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Yuhfhrh
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October 11, 2012, 03:12:21 PM |
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That makes sense.
And for PP chargebacks ... if you show Paypal the ebay mails with the buyer's code and then the transaction details from blockchain explorer, isn't it proof enough that you have delivered the goods?
No. In theory it could but PP "investigation" doesn't really care. They are more like "checking the block" and looking for signs of blatantly obvious fraud. There goal isn't to protect you but merely to protect PP brand/image. They have no interest (or time) to do any detailed research of authenticating emails, learning about the blockchain and how that can prove funds were sent. 1 make a new wallet 2 print in on paper 3 put funds on that wallet 4 sent paper via mail keep prof of sending mail 5 no charge backs can be done anyone who want to charge back scam you is fucked Or the buyer could just say you sent them a blank piece of paper... |
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Severian (OP)
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October 11, 2012, 03:22:10 PM |
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So when you try to show proof that you delivered the bitcoin currency, you establish that you are in violation of the PayPal User Agreement 9.1.a.
Bitcoin is a commodity, not just a currency. By that rule, silver Eagles and other coins with face value would also be banned. |
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Severian (OP)
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October 11, 2012, 03:24:39 PM |
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Or the buyer could just say you sent them a blank piece of paper...
Advertise physical bitcoins. |
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Yuhfhrh
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October 11, 2012, 03:27:09 PM |
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Or the buyer could just say you sent them a blank piece of paper...
Advertise physical bitcoins. I meant either way the buyer could just say you shipped them a rock, piece of paper, or nothing. And no matter what paypal is going to refund the buyer. Once they hear "bitcoin" they are going to put their fingers in their ears and say, "la la la paypal policy lalala we are sorry ebay buyer protection lalalalalala" |
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Severian (OP)
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October 11, 2012, 03:32:25 PM |
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I meant either way the buyer could just say you shipped them a rock, piece of paper, or nothing. And no matter what paypal is going to refund the buyer. Once they hear "bitcoin" they are going to put their fingers in their ears and say, "la la la paypal policy lalala we are sorry ebay buyer protection lalalalalala"
Hence the high price on Ebay necessitated by any research of the buyer involved and possibility of fraud by the buyer. People seem willing to pay it to get bitcoins. |
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adamstgBit
Legendary
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Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
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October 11, 2012, 03:50:27 PM |
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That makes sense.
And for PP chargebacks ... if you show Paypal the ebay mails with the buyer's code and then the transaction details from blockchain explorer, isn't it proof enough that you have delivered the goods?
No. In theory it could but PP "investigation" doesn't really care. They are more like "checking the block" and looking for signs of blatantly obvious fraud. There goal isn't to protect you but merely to protect PP brand/image. They have no interest (or time) to do any detailed research of authenticating emails, learning about the blockchain and how that can prove funds were sent. 1 make a new wallet 2 print in on paper 3 put funds on that wallet 4 sent paper via mail keep prof of sending mail 5 no charge backs can be done anyone who want to charge back scam you is fucked PP can still do a charge back if the the acc owner claims he was hacked i think. and you can only sell so much on ebay. its not like Ebay is trading 10K a day of bitcoins  i try to sell once and the guy who won never paid, got scared of charge backs and never tried to sell a bitcoin on ebay https://www.bitcoinary.com/ is good. |
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Severian (OP)
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October 11, 2012, 04:47:42 PM |
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mobodick
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October 11, 2012, 05:32:42 PM |
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"Price: US $36.15" LOL!I wonder how many he'll actually get sold at that price. |
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SgtSpike
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Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
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October 11, 2012, 05:34:56 PM |
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Anyone here actually tried this? Seems like it would be nothing to sell 20 bitcoins on ebay for $20 and then buy 33btc back.
...until the user files a Paypal dispute, and you lose because you're selling Bitcoins. I'm not sure that I would count on physically shipping something along with the Bitcoins either - if the customer claims a misrepresentation of the item for sale, Paypal could still very well side with them. |
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Yuhfhrh
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October 11, 2012, 05:36:55 PM |
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Anyone here actually tried this? Seems like it would be nothing to sell 20 bitcoins on ebay for $20 and then buy 33btc back.
...until the user files a Paypal dispute, and you lose because you're selling Bitcoins. I'm not sure that I would count on physically shipping something along with the Bitcoins either - if the customer claims a misrepresentation of the item for sale, Paypal could still very well side with them. I personally think they are a little undervalued considering the amount of fraud that most certainly takes place. |
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ralree
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October 11, 2012, 05:37:22 PM |
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And for PP chargebacks ... if you show Paypal the ebay mails with the buyer's code and then the transaction details from blockchain explorer, isn't it proof enough that you have delivered the goods?
I'd send them a paper bitcoin via the mail as proof of sale.
No. In theory it could but PP "investigation" doesn't really care.
Under " Prohibited Activities", the PayPal " Acceptable Use Policy" states: You may not use the PayPal service for activities that . . . relate to transactions that . . . involve currency exchanges
So when you try to show proof that you delivered the bitcoin currency, you establish that you are in violation of the PayPal User Agreement 9.1.a. Wait, so if I buy a $5 CAD face value silver maple coin or a $1 face value silver american eagle coin, the seller is violating that policy? It's legal tender.. Shouldn't I be able to send the buyer a printed bitcoin certificate? |
1MANaTeEZoH4YkgMYz61E5y4s9BYhAuUjG
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mobodick
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October 11, 2012, 05:44:24 PM |
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Anyone here actually tried this? Seems like it would be nothing to sell 20 bitcoins on ebay for $20 and then buy 33btc back.
...until the user files a Paypal dispute, and you lose because you're selling Bitcoins. I'm not sure that I would count on physically shipping something along with the Bitcoins either - if the customer claims a misrepresentation of the item for sale, Paypal could still very well side with them. I personally think they are a little undervalued considering the amount of fraud that most certainly takes place. If, as you say, fraud takes place, then a lower value is fully justified. |
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firefop
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October 11, 2012, 05:53:52 PM |
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1 make a new wallet
2 print in on paper
3 put funds on that wallet
4 sent paper via mail keep prof of sending mail
5 no charge backs can be done anyone who want to charge back scam you is fucked
This doesn't protect you at all. The problem with chargebacks is when someone uses a stolen creditcard to pay for purchased via paypal. It all looks good until a week or two later when paypay refunds the transactions (After the creditcard is reported stolen) and you've already mailed your paper wallet. |
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mb300sd
Legendary
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Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Drunk Posts
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October 11, 2012, 06:01:09 PM |
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1 make a new wallet
2 print in on paper
3 put funds on that wallet
4 sent paper via mail keep prof of sending mail
5 no charge backs can be done anyone who want to charge back scam you is fucked
This doesn't protect you at all. The problem with chargebacks is when someone uses a stolen creditcard to pay for purchased via paypal. It all looks good until a week or two later when paypay refunds the transactions (After the creditcard is reported stolen) and you've already mailed your paper wallet. But then you have an address to mail tons of steaming dog shit to. |
1D7FJWRzeKa4SLmTznd3JpeNU13L1ErEco
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myself
Legendary
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Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
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October 11, 2012, 06:31:14 PM |
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1 make a new wallet
2 print in on paper
3 put funds on that wallet
4 sent paper via mail keep prof of sending mail
5 no charge backs can be done anyone who want to charge back scam you is fucked
This doesn't protect you at all. The problem with chargebacks is when someone uses a stolen creditcard to pay for purchased via paypal. It all looks good until a week or two later when paypay refunds the transactions (After the creditcard is reported stolen) and you've already mailed your paper wallet. you can sent the coins only after the charge back time window is closed |
Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
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Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
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October 11, 2012, 06:38:48 PM |
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180 days?
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myself
Legendary
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Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
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October 11, 2012, 06:51:47 PM |
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180 days?
maybe for USA but in EU is 30 working days, also chargebacks are not allowed if you need to confirm the purchase via one time use code sent on mobile phone, enabled by default for any purchase online above 50 EUR |
Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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GenTarkin
Legendary
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Activity: 2450
Merit: 1002
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October 11, 2012, 07:12:27 PM |
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crazy ebay prices lol
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DoomDumas
Legendary
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Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin
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October 11, 2012, 10:24:26 PM |
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Because mtgox and other methods are a pain for many and ebay is a known entity. Some folks also might not know any better.
That makes sense. And for PP chargebacks ... if you show Paypal the ebay mails with the buyer's code and then the transaction details from blockchain explorer, isn't it proof enough that you have delivered the goods? I doubt PP will get to understand it, and even worse, admit it as a real good traded.. BTC are kind of their wrost competitor !! Will they get acknoledge BTC, and admit it's a currency or tradable good ?? Let me doubt about it ! |
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Cranky4u
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October 11, 2012, 11:14:37 PM |
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Any ideas on why people are paying $20+ a pop when they can get for $9 cheaper?
Because mtgox and other methods are a pain for many and ebay is a known entity. Some folks also might not know any better. ADD: If people are willing to pay $20, it shows a truer price than what's reflected on the exchanges. For the avergae person, the current purchasing methods are just a pain the arse. Even as an "educated user", I don't buy coins because it is a pain in the arse to set up. An bitcoin wallet is easier to establish and using an existing medium to purchase them (ebay + paypal), is more user friendly. I can already hear the cries of anguish over such statements but take a step back and consider the target user. There is still a lot of people that find IT things culturally difficult, such as; 1. internet banking 2. installing applications 3. understanding a virus Not everyone grew up with a keyboard in their mouth. Now if we could get a bitcoin wallet widget to interface with more user friendly methods such as direct paypal then adoption might accelerate (example only) |
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