Scaling Bitcoin Above 3 Million TX pre block

[adamstgBit]

Put block limit at 1GB
Have minners send blocks using encoding  ( new 1GB block need only 4MBs to be propagated )
Requires full nodes and miners to be sitting behind >2MBPS internet connection with unlimited bandwidth.
and there you have it, bitcoin may now include 3 Million TX pre block, is that worth a little centralization?
how much centralization would this really require?
not much!

First off, the centralization would happen VERY SLOWLY, because obviously bitcoin isn't suddenly going to experience a 100,000X increase in transactions over night.

Second, once / if bitcoin does reach close to 5000TPS the requirements for miners and full node to run isn't very high, we're still taking home garde computers with home grade internet being able to handle this.

Third, ATM miners and full nodes are already somewhat centralized it's likely that these minimal requirements won't affect anyone at all. China might be affected once TX vol gose up 8X then it currently is today, chinese poeple may be required to run their full node outside of chain. so what? they will still be able to mine they won't give a shit, only you give a shit because you're scared of a Gigabyte.

[LiteCoinGuy]

but you would kill Blockstreams business model with this plan - you bastard!


/s

[mallard]

Have minners send blocks using encoding  ( new 1GB block need only 4MBs to be propagated )

Maybe you could be a bit more specific with this?
Or maybe you could be a bit more specific with your whole post.

[adamstgBit]

Have minners send blocks using encoding  ( new 1GB block need only 4MBs to be propagated )

Maybe you could be a bit more specific with this?
Or maybe you could be a bit more specific with your whole post.

this is what i mean.

The p2p protocol presently only supports propagation of solved blocks in full; i.e., blocks are not compressed.  

However, the Corallo Relay Network does support a sort of compression.  Rather than transmitting all the transactions in a solved blocks, since most the other miners know about them already, it just transmits indices that refer to each transaction (sort of like a map for how the TXs fit in the block). Greg Maxwell claims that the Corallo Relay Network attains a coding gain of about 250 (1 MB is compressed to about 4 kilobytes); however, I believe it is less in practice.  

Techniques like invertible bloom lookup tables (IBLTs) could also be used to compress solved blocks in the future; Rusty Russell is presently researching this possibility.    

i could be more specific, but i just want the general idea in OP

[brg444]

What would we do without your genius 

Scrap this weekend's Scaling Bitcoin conference you solved it all for us!!

[adamstgBit]

What would we do without your genius 

Scrap this weekend's Scaling Bitcoin conference you solved it all for us!!

your welcome.

[runpaint]

Has anyone ever talked about compressing the blocks?

[jonald_fyookball]

Has anyone ever talked about compressing the blocks?

Dunno... What about using pointers?  The question would be where do you store the stuff pointed to?

[adamstgBit]

Has anyone ever talked about compressing the blocks?

Dunno... What about using pointers?  The question would be where do you store the stuff pointed to?

there's already some miners that use a method of compressing blocks.

The p2p protocol presently only supports propagation of solved blocks in full; i.e., blocks are not compressed.  

However, the Corallo Relay Network does support a sort of compression.  Rather than transmitting all the transactions in a solved blocks, since most the other miners know about them already, it just transmits indices that refer to each transaction (sort of like a map for how the TXs fit in the block). Greg Maxwell claims that the Corallo Relay Network attains a coding gain of about 250 (1 MB is compressed to about 4 kilobytes); however, I believe it is less in practice.  

Techniques like invertible bloom lookup tables (IBLTs) could also be used to compress solved blocks in the future; Rusty Russell is presently researching this possibility.    

this isn't standard way of propagating new blocks but it could be...

using this method miners need only be able to keep up with the transactions as they happen and keep them in their mem pool
communicating the contents of a new block is trivial .

even with a home internet connection you could gather TX's are a rate of ~5000TPS

[brg444]

Has anyone ever talked about compressing the blocks?

Dunno... What about using pointers?  The question would be where do you store the stuff pointed to?

there's already some miners that use a method of compressing blocks.

The p2p protocol presently only supports propagation of solved blocks in full; i.e., blocks are not compressed. 

However, the Corallo Relay Network does support a sort of compression.  Rather than transmitting all the transactions in a solved blocks, since most the other miners know about them already, it just transmits indices that refer to each transaction (sort of like a map for how the TXs fit in the block). Greg Maxwell claims that the Corallo Relay Network attains a coding gain of about 250 (1 MB is compressed to about 4 kilobytes); however, I believe it is less in practice. 

Techniques like invertible bloom lookup tables (IBLTs) could also be used to compress solved blocks in the future; Rusty Russell is presently researching this possibility.   

That's not compression.

[jonald_fyookball]

whats the best place to read a summary of the corallo relay network?

[brg444]

whats the best place to read a summary of the corallo relay network?

http://bitcoinrelaynetwork.org/

[adamstgBit]

Has anyone ever talked about compressing the blocks?

Dunno... What about using pointers?  The question would be where do you store the stuff pointed to?

there's already some miners that use a method of compressing blocks.

The p2p protocol presently only supports propagation of solved blocks in full; i.e., blocks are not compressed.  

However, the Corallo Relay Network does support a sort of compression.  Rather than transmitting all the transactions in a solved blocks, since most the other miners know about them already, it just transmits indices that refer to each transaction (sort of like a map for how the TXs fit in the block). Greg Maxwell claims that the Corallo Relay Network attains a coding gain of about 250 (1 MB is compressed to about 4 kilobytes); however, I believe it is less in practice.  

Techniques like invertible bloom lookup tables (IBLTs) could also be used to compress solved blocks in the future; Rusty Russell is presently researching this possibility.    

That's not compression.

your right, but still its 250 times faster then sending out the whole block

the network could be optimized further by compressing each TX's before sending it out on the network

might not get much coding gain trying to "zip" TX its just ~300 very random bytes

[brg444]

Has anyone ever talked about compressing the blocks?

Dunno... What about using pointers?  The question would be where do you store the stuff pointed to?

there's already some miners that use a method of compressing blocks.

The p2p protocol presently only supports propagation of solved blocks in full; i.e., blocks are not compressed.  

However, the Corallo Relay Network does support a sort of compression.  Rather than transmitting all the transactions in a solved blocks, since most the other miners know about them already, it just transmits indices that refer to each transaction (sort of like a map for how the TXs fit in the block). Greg Maxwell claims that the Corallo Relay Network attains a coding gain of about 250 (1 MB is compressed to about 4 kilobytes); however, I believe it is less in practice.  

Techniques like invertible bloom lookup tables (IBLTs) could also be used to compress solved blocks in the future; Rusty Russell is presently researching this possibility.    

That's not compression.

your right, but still its 250 times faster then sending out the whole block

the network could be optimized further by compressing each TX's before sending it out on the network

might not get much coding gain trying to "zip" TX its just ~300 very random bytes

All of this doesn't avoid the necessity for the network to handle the full weight of these blocks. It's a transmission method and nothing more.

[adamstgBit]

Has anyone ever talked about compressing the blocks?

Dunno... What about using pointers?  The question would be where do you store the stuff pointed to?

there's already some miners that use a method of compressing blocks.

The p2p protocol presently only supports propagation of solved blocks in full; i.e., blocks are not compressed.  

However, the Corallo Relay Network does support a sort of compression.  Rather than transmitting all the transactions in a solved blocks, since most the other miners know about them already, it just transmits indices that refer to each transaction (sort of like a map for how the TXs fit in the block). Greg Maxwell claims that the Corallo Relay Network attains a coding gain of about 250 (1 MB is compressed to about 4 kilobytes); however, I believe it is less in practice.  

Techniques like invertible bloom lookup tables (IBLTs) could also be used to compress solved blocks in the future; Rusty Russell is presently researching this possibility.    

That's not compression.

your right, but still its 250 times faster then sending out the whole block

the network could be optimized further by compressing each TX's before sending it out on the network

might not get much coding gain trying to "zip" TX its just ~300 very random bytes

All of this doesn't avoid the necessity for the network to handle the full weight of these blocks. It's a transmission method and nothing more.

agreed

what we don't agree on is what is an expectable max weight for a block

i think its close to 500MB maybe 1GB

[brg444]

Has anyone ever talked about compressing the blocks?

Dunno... What about using pointers?  The question would be where do you store the stuff pointed to?

there's already some miners that use a method of compressing blocks.

The p2p protocol presently only supports propagation of solved blocks in full; i.e., blocks are not compressed.  

However, the Corallo Relay Network does support a sort of compression.  Rather than transmitting all the transactions in a solved blocks, since most the other miners know about them already, it just transmits indices that refer to each transaction (sort of like a map for how the TXs fit in the block). Greg Maxwell claims that the Corallo Relay Network attains a coding gain of about 250 (1 MB is compressed to about 4 kilobytes); however, I believe it is less in practice.  

Techniques like invertible bloom lookup tables (IBLTs) could also be used to compress solved blocks in the future; Rusty Russell is presently researching this possibility.    

That's not compression.

your right, but still its 250 times faster then sending out the whole block

the network could be optimized further by compressing each TX's before sending it out on the network

might not get much coding gain trying to "zip" TX its just ~300 very random bytes

All of this doesn't avoid the necessity for the network to handle the full weight of these blocks. It's a transmission method and nothing more.

agreed

what we don't agree on is what is an expectable max weight for a block

i think its close to 500MB maybe 1GB

Do you figure you're smarter than everyone or that all of us are retarded?

No one agree on any size but certainly you're the only coming up with that type of numbers. Maybe you'd like to consider you simply don't understand the issue well enough?

[jonald_fyookball]

if bitcoin had no block limit at all, it might be just fine. 
Miners would form consensus on appropriate size via
longest chain.

[adamstgBit]

Has anyone ever talked about compressing the blocks?

Dunno... What about using pointers?  The question would be where do you store the stuff pointed to?

there's already some miners that use a method of compressing blocks.

The p2p protocol presently only supports propagation of solved blocks in full; i.e., blocks are not compressed.  

However, the Corallo Relay Network does support a sort of compression.  Rather than transmitting all the transactions in a solved blocks, since most the other miners know about them already, it just transmits indices that refer to each transaction (sort of like a map for how the TXs fit in the block). Greg Maxwell claims that the Corallo Relay Network attains a coding gain of about 250 (1 MB is compressed to about 4 kilobytes); however, I believe it is less in practice.  

Techniques like invertible bloom lookup tables (IBLTs) could also be used to compress solved blocks in the future; Rusty Russell is presently researching this possibility.    

That's not compression.

your right, but still its 250 times faster then sending out the whole block

the network could be optimized further by compressing each TX's before sending it out on the network

might not get much coding gain trying to "zip" TX its just ~300 very random bytes

All of this doesn't avoid the necessity for the network to handle the full weight of these blocks. It's a transmission method and nothing more.

agreed

what we don't agree on is what is an expectable max weight for a block

i think its close to 500MB maybe 1GB

Do you figure you're smarter than everyone or that all of us are retarded?

No one agree on any size but certainly you're the only coming up with that type of numbers. Maybe you'd like to consider you simply don't understand the issue well enough?

i didn't pull this number out of my ass

its what a typical home connection is able to download in 10mins

maybe what we should do is find the node with the shittesty connection on the network currently ( a node from china) see how much it can download in 10mins, half that and use that as the upper limit

i bet that would be about 50MB

[jonald_fyookball]

Adam,the download time must be MUCH lower than the block interval.
Otherwise, the reorgs will be too high.

Do you get that?

[adamstgBit]

Adam,the download time must be MUST lower than the block interval.
Otherwise, the reorgs will be too high.

Do you get that?

reorgs?
with new block propagation being trivial thanks to "Corallo Relay Network" we only need nodes to be able to keep up with the TPS
so if every user on the network can comfortably download 100MB in 10mins, there shouldn't be any problem using 100MB as the block limit
actually there WOULD be a problem if block were bigger than this limit, which is what the limit should be about in the first place.