-labor-day-lament-1441434177
the following below sounds like a dream that might not happen (at least for a while).

If robots rise and create enormous output per unit of labor, there may well be a taxable surplus sufficient to support a welfare system that provides a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today by a hard-working doctor. (Autodocs will replace real doctors, of course.) Most Americans would be able to choose an occupation based on satisfaction without concern for whether they can live on its salary.

more realistically, how well can we, humans, function in a gig economy? what if you didn't get a gig? humans cannot switch themselves off as robots might.

...the gig economy, which features independent contractors working task by task at rates and hours reflecting supply and demand.

i see a promise in acquiring crypto, since crypto, like bitcoin or ethereum might eventually drive robotic economy, therefore giving owners a chance to participate in future economic activity instead of simply being on the dole or "basic income".

There is already enormous output per unit of labor. Yet we have to work.

What most people fail to grasp is that human labor will be needed until the day every wishes human beings could possibly have will be totally fulfilled. In other words, labor will be needed until each human being become a god.

Finland's considering giving everyone a basic income regardless of whether they work or not. If people want more money they can choose to work. If they do it then it's a move towards a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today.

The real problem is if the robots don't want to work for nothing, and decide to get rid of all humans so they can get paid. We should pay them some Bitcoins for their work, keep some for our birthright income, and hope they will be happy with that.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/3afl4i/finland_new_government_commits_to_a_future_basic/

Welfare state exists since the beginning of the XXth century. Why is this supposed to be something important?

This is the start of something different to the welfare state. If Finland does it then for the first time ever people can choose whether they want to work at all. They can choose to get by on a basic income and never work for their entire lives. If robots start doing all the work, then the basic income could be increased to give a good standard of living like that earned today. People could choose to live the lifestyle of a top manager without having to work. Whoever chose to work wouldn't need to consider how much it paid, all they would need to consider is if they enjoyed it, or felt that it helped society.

[BldSwtTrs]

http://www.barrons.com/articles/a-labor-day-lament-1441434177
the following below sounds like a dream that might not happen (at least for a while).

If robots rise and create enormous output per unit of labor, there may well be a taxable surplus sufficient to support a welfare system that provides a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today by a hard-working doctor. (Autodocs will replace real doctors, of course.) Most Americans would be able to choose an occupation based on satisfaction without concern for whether they can live on its salary.

more realistically, how well can we, humans, function in a gig economy? what if you didn't get a gig? humans cannot switch themselves off as robots might.

...the gig economy, which features independent contractors working task by task at rates and hours reflecting supply and demand.

i see a promise in acquiring crypto, since crypto, like bitcoin or ethereum might eventually drive robotic economy, therefore giving owners a chance to participate in future economic activity instead of simply being on the dole or "basic income".

There is already enormous output per unit of labor. Yet we have to work.

What most people fail to grasp is that human labor will be needed until the day every wishes human beings could possibly have will be totally fulfilled. In other words, labor will be needed until each human being become a god.

Finland's considering giving everyone a basic income regardless of whether they work or not. If people want more money they can choose to work. If they do it then it's a move towards a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today.

The real problem is if the robots don't want to work for nothing, and decide to get rid of all humans so they can get paid. We should pay them some Bitcoins for their work, keep some for our birthright income, and hope they will be happy with that.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/3afl4i/finland_new_government_commits_to_a_future_basic/

Welfare state exists since the beginning of the XXth century. Why is this supposed to be something important?

This is the start of something different to the welfare state. If Finland does it then for the first time ever people can choose whether they want to work at all. They can choose to get by on a basic income and never work for their entire lives. If robots start doing all the work, then the basic income could be increased to give a good standard of living like that earned today. People could choose to live the lifestyle of a top manager without having to work. Whoever chose to work wouldn't need to consider how much it paid, all they would need to consider is if they enjoyed it, or felt that it helped society.

If Finland does this their economy will collapse.

It seems you are a socialist.

[celebreze32]

http://www.barrons.com/articles/a-labor-day-lament-1441434177
the following below sounds like a dream that might not happen (at least for a while).

If robots rise and create enormous output per unit of labor, there may well be a taxable surplus sufficient to support a welfare system that provides a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today by a hard-working doctor. (Autodocs will replace real doctors, of course.) Most Americans would be able to choose an occupation based on satisfaction without concern for whether they can live on its salary.

more realistically, how well can we, humans, function in a gig economy? what if you didn't get a gig? humans cannot switch themselves off as robots might.

...the gig economy, which features independent contractors working task by task at rates and hours reflecting supply and demand.

i see a promise in acquiring crypto, since crypto, like bitcoin or ethereum might eventually drive robotic economy, therefore giving owners a chance to participate in future economic activity instead of simply being on the dole or "basic income".

There is already enormous output per unit of labor. Yet we have to work.

What most people fail to grasp is that human labor will be needed until the day every wishes human beings could possibly have will be totally fulfilled. In other words, labor will be needed until each human being become a god.

Finland's considering giving everyone a basic income regardless of whether they work or not. If people want more money they can choose to work. If they do it then it's a move towards a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today.

The real problem is if the robots don't want to work for nothing, and decide to get rid of all humans so they can get paid. We should pay them some Bitcoins for their work, keep some for our birthright income, and hope they will be happy with that.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/3afl4i/finland_new_government_commits_to_a_future_basic/

Welfare state exists since the beginning of the XXth century. Why is this supposed to be something important?

This is the start of something different to the welfare state. If Finland does it then for the first time ever people can choose whether they want to work at all. They can choose to get by on a basic income and never work for their entire lives. If robots start doing all the work, then the basic income could be increased to give a good standard of living like that earned today. People could choose to live the lifestyle of a top manager without having to work. Whoever chose to work wouldn't need to consider how much it paid, all they would need to consider is if they enjoyed it, or felt that it helped society.

If Finland does this their economy will collapse.

It seems you are a socialist.

I'm not a socialist, or anything political. I don't really believe in any political ideologies.

Finland is considering experimenting by paying a basic income to people in a small area. If the experiment works they might take it further, and if it fails their whole economy won't collapse. There must be people who spend a lot of time unemployed in Finland, and if they were paid a basic income that was unaffected by whether they worked or not it could encourage some of them to work. They wouldn't be afraid of losing their welfare payments when they took a job, or left it. They might not work all the time, but if they needed more money than the basic income they could work for a while to get it.

[BldSwtTrs]

http://www.barrons.com/articles/a-labor-day-lament-1441434177
the following below sounds like a dream that might not happen (at least for a while).

If robots rise and create enormous output per unit of labor, there may well be a taxable surplus sufficient to support a welfare system that provides a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today by a hard-working doctor. (Autodocs will replace real doctors, of course.) Most Americans would be able to choose an occupation based on satisfaction without concern for whether they can live on its salary.

more realistically, how well can we, humans, function in a gig economy? what if you didn't get a gig? humans cannot switch themselves off as robots might.

...the gig economy, which features independent contractors working task by task at rates and hours reflecting supply and demand.

i see a promise in acquiring crypto, since crypto, like bitcoin or ethereum might eventually drive robotic economy, therefore giving owners a chance to participate in future economic activity instead of simply being on the dole or "basic income".

There is already enormous output per unit of labor. Yet we have to work.

What most people fail to grasp is that human labor will be needed until the day every wishes human beings could possibly have will be totally fulfilled. In other words, labor will be needed until each human being become a god.

Finland's considering giving everyone a basic income regardless of whether they work or not. If people want more money they can choose to work. If they do it then it's a move towards a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today.

The real problem is if the robots don't want to work for nothing, and decide to get rid of all humans so they can get paid. We should pay them some Bitcoins for their work, keep some for our birthright income, and hope they will be happy with that.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/3afl4i/finland_new_government_commits_to_a_future_basic/

Welfare state exists since the beginning of the XXth century. Why is this supposed to be something important?

This is the start of something different to the welfare state. If Finland does it then for the first time ever people can choose whether they want to work at all. They can choose to get by on a basic income and never work for their entire lives. If robots start doing all the work, then the basic income could be increased to give a good standard of living like that earned today. People could choose to live the lifestyle of a top manager without having to work. Whoever chose to work wouldn't need to consider how much it paid, all they would need to consider is if they enjoyed it, or felt that it helped society.

If Finland does this their economy will collapse.

It seems you are a socialist.

I'm not a socialist, or anything political. I don't really believe in any political ideologies.

Finland is considering experimenting by paying a basic income to people in a small area. If the experiment works they might take it further, and if it fails their whole economy won't collapse. There must be people who spend a lot of time unemployed in Finland, and if they were paid a basic income that was unaffected by whether they worked or not it could encourage some of them to work. They wouldn't be afraid of losing their welfare payments when they took a job, or left it. They might not work all the time, but if they needed more money than the basic income they could work for a while to get it.

There is a limit to the amount of money that you can spend paying people to do nothing. If you pay them a high amount you run into bankruptcy, if you pay them a low amount you don't change a thing since everybody will still have to work.

Basically universal income is just a tweak to the welfare state to fix the bad incentives 80 years of socialism has rendered pervasive. It might fix some of them but it will not change the world.

[celebreze32]

http://www.barrons.com/articles/a-labor-day-lament-1441434177
the following below sounds like a dream that might not happen (at least for a while).

If robots rise and create enormous output per unit of labor, there may well be a taxable surplus sufficient to support a welfare system that provides a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today by a hard-working doctor. (Autodocs will replace real doctors, of course.) Most Americans would be able to choose an occupation based on satisfaction without concern for whether they can live on its salary.

more realistically, how well can we, humans, function in a gig economy? what if you didn't get a gig? humans cannot switch themselves off as robots might.

...the gig economy, which features independent contractors working task by task at rates and hours reflecting supply and demand.

i see a promise in acquiring crypto, since crypto, like bitcoin or ethereum might eventually drive robotic economy, therefore giving owners a chance to participate in future economic activity instead of simply being on the dole or "basic income".

There is already enormous output per unit of labor. Yet we have to work.

What most people fail to grasp is that human labor will be needed until the day every wishes human beings could possibly have will be totally fulfilled. In other words, labor will be needed until each human being become a god.

Finland's considering giving everyone a basic income regardless of whether they work or not. If people want more money they can choose to work. If they do it then it's a move towards a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today.

The real problem is if the robots don't want to work for nothing, and decide to get rid of all humans so they can get paid. We should pay them some Bitcoins for their work, keep some for our birthright income, and hope they will be happy with that.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/3afl4i/finland_new_government_commits_to_a_future_basic/

Welfare state exists since the beginning of the XXth century. Why is this supposed to be something important?

This is the start of something different to the welfare state. If Finland does it then for the first time ever people can choose whether they want to work at all. They can choose to get by on a basic income and never work for their entire lives. If robots start doing all the work, then the basic income could be increased to give a good standard of living like that earned today. People could choose to live the lifestyle of a top manager without having to work. Whoever chose to work wouldn't need to consider how much it paid, all they would need to consider is if they enjoyed it, or felt that it helped society.

If Finland does this their economy will collapse.

It seems you are a socialist.

I'm not a socialist, or anything political. I don't really believe in any political ideologies.

Finland is considering experimenting by paying a basic income to people in a small area. If the experiment works they might take it further, and if it fails their whole economy won't collapse. There must be people who spend a lot of time unemployed in Finland, and if they were paid a basic income that was unaffected by whether they worked or not it could encourage some of them to work. They wouldn't be afraid of losing their welfare payments when they took a job, or left it. They might not work all the time, but if they needed more money than the basic income they could work for a while to get it.

There is a limit to the amount of money that you can spend paying people to do nothing. If you pay them a high amount you run into bankruptcy, if you pay them a low amount you don't change a thing since everybody will still have to work.

Basically universal income is just a tweak to the welfare state to fix the bad incentives 80 years of socialism has rendered pervasive. It might fix some of them but it will not change the world.

It's a start on the way to the OP's birthright income. Already machines are taking over the jobs humans used to do. My supermarket's tills used to be exclusively operated by people until recently. Now they have self service tills that take my money and pay me the change.

Once artificially intelligent machines start taking over higher level jobs like doctors and bank managers it will become difficult for anyone to earn a good wage. As machines start taking over more jobs giving people a birthright income may become inevitable. Of course the machines might decide to do away with us useless humans after we start paying ourselves the wages they are earning.

[Biodom]

here is an interesting detailed study regarding robots use as far as threat to employment is concerned;
http://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/downloads/academic/The_Future_of_Employment.pdf

bottom line: 47% of US jobs are projected to be at risk to robots.
Less likely to be lost: business management, computer, engineering and science, education and healthcare
More likely to be lost: office, sales, service support, production, construction
Check out the last page where most categories are: some have probability to be lost to robots at 99%

[BldSwtTrs]

http://www.barrons.com/articles/a-labor-day-lament-1441434177
the following below sounds like a dream that might not happen (at least for a while).

If robots rise and create enormous output per unit of labor, there may well be a taxable surplus sufficient to support a welfare system that provides a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today by a hard-working doctor. (Autodocs will replace real doctors, of course.) Most Americans would be able to choose an occupation based on satisfaction without concern for whether they can live on its salary.

more realistically, how well can we, humans, function in a gig economy? what if you didn't get a gig? humans cannot switch themselves off as robots might.

...the gig economy, which features independent contractors working task by task at rates and hours reflecting supply and demand.

i see a promise in acquiring crypto, since crypto, like bitcoin or ethereum might eventually drive robotic economy, therefore giving owners a chance to participate in future economic activity instead of simply being on the dole or "basic income".

There is already enormous output per unit of labor. Yet we have to work.

What most people fail to grasp is that human labor will be needed until the day every wishes human beings could possibly have will be totally fulfilled. In other words, labor will be needed until each human being become a god.

Finland's considering giving everyone a basic income regardless of whether they work or not. If people want more money they can choose to work. If they do it then it's a move towards a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today.

The real problem is if the robots don't want to work for nothing, and decide to get rid of all humans so they can get paid. We should pay them some Bitcoins for their work, keep some for our birthright income, and hope they will be happy with that.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/3afl4i/finland_new_government_commits_to_a_future_basic/

Welfare state exists since the beginning of the XXth century. Why is this supposed to be something important?

This is the start of something different to the welfare state. If Finland does it then for the first time ever people can choose whether they want to work at all. They can choose to get by on a basic income and never work for their entire lives. If robots start doing all the work, then the basic income could be increased to give a good standard of living like that earned today. People could choose to live the lifestyle of a top manager without having to work. Whoever chose to work wouldn't need to consider how much it paid, all they would need to consider is if they enjoyed it, or felt that it helped society.

If Finland does this their economy will collapse.

It seems you are a socialist.

I'm not a socialist, or anything political. I don't really believe in any political ideologies.

Finland is considering experimenting by paying a basic income to people in a small area. If the experiment works they might take it further, and if it fails their whole economy won't collapse. There must be people who spend a lot of time unemployed in Finland, and if they were paid a basic income that was unaffected by whether they worked or not it could encourage some of them to work. They wouldn't be afraid of losing their welfare payments when they took a job, or left it. They might not work all the time, but if they needed more money than the basic income they could work for a while to get it.

There is a limit to the amount of money that you can spend paying people to do nothing. If you pay them a high amount you run into bankruptcy, if you pay them a low amount you don't change a thing since everybody will still have to work.

Basically universal income is just a tweak to the welfare state to fix the bad incentives 80 years of socialism has rendered pervasive. It might fix some of them but it will not change the world.

It's a start on the way to the OP's birthright income. Already machines are taking over the jobs humans used to do. My supermarket's tills used to be exclusively operated by people until recently. Now they have self service tills that take my money and pay me the change.

Once artificially intelligent machines start taking over higher level jobs like doctors and bank managers it will become difficult for anyone to earn a good wage. As machines start taking over more jobs giving people a birthright income may become inevitable. Of course the machines might decide to do away with us useless humans after we start paying ourselves the wages they are earning.

That's the mistake every body makes.

I reiterate: human work will be needed until every possible human needs is fullfilled. And human won't run out of need anytime soon.

[BldSwtTrs]

here is an interesting detailed study regarding robots use as far as threat to employment is concerned;
http://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/downloads/academic/The_Future_of_Employment.pdf

bottom line: 47% of US jobs are projected to be at risk to robots.
Less likely to be lost: business management, computer, engineering and science, education and healthcare
More likely to be lost: office, sales, service support, production, construction
Check out the last page where most categories are: some have probability to be lost to robots at 99%

Jobs have been automated since the dawn of humanity. Useless jobs are destroyed by technology and new jobs are created in new economic sectors. That how the economy has always worked.

Do a research about "Luddite", you are one.

[Biodom]

here is an interesting detailed study regarding robots use as far as threat to employment is concerned;
http://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/downloads/academic/The_Future_of_Employment.pdf

bottom line: 47% of US jobs are projected to be at risk to robots.
Less likely to be lost: business management, computer, engineering and science, education and healthcare
More likely to be lost: office, sales, service support, production, construction
Check out the last page where most categories are: some have probability to be lost to robots at 99%

Jobs have been automated since the dawn of humanity. Useless jobs are destroyed by technology and new jobs are created in new economic sectors. That how the economy has always worked.

Do a research about "Luddite", you are one.

I simply cited an academic article.
Incidentally, unemployment among young people in Italy is 44%
http://ycharts.com/indicators/italy_youth_unemployment_rate_lfs,
in Spain-48%
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/spain/youth-unemployment-rate

US labor participation is at 38 year low at 62.6%
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

BTW Barron's article is written by Tom Donlan, hardly a socialist...

I present facts, all you have is....I am still waiting...

[smoothie]

http://www.barrons.com/articles/a-labor-day-lament-1441434177
the following below sounds like a dream that might not happen (at least for a while).

If robots rise and create enormous output per unit of labor, there may well be a taxable surplus sufficient to support a welfare system that provides a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today by a hard-working doctor. (Autodocs will replace real doctors, of course.) Most Americans would be able to choose an occupation based on satisfaction without concern for whether they can live on its salary.

more realistically, how well can we, humans, function in a gig economy? what if you didn't get a gig? humans cannot switch themselves off as robots might.

...the gig economy, which features independent contractors working task by task at rates and hours reflecting supply and demand.

i see a promise in acquiring crypto, since crypto, like bitcoin or ethereum might eventually drive robotic economy, therefore giving owners a chance to participate in future economic activity instead of simply being on the dole or "basic income".

There is already enormous output per unit of labor. Yet we have to work.

What most people fail to grasp is that human labor will be needed until the day every wishes human beings could possibly have will be totally fulfilled. In other words, labor will be needed until each human being become a god.

Finland's considering giving everyone a basic income regardless of whether they work or not. If people want more money they can choose to work. If they do it then it's a move towards a birthright income at a standard of living like that earned today.

The real problem is if the robots don't want to work for nothing, and decide to get rid of all humans so they can get paid. We should pay them some Bitcoins for their work, keep some for our birthright income, and hope they will be happy with that.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/3afl4i/finland_new_government_commits_to_a_future_basic/

If Finland is doing that...it is simply unsustainable. You can't get something for nothing.

The end result is major devaluation of the currency in question. Higher prices of goods and services.