Interview with the CEO of bitmain

[toptek]

I normally don't  make my own posts or threads but this one i had to :

how many saw this ?

I won't give my imo to much on this post even thu i made it . to much BS in it .  I don't mean from you all , i mean from bitmian my comments won't be nice.

I just found it funny as hell some of the stuff they said so they could justify the price jacking .




http://insidebitcoins.com/news/exclusive-interview-with-jihan-wu-of-bitmain-on-s7-block-size-debate-and-more/34658



if this is the wrong forum  sorry please move it.

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[VirosaGITS]

Hahh, thats pretty interesting.
I have mixed feeling about the AntRouter. (I don't see why "That's the product that people wanted).
I don't how high density, super loud miners are "Home oriented". Sure the size is convenient, but the noise is unreal. China's typical households must be really loud or something.

And now looks like the S6 was "not offered"... so they kept it all to themselves?

And S9 will be on 16nm it seems.

[dogie]

And now looks like the S6 was "not offered"... so they kept it all to themselves?

Not offered = have chips + could make something S6 shaped + lets just wait. The S*even* has to clear rack space of something earlier to be sold in any volume, but there wasn't enough of an improvement to do that.

[notlist3d]

Maybe I don't see it but unless they release some new information on router I don't see it as a "dream" product.  I see it as a neat gimmick.

But if they are truly competing with routers out there it won't be beating my nighthawk.  Even my tplink nano I have for travel they would have to do a lot to beat it.

[sidehack]

And now looks like the S6 was "not offered"... so they kept it all to themselves?

Not offered = have chips + could make something S6 shaped + lets just wait. The S*even* has to clear rack space of something earlier to be sold in any volume, but there wasn't enough of an improvement to do that.

So they opted for the S4+, which had all of 15% improvement over the S4 and a retarded price and still sold out. Then the S5+, which had all of 15% improvement over the S5 and a retarded price and still sold out. I think that logic doesn't really make sense.

[VirosaGITS]

I guess people are still speculating on the BTC value going up to 600s? I don't know, it just seem like there's a world of difference between the perceived value of the miners.

I think i'm part of the logic/pragmatic side;

"Okay so it will most likely take 6+ months to break even before considering price/diff fluctuation and electricity cost. Yeah no, pass."

Versus;

"A new miner? Omg i throw money at screen but its not shipping out any faster ."

Meanwhile i'll put a sidehack stick in my Luci open-wrt router and bam! AntRouter!?

[Biodom]

I guess people are still speculating on the BTC value going up to 600s? I don't know, it just seem like there's a world of difference between the perceived value of the miners.

I think i'm part of the logic/pragmatic side;

"Okay so it will most likely take 6+ months to break even before considering price/diff fluctuation and electricity cost. Yeah no, pass."

Versus;

"A new miner? Omg i throw money at screen but its not shipping out any faster ."

Meanwhile i'll put a sidehack stick in my Luci open-wrt router and bam! AntRouter!?

lol, I don't think that he will market it as such.

[notlist3d]

I guess people are still speculating on the BTC value going up to 600s? I don't know, it just seem like there's a world of difference between the perceived value of the miners.

I think i'm part of the logic/pragmatic side;

"Okay so it will most likely take 6+ months to break even before considering price/diff fluctuation and electricity cost. Yeah no, pass."

Versus;

"A new miner? Omg i throw money at screen but its not shipping out any faster ."

Meanwhile i'll put a sidehack stick in my Luci open-wrt router and bam! AntRouter!?

lol, I don't think that he will market it as such.

He dosent have to we can already do this.  Avalon used the tp nano to control their miners.  You had a choice of raspberry pi or tp link nano with usb.

We have the technology  to make the "antrouter" with existing open-wrt and usb mining stick.  I still laugh they call it a "dream" device.  I want to see specs.  They really would have to do something amazing for it to do something we already cant do with other options.

[VirosaGITS]

Correct. Slapping Sidehack's cgminer(or whoever is doing the coding) on my TpLink is fairly easy and the router already come with USB ports. I could even put a usb hub and run a farm of them on it.

Hence i don't see the point on the AntRouter. It sound gimmicky and also it only mine to antpool. Meh.

[notlist3d]

Correct. Slapping Sidehack's cgminer(or whoever is doing the coding) on my TpLink is fairly easy and the router already come with USB ports. I could even put a usb hub and run a farm of them on it.

Hence i don't see the point on the AntRouter. It sound gimmicky and also it only mine to antpool. Meh.

I think it's their response to bitfury's lightbulb.  They want some item that is for show and fun.  Personally I think the lightbulb was a cooler thing as I cannot build that.

I just wonder what price will be.  If they jack it up to much on router will be funny to see tplink nano + usb miner cheaper.

[notlist3d]

Correct. Slapping Sidehack's cgminer(or whoever is doing the coding) on my TpLink is fairly easy and the router already come with USB ports. I could even put a usb hub and run a farm of them on it.

Hence i don't see the point on the AntRouter. It sound gimmicky and also it only mine to antpool. Meh.

I think it's their response to bitfury's lightbulb.  They want some item that is for show and fun.  Personally I think the lightbulb was a cooler thing as I cannot build that.

I just wonder what price will be.  If they jack it up to much on router will be funny to see tplink nano + usb miner cheaper.

I think they both could be really neat, the light bulb to say a room is full integrated into the network (lights, heat and router). On the subject of the sidehack stick how would you connect it to the tplink directly without a pi? Are you flashing the TPlink firmware?

First you have to have the tplink nano with usb. They make one with it and one without it.   But you would flash it with custom firmware it is a very capable device.

Most went the raspberry pi route, but avalon has used the tplink with their 4.1's using custom firmware.   But it's openwrt custom firmware that run's cgminer.

[tonycamp]

well this new miners are for 2016 and are they represented into specifics?

[VirosaGITS]

Correct. Slapping Sidehack's cgminer(or whoever is doing the coding) on my TpLink is fairly easy and the router already come with USB ports. I could even put a usb hub and run a farm of them on it.

Hence i don't see the point on the AntRouter. It sound gimmicky and also it only mine to antpool. Meh.

I think it's their response to bitfury's lightbulb.  They want some item that is for show and fun.  Personally I think the lightbulb was a cooler thing as I cannot build that.

I just wonder what price will be.  If they jack it up to much on router will be funny to see tplink nano + usb miner cheaper.

I think they both could be really neat, the light bulb to say a room is full integrated into the network (lights, heat and router). On the subject of the sidehack stick how would you connect it to the tplink directly without a pi? Are you flashing the TPlink firmware?

First you have to have the tplink nano with usb. They make one with it and one without it.   But you would flash it with custom firmware it is a very capable device.

Most went the raspberry pi route, but avalon has used the tplink with their 4.1's using custom firmware.   But it's openwrt custom firmware that run's cgminer.

I have messed with flashing the TP link with Openwrt for the HEX miner and it was such a pain and unreliable, they may have been due to the part of that miner but I don't think that sounds like a good solution.

Mine is already on Openwrt, it was fairly simple. I'm assuming you,re saying compiling the HEX miner was hard? I've not had problem with cgminer before.

[notlist3d]

Correct. Slapping Sidehack's cgminer(or whoever is doing the coding) on my TpLink is fairly easy and the router already come with USB ports. I could even put a usb hub and run a farm of them on it.

Hence i don't see the point on the AntRouter. It sound gimmicky and also it only mine to antpool. Meh.

I think it's their response to bitfury's lightbulb.  They want some item that is for show and fun.  Personally I think the lightbulb was a cooler thing as I cannot build that.

I just wonder what price will be.  If they jack it up to much on router will be funny to see tplink nano + usb miner cheaper.

I think they both could be really neat, the light bulb to say a room is full integrated into the network (lights, heat and router). On the subject of the sidehack stick how would you connect it to the tplink directly without a pi? Are you flashing the TPlink firmware?

First you have to have the tplink nano with usb. They make one with it and one without it.   But you would flash it with custom firmware it is a very capable device.

Most went the raspberry pi route, but avalon has used the tplink with their 4.1's using custom firmware.   But it's openwrt custom firmware that run's cgminer.

I have messed with flashing the TP link with Openwrt for the HEX miner and it was such a pain and unreliable, they may have been due to the part of that miner but I don't think that sounds like a good solution.

Mine is already on Openwrt, it was fairly simple. I'm assuming you,re saying compiling the HEX miner was hard? I've not had problem with cgminer before.

It worked for many Avalon 4.1 owners.   So I'm going to assume was the miner.   Don't get me wrong I will probley buy one to play with.  But I'm not that impressed with router with chip.  Not calling it a "dream" product.

[VirosaGITS]

I kind of doubt you're going to get it for cheaper than a tplink 25$+sidehack stick 25$.

I guess we'll see but as with most gimmicky stuff and pretty much everything Bitmain has been selling lately, its going to be overpriced.

[VirosaGITS]

Indeed, i would love to see a 1800gh/450w unit. I don't really care that its double the KG(weight)/GH ratio. I don't really care that i'd have to pay 20$ shipping per TH instead of 10$/TH.

THAT. Is what i want. Not some AntRouter, not some 1400w unit that does 80dB.

[novak@gekkoscience]

What I want to know is how they plan to cool the chip in the router.  Unless there is a little fan or a big heatsink the BM1384 will have to run pretty low end.

I couldn't say what it would cost but it should be cheaper to add something in a corner of an existing board than to make a completely stand alone board.  Now, what they'll sell it for is another story, given their recent market dominance.

It's a much better idea than the bitfury lightbulb because routers already have internet connections.  The lightbulb is just comical because you're adding complex, low volt DC electronics to a high volt AC connection.  Thus you have to have an integrated PSU which adds a lot to the cost, is probably worse on efficiency, and there's still no reason to have an internet connection in your light socket.  Bitmain's chip in a router makes sense, at least conceptually.

--
novak

[VirosaGITS]

What I want to know is how they plan to cool the chip in the router.  Unless there is a little fan or a big heatsink the BM1384 will have to run pretty low end.

I couldn't say what it would cost but it should be cheaper to add something in a corner of an existing board than to make a completely stand alone board.  Now, what they'll sell it for is another story, given their recent market dominance.

It's a much better idea than the bitfury lightbulb because routers already have internet connections.  The lightbulb is just comical because you're adding complex, low volt DC electronics to a high volt AC connection.  Thus you have to have an integrated PSU which adds a lot to the cost, is probably worse on efficiency, and there's still no reason to have an internet connection in your light socket.  Bitmain's chip in a router makes sense, at least conceptually.

--
novak

Well the rated power of the router is 2W. So, very little power to the chip. At the very least it would need to be a BM1385 chip. Anyways not much cooling required. It also mean not much hashrate possible.

[sidehack]

You'd be looking at under 10GH even with the BM1385. Depends on how much power the entire rest of the device takes. Seems like kind of a waste.

[notlist3d]

You'd be looking at under 10GH even with the BM1385. Depends on how much power the entire rest of the device takes. Seems like kind of a waste.

I think you hit the nail on the head.   It is a PR thing they for some reason think will help cloud mining I think.   They have not released hardly anything but I wonder if they can find a way to tie in cloud mining with it.

If they for example have this router have a chip that does almost nothing and shows cloud mining stats.  I feel safe saying your compac is a better miner then whatever this ends up being with the router.

[sidehack]

It's a better miner than a lot of things that are miners and everything that is only sorta miner.

[VirosaGITS]

Meh. (Speculating)It seem like its true purpose is going to let you point your miners to your router and it will act as a proxy of sort. Of course forcing the hashpower to antpool. Otherwise i don't see why the device's hash would be obligatory tied to your Ant/Bitmain account.

What better excuse than this to gather more TX fees from mined blocks?

[novak@gekkoscience]

Well the rated power of the router is 2W. So, very little power to the chip. At the very least it would need to be a BM1385 chip. Anyways not much cooling required. It also mean not much hashrate possible.

Wow, ok, I hadn't looked at the details much and I missed that.  Yeah, no cooling required but major waste of a chip.  And they do specifically say (in the interview) it's a BM1384.  It's probably running 100MHz or even less depending on how much of that 2W is available- you're talking closer to 5GH/s.

--
novak

[VirosaGITS]

Oh wow i missed it the part where it said it came with a BM1384. What a waste! O.o

Q:Will AntRouter waste energy?
A:Router’s rated power is only 2W, Its consumption is negligible.

My source;
https://bitcoinnewsmagazine.com/antrouter-r1-the-router-that-mines-bitcoin/

[densuj]

I don't understand why bitmain is not make scrypt miner.  

[novak@gekkoscience]

Oh wow i missed it the part where it said it came with a BM1384. What a waste! O.o

Q:Will AntRouter waste energy?
A:Router’s rated power is only 2W, Its consumption is negligible.

My source;
https://bitcoinnewsmagazine.com/antrouter-r1-the-router-that-mines-bitcoin/

Yeah after you said that I looked it up and found that same thing.  And it is ridiculous to use a BM1384 in that router, it's _got_ to be intended more as a proxy or something more than a miner and the ASIC is just hype. 

In the not pessimistic department, I could imagine that they could build in some kind of wallet features which would be very nice- basically, caching blocks and running a proxy so you could run a wallet on another machine which primarily stayed offline (but was not out of date due to caching).  Bonus if the router functions as an "airlock" where bringing up a connection between router and wallet machine disconnects the upstream port, so you have a full featured and updated software wallet that never goes online.


--
novak

[sidehack]

Say, that sounds like a pretty great product idea that we haven't found time to build yet.

[notlist3d]

I think he is out of touch the each time i read "Mining bitcoin with the router is a long time dream for the Bitcoin miners.".   It just makes me wonder if he was not aware the other options to currently do this, or if he really thinks my dream is to mine with an router.

I just keep thinking there is some software that ties it in with another bitmain product most likely antpool, or I still think possibly cloud mining.   That is their reason to make them think it will make profit.   

I cant wait till more information is know.  The more we talk about it the more insane it seems.

[dogie]

I don't understand why bitmain is not make scrypt miner.  

Because it turns out no one actually wants scypt miners.

[novak@gekkoscience]

I think he is out of touch the each time i read "Mining bitcoin with the router is a long time dream for the Bitcoin miners.".

Bitfury thought their lightbulb was a good idea because power was already run to it.  Bitmain thinks their router is a good idea because it already has power and internet.  What they need to be looking for are things that need HEAT.  That's what bitcoin miners produce as a side product.  Otherwise you wind up with lots vastly underutilized chips and/or large amounts of support hardware per chip.  It becomes so much easier to just buy a real miner than to try and distribute them badly over things that aren't made to run bitcoin mining chips.

Just compare eg, usb stickminers to larger miners, the price per GH is terrible comparatively.  With the bitfury lightbulb you not only have a buck circuit and comms per ASIC as with USBs (or couple ASICs, honestly don't know how many are in there but thermally- not many.) but also a whole AC->DC conversion, ethernet, and controller.  You're marginally better off with this router as it already has a controller but in order for it to not burn extra power they've apparently clocked the chip down so far that it'll never make enough to justify the extra board space.

--
novak

[toptek]

I don't understand why bitmain is not make scrypt miner.  

Because it turns out no one actually wants scypt miners.

I disagree, to many want them and A2s still sell well and the L1's  bitmain prerecorded sold out with in hours or days i forget which, so its there .



Most of the time , i agree with you , more want them then you think . some are in fact bitcoin miners, they like doing both.

[notlist3d]

I don't understand why bitmain is not make scrypt miner.  

Because it turns out no one actually wants scypt miners.

I disagree, to many want them and A2s still sell well and the L1's  bitmain prerecorded sold out with in hours or days i forget which, so its there .



Most of the time , i agree with you , more want them then you think . some are in fact bitcoin miners, they like doing both.

They are not going to do it.  They looked into it once with the L1, took pre-orders and the whole thing.   But they decided it was best not to make machine.

I don't see after the L1 going to crap them trying it again.  But i could be wrong.

[dunand]

Indeed, i would love to see a 1800gh/450w unit. I don't really care that its double the KG(weight)/GH ratio. I don't really care that i'd have to pay 20$ shipping per TH instead of 10$/TH.

THAT. Is what i want. Not some AntRouter, not some 1400w unit that does 80dB.

My only complain is the noise. I buyed some C1 miners because they were quiet.

[toptek]

I don't understand why bitmain is not make scrypt miner.  

Because it turns out no one actually wants scypt miners.

I disagree, to many want them and A2s still sell well and the L1's  bitmain prerecorded sold out with in hours or days i forget which, so its there .



Most of the time , i agree with you , more want them then you think . some are in fact bitcoin miners, they like doing both.

They are not going to do it.  They looked into it once with the L1, took pre-orders and the whole thing.   But they decided it was best not to make machine.

I don't see after the L1 going to crap them trying it again.  But i could be wrong.

I know i had a per order for one my point is ,  it is not because on one wants it like he said because it did sell out with in hours or days i forget which. it's another reason that had to do with some thing Zeus did around that time , i can't be convinced diff. if you were following all the events  or  all the scrpt miners that were due out about then . Zeus back out and ripped off a lot of people some of which have yet to be paid back told them pretty much go jzDFCJKashld off .The market is there Innosilicon proved and has the best Scrpt miner around even KNC can't match it but it cost im saving for one . I like doing both coins . it's not weather bitmian will or won't or even why  because the why is not the real reason.


and the S7 i won't even go there we need other company's selling to the public so bitmain has to  keep prices low and calling it a home miner, that's a joke . but that remains to be seen yet if you can use quieter fans which,I'm sure you can we only know what they tell us unitll those that can afford it let us know with proof. I'm hoping sidehack can get nice a supply of chips I won't say at a reason price that's not gonna happpen but i hope he can i will  pay 700 to 900 bucks for two custom S7 boards. or buy one,  if they can run a long side a S5 18 pin board.

[toptek]

I don't understand why bitmain is not make scrypt miner.  

Because it turns out no one actually wants scypt miners.

That's the lie of the century, how about you ask your bosses for a real answer and not just one pulled out of behind your tail.

I was being nice .

[sidehack]

The question is, how many large industrial customers care about scrypt? Bitmain hasn't really cared about individuals or low-volume customers in a long time. If their farm customers don't want scrypt, Bitmain won't make scrypt no matter how many shallow-pocketed forum denizens band together in protest.

To be fair, I also don't care a whit about scrypt.

[toptek]

The question is, how many large industrial customers care about scrypt? Bitmain hasn't really cared about individuals or low-volume customers in a long time. If their farm customers don't want scrypt, Bitmain won't make scrypt no matter how many shallow-pocketed forum denizens band together in protest.

To be fair, I also don't care a whit about scrypt.

I know you don't but a a lot of us do it actually a lot of fun which is why i do it but to make money off it no way not now at one time you could and a lot . you can now but nothing you could . please don't get me wrong im  glad there is some one like you out there still that cares enough to want to keep the shallow-pocketed forum denizens going ty man .  i take that as a  honor not a insult.  IM not kissing you ass or just saying it either .all ready said way more then i wanted to about this interview.

I guess my whole point is again he shouldn't say it like no one wants it, I'm bing nice, i wont say lieing.  just not the whole truth.


 i see your point but i started out on litecoins and moved to bitcions and like doing both coins and made some stupid  buys a while back with Zeus miner because i thought they were going to sell upgrades and save some cash could have  bought a few A2 instead .

[toptek]

The question is, how many large industrial customers care about scrypt? Bitmain hasn't really cared about individuals or low-volume customers in a long time. If their farm customers don't want scrypt, Bitmain won't make scrypt no matter how many shallow-pocketed forum denizens band together in protest.

To be fair, I also don't care a whit about scrypt.

If I remember correctly doggie has stated that the L1 was actually made and I think it went to a large volume customer and that is why we never saw one in the hands of the public. I may be wrong on this but it was something to that effect.

he did i believe it now with thia interview and some of the shit the CEO said. i remember seeing some one selling batch two L1's for awhile then they were gone . what got me about that was L1 batch 2 .

[dogie]

I don't understand why bitmain is not make scrypt miner.  

Because it turns out no one actually wants scypt miners.

That's the lie of the century, how about you ask your bosses for a real answer and not just one pulled out of behind your tail.

No, its not. The L1 was never made [at least the first time around, who knows what they do quietly] because the sales numbers weren't what anyone thought they would be. You say they sold out, but the number that sold was paltry compared to any S* model. Legitimately almost nothing, and certainly not enough to justify a chip batch.

[graymatter]

And now looks like the S6 was "not offered"... so they kept it all to themselves?

Not offered = have chips + could make something S6 shaped + lets just wait. The S*even* has to clear rack space of something earlier to be sold in any volume, but there wasn't enough of an improvement to do that.

They skipped the S6 generation in lue of the S7, the construction / maintenance and shipping costs of the S7 are more economical than the larger rack mountable / form factored units, such as the S4 / S4+ / S2 generation.  The may or may not bring this form factor back in the S8 as it is not nearly as economical for bitmani

[VirosaGITS]

And now looks like the S6 was "not offered"... so they kept it all to themselves?

Not offered = have chips + could make something S6 shaped + lets just wait. The S*even* has to clear rack space of something earlier to be sold in any volume, but there wasn't enough of an improvement to do that.

They skipped the S6 generation in lue of the S7, the construction / maintenance and shipping costs of the S7 are more economical than the larger rack mountable / form factored units, such as the S4 / S4+ / S2 generation.  The may or may not bring this form factor back in the S8 as it is not nearly as economical for bitmani

Economical isin't much of a importance with them when they just charge the premium to the client anyways. Look at the price/gh of the S7. What more is there to say?

[pj40]

Indeed, i would love to see a 1800gh/450w unit. I don't really care that its double the KG(weight)/GH ratio. I don't really care that i'd have to pay 20$ shipping per TH instead of 10$/TH.

THAT. Is what i want. Not some AntRouter, not some 1400w unit that does 80dB.

^^^^^^ THIS!  I was hoping they'd release a model with twice the hash of our S5's so we could upgrade a bit.  This S7 is just way out of my league and no way I can drop 8 BTC just for one of them, when the halvening is looming ahead of us.  Guess I'll just mine through winter with my lower power rates and see what Spring brings.

[notlist3d]

Indeed, i would love to see a 1800gh/450w unit. I don't really care that its double the KG(weight)/GH ratio. I don't really care that i'd have to pay 20$ shipping per TH instead of 10$/TH.

THAT. Is what i want. Not some AntRouter, not some 1400w unit that does 80dB.

^^^^^^ THIS!  I was hoping they'd release a model with twice the hash of our S5's so we could upgrade a bit.  This S7 is just way out of my league and no way I can drop 8 BTC just for one of them, when the halvening is looming ahead of us.  Guess I'll just mine through winter with my lower power rates and see what Spring brings.

I have been pushing for this in the S7 thread and this seems to be a thing that a lot of people are wanting, now it just depends if Bitmain is willing to make them for us.

I think it's overestimated on how many want it.  I do agree some do want it.  But I think the S7 had more to do with price then form factor on some skipping it.

I think they will only get bigger and louder for the most part.