True market price of bitcoins = $20?

[notme]

Any ideas on why people are paying $20+ a pop when they can get for $9 cheaper?

Because mtgox and other methods are a pain for many and ebay is a known entity. Some folks also might not know any better.

ADD: If people are willing to pay $20, it shows a truer price than what's reflected on the exchanges.

For the avergae person, the current purchasing methods are just a pain the arse. Even as an "educated user", I don't buy coins because it is a pain in the arse to set up.

An bitcoin wallet is easier to establish and using an existing medium to purchase them (ebay + paypal), is more user friendly. I can already hear the cries of anguish over such statements but take a step back and consider the target user. There is still a lot of people that find IT things culturally difficult, such as;
1. internet banking
2. installing applications
3. understanding a virus

Not everyone grew up with a keyboard in their mouth.

Now if we could get a bitcoin wallet widget to interface with more user friendly methods such as direct paypal then adoption might accelerate (example only)

No, existing bitcoiners getting scammed would accelerate and the bad press would scare off new users.

[FreeMoney]

That makes sense.

And for PP chargebacks ... if you show Paypal the ebay mails with the buyer's code and then the transaction details from blockchain explorer, isn't it proof enough that you have delivered the goods?

No.  In theory it could but PP "investigation" doesn't really care.  They are more like "checking the block" and looking for signs of blatantly obvious fraud.  There goal isn't to protect you but merely to protect PP brand/image.  They have no interest (or time) to do any detailed research of authenticating emails, learning about the blockchain and how that can prove funds were sent.

1 make a new wallet
2 print in on paper
3 put funds on that wallet
4 sent paper via mail keep prof of sending mail
5 no charge backs can be done anyone who want to charge back scam you is fucked

Not really. They used a stolen card or account and the real owner says so and gets the money back.

[justusranvier]

For the avergae person, the current purchasing methods are just a pain the arse. Even as an "educated user", I don't buy coins because it is a pain in the arse to set up.

I don't see how it could get much easier than buying bitcoins through BitInstant.

[zoinky]

For the avergae person, the current purchasing methods are just a pain the arse. Even as an "educated user", I don't buy coins because it is a pain in the arse to set up.

I don't see how it could get much easier than buying bitcoins through BitInstant.

BitInstant fees are way too high especially if you are trying to buy thousands of dollars worth of BTC.

[justusranvier]

BitInstant fees are way too high especially if you are trying to buy thousands of dollars worth of BTC.

I understood the criteria in the post I quoted to be easy, not cheap.

[RyNinDaCleM]

For the avergae person, the current purchasing methods are just a pain the arse. Even as an "educated user", I don't buy coins because it is a pain in the arse to set up.

I don't see how it could get much easier than buying bitcoins through BitInstant.

BitInstant fees are way too high especially if you are trying to buy thousands of dollars worth of BTC.

It's still cheaper than the "$20+" per coin offered on the bay!  

[byronbb]

Premise: The market place with the lowest liquidity is most efficient.

[BitcoinCoffee.com]

As an old friend once told me about ebay bitcoin prices:

"Shills be shillin'"

[kjlimo]

For the avergae person, the current purchasing methods are just a pain the arse. Even as an "educated user", I don't buy coins because it is a pain in the arse to set up.

I don't see how it could get much easier than buying bitcoins through BitInstant.

BitInstant fees are way too high especially if you are trying to buy thousands of dollars worth of BTC.

We're talking about transactions for 1 or 2 bitcoins.

As an old friend once told me about ebay bitcoin prices:

"Shills be shillin'"

Good point. 

Either way, it's still on my to-do list to check out after I read the taxation rules & make my BFL video & investigate incorporating a mining company... man my to-do list just never seems to end! 

~ciao

[Rygon]

Arbitrage bitchez! Seriously, it would be worth it to sell a couple BTC, 1 at a time and see how much scamming there really is. Probably not gonna get rich doing it, but it could be a fun way to make a few dollars on the weekend without having to physically ship anything.

Edit: $96 for 2 BTC? LOLZ
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-0-Bitcoins-/251163099537?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item3a7a7cc191

[RyNinDaCleM]

Edit: $96 for 2 BTC? LOLZ
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-0-Bitcoins-/251163099537?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item3a7a7cc191

No amount of convenience is worth an ass raping like that!

Well, I guess you can't rape the willing, but that is absurd! 

[novusordo]

1 make a new wallet
2 print in on paper
3 put funds on that wallet
4 sent paper via mail keep prof of sending mail
5 no charge backs can be done anyone who want to charge back scam you is fucked

This doesn't protect you at all.

The problem with chargebacks is when someone uses a stolen creditcard to pay for purchased via paypal. It all looks good until a week or two later when paypay refunds the transactions (After the creditcard is reported stolen) and you've already mailed your paper wallet.

But then you have an address to mail tons of steaming dog shit to.

Goatse postcards, too.

[P_Shep]

Arbitrage bitchez! Seriously, it would be worth it to sell a couple BTC, 1 at a time and see how much scamming there really is. Probably not gonna get rich doing it, but it could be a fun way to make a few dollars on the weekend without having to physically ship anything.

Edit: $96 for 2 BTC? LOLZ
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-0-Bitcoins-/251163099537?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item3a7a7cc191

Almost makes me want to sell mine on Ebay.

Damn!

[justusranvier]

A few sales of bitcoins at a price much higher than on the exchanges does not mean the market price is "wrong".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand_curve

[mobodick]

A few sales of bitcoins at a price much higher than on the exchanges does not mean the market price is "wrong".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand_curve

It's even worse than that.
You just can't make such assumptions based on a single or a few cases.
If i give you one dollar for free (clearly not market price) , how does that lead to a blanket statement about the whole economy?

The problem is at the data acquisition level and does not touch any theory as the theories are based on aggregates.

[DoomDumas]

Edit: $96 for 2 BTC? LOLZ
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-0-Bitcoins-/251163099537?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item3a7a7cc191

No amount of convenience is worth an ass raping like that!

Well, I guess you can't rape the willing, but that is absurd! 

I bet the paypal will be reversed by the buyer on this one !

[Valle]

I've tried to sell some coins and got scammed. The buyer just said that someone else got access to it's account and bought these coins. So these prices include a huge risk.

[molecular]

Because mtgox and other methods are a pain for many and ebay is a known entity. Some folks also might not know any better.

That makes sense.

And for PP chargebacks ... if you show Paypal the ebay mails with the buyer's code and then the transaction details from blockchain explorer, isn't it proof enough that you have delivered the goods?

[bobitza]

I was serious ... because I didn't know better

Nice pic.