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Author Topic: Could countries actually outlaw individual businesses from accepting Bitcoin?  (Read 2611 times)
itsagas
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June 03, 2011, 10:02:11 PM
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And could they even enforce it?

Especially for small businesses.  I am thinking we don't even need the big companies to take Bitcoin.  Just 100s of thousands of small businesses around the world and it would be very established..

Thoughts?
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dissipate
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June 03, 2011, 10:13:25 PM
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I'm no lawyer, but I think they would have to outlaw barter, which would have a lot of other consequences. If they specifically outlawed Bitcoin, then say hello to Bytecoin!
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June 03, 2011, 10:14:26 PM
 #3

They could try and outlaw it (which would ironically "legitimise" the currency so much that it would be a dumb move right now).


It would be 100% impossible to enforce such a ban however.
itsagas
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June 03, 2011, 10:19:23 PM
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I would think that such a move would also bring attention (and funding) of "bad money" into the Bitcoin system faster.  I haven't figured out if that is a good or bad thing yet.   

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June 03, 2011, 10:21:22 PM
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A private two party contract is sacred throughout the world of Uniform Commercial Code.  As long as your not using a countries currency in the transaction it should be outside their jurisdiction regardless of where on land the two parties actually take breath.

this is wrong in almost too many ways to name. for one thing, the ucc is actually just an american set of laws, and it's not even adopted everywhere in america. moreover, the ucc prevents many kinds of private two-party contracts.

as a more general point, it would be a grand thing if people whose political ideology depends almost entirely on 'voluntary contracts' would actually learn something about voluntary contracts. they're not what most libertarians believe them to be in nearly any legal regime.

if a jurisdiction wants to prevent businesses from accepting bitcoins, they could simply do so outright. in the united states, the only issue would potentially be federalism. elsewhere in the west, there would be essentially no constitutional barriers.
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June 03, 2011, 10:22:49 PM
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Small businesses in the US were heavily subsidized through the Bush years.  I imagine most of those are still in place.  Just like with farm subsidies, many of the chokepoints required to control the US economy are already incentivized to go along with the status quo.  It should be possible to poach a few stragglers, since the status quo is becoming less viable every day.  But don't expect to be able to successfully target any particular area.

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June 03, 2011, 11:11:28 PM
 #7

Short answer - yes, they can.
All other opinions are just speculations, what they can do immediatly, and what they can after some time.

What you should bring in consideration - Goverments is not sure of bitcoins results to economics.
They are curios, like we are, on destiny of crypto currency. We still have some gap.

I am count this gap, as at least one year. Look at the date when Gavin was invited to the CIA conference and make a rough estimation

We will  meet in not-so-distant future.
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June 03, 2011, 11:35:55 PM
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June 04, 2011, 02:24:31 AM
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Jaime Frontero
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June 04, 2011, 04:40:41 AM
 #10

Bitcoin is already illegal in most places.  even in the US.

do a little research into the legalities of cryptography.

it pretty much depends on how various governments choose to interpret and use the laws they already have on the books.  there's probably a good reason why the chinese haven't taken much to Bitcoin - my understanding is that a license is required there, to use any kind of crypto.
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June 04, 2011, 04:46:18 AM
 #11

Bitcoin is already illegal in most places.  even in the US.

do a little research into the legalities of cryptography....

Please try to "prove" your statement.
FYI: Some cryptography programs cannot be legally distributed on USA servers, but they can be used by end users.
One simple example is https (SSL); If cryptography itself was as illegal as you imply, then there would be no eCommerce, correct?

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FreeMoney
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June 04, 2011, 04:56:35 AM
 #12

Bitcoin is already illegal in most places.  even in the US.

do a little research into the legalities of cryptography.

it pretty much depends on how various governments choose to interpret and use the laws they already have on the books.  there's probably a good reason why the chinese haven't taken much to Bitcoin - my understanding is that a license is required there, to use any kind of crypto.

Yeah, I heard they put everyone in jail who used a password at any site. That's why the jails are overflowing.

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Jaime Frontero
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June 04, 2011, 04:59:26 AM
 #13

Bitcoin is already illegal in most places.  even in the US.

do a little research into the legalities of cryptography....

Please try to "prove" your statement.
FYI: Some cryptography programs cannot be legally distributed on USA servers, but they can be used by end users.
One simple example is https (SSL); If cryptography itself was as illegal as you imply, then there would be no eCommerce, correct?

are you in the US, and do you connect to slush's pool in the czech republic?  did you download the Bitcoin client from a server located in another country?

i believe the case could easily be made (by Department of Commerce's Bureau of Industry and Security) that you have committed a felony.

Quote
the difference between a good bureaucrat and a bad bureaucrat is that one will look through the lawbooks until he finds a law that says you can do what you want to do - but the other will look until finding a law that says you can't.

there are literally thousands of laws just in the US about cryptography.  believe me - any time the g feels like pressing charges they will.  they don't need any new laws.
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June 04, 2011, 05:32:05 AM
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Quote

there are literally thousands of laws just in the US about cryptography.  believe me - any time the g feels like pressing charges they will.  they don't need any new laws.

While I acknowledge this, you have not provided any statutes that back up your claim that "Bitcoin is already illegal in most places.  even in the US."
Jaime Frontero
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June 04, 2011, 05:48:46 AM
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Quote

there are literally thousands of laws just in the US about cryptography.  believe me - any time the g feels like pressing charges they will.  they don't need any new laws.

While I acknowledge this, you have not provided any statutes that back up your claim that "Bitcoin is already illegal in most places.  even in the US."

nor will i.  do your own research.

start here, if you need a hint:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_in_the_United_States

there's plenty of citations, *.gov sites, and references for even the most steadfastly masochistic.
DannyM
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June 04, 2011, 05:56:20 AM
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That link does not relate to bitcoin being illegal. It it discusses the regulations of the United States regarding the -exportation- of crypto systems outside of the country, not their -use-.

I had a bad day and I'm feeding the trolls. I'm sorry. I'll stop.
Bit_Happy
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June 04, 2011, 05:57:07 AM
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The export of cryptography in the United States is the transfer from the United States to another country of devices and technology related to cryptography.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_in_the_United_States
^^^

LOL!!?
You are here trying to claim "Bitcoins are already illegal" and that is your primary attempt to prove your statement?

Let's try again to find a reasonable starting point:
One simple example is https (SSL); If cryptography itself was as illegal as you imply (for end users), then there would be no eCommerce, correct?

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Jaime Frontero
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June 04, 2011, 06:03:28 AM
 #18

no.  see... that's not how it works.

you've already acknowledged that i am correct ("While I acknowledge this...").

me: "i'd like to buy that fine looking loaf of bread you have there, for my 0.3 Bitcoin."

you: "sure - here y'go."

me: "thank you very much."

you:  "no - wait!  you can't leave until you prove to me that i've made a good deal."

me: "sure i can."

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gigabytecoin
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June 04, 2011, 06:17:49 AM
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Zimbabwe tried to outlaw businesses raising prices during their tough inflationary times... anything is possible.
Crs
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June 04, 2011, 09:19:18 AM
 #20

Well, they've pulled the plug on the net in Egypt,Iran, Syria (?), so they can stop bitcoin if they really want to. It's not gonna be easy, but they can do it. Nothing is safe in this world, especially when we're talking about internet related stuff.

If my post has been useful, you might want to donate: 1V7zr2jmQQXS5gv2kKNpUkgG6qmDffTZp
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