BitTorrent Creator Weighs in on Bitcoin-XT

[Hydrogen]

https://twitter.com/bramcohen/status/632954147994750980

 

[gogxmagog]

So says a guy who invented a software that is primarily used to share stolen content. His opinion is like almost everyone else's; irrelevant. What are all these suckers going to say, or even do, when consensus is reached and all this debate is in the past? Besides, I don't see any of them offering up any sort of other solutions.

[stuff0577]

Everybody can give their support on what they like. Its up to them if they will go with it.

[B4zzA]

If the miners want it, it will happen regardless of who else weighs in.

[Eastwind]

If the miners want it, it will happen regardless of who else weighs in.

Yes. Miner determines the fate of the coin.

[Amph]

If the miners want it, it will happen regardless of who else weighs in.

Yes. Miner determines the fate of the coin.

i would add, merchants also, if coins cannot be sold anywhere because exchange and merchants refuse to follow the miners rout, i'm sure miners are in trouble too

yeah they could sell privately, but the general valuf of bitcoin will begin to decline, until a bad positition with no recover...

[Lauda]

I do not understand how his credentials (i.e. creator of BitTorrent) are relevant to this at all? His opinion should be valued just as much as the opinion of any random (legit) account here. The war between Core and XT (and everyone pitching in) needs to stop. This is not beneficial for either party.

[uxgpf]

The war between Core and XT (and everyone pitching in) needs to stop. This is not beneficial for either party.

+1

Bram Cohen says nothing constructive here. I'd rather hear his comments about technical merits/drawbacks of different proposals or styles of governance.

/r/bitcoin has lots of trolls and fanboys, no surprise there. But in between all that there's a lot of reasonable discussion going on. It's good to keep in mind that all of us just want the best for Bitcoin.

[GriffinHeart]

Bitcoin XT will never be worth it in the long run. Bigger blocks means less value pumped out per block.
Really, it's a parasite feeding off Core at the moment, it will never be beneficial for our bitcoin community.

[randy8777]

If the miners want it, it will happen regardless of who else weighs in.

Yes. Miner determines the fate of the coin.

china has the largest share of the bitcoin network, and they don't like the xt client. as long as they stick with the regular client, there won't be much to worry about. beside that, the amount of xt nodes according to bitnodes.io have come down quite hard to just 372 which equals 6.46%. that says enough. or most of them were installed on trial servers that are slowly expiring.

[Borisz]

Bitcoin XT will never be worth it in the long run. Bigger blocks means less value pumped out per block.
Really, it's a parasite feeding off Core at the moment, it will never be beneficial for our bitcoin community.

Depends on how many transactions there are, doesn't it?
Also, it had quite an impact on BTC price as well recently (or at least that was discussed mostly). Bitcoin will get slapped left and right if a few more things like this happen. It may not cause a problem for intermediate users, but definitely makes less experienced people mistrust everything that has the word "bitcoin" in it.

[unamis76]

I'm also on the opinion that his statements don't count more than the statement of any one of us here. He did not invent a decentralized system, he just opened the doors for people to decentralize Bittorrent.

He might not even be a Bitcoin user... So he's just throwing more wood in the fire.

[Carlton Banks]

I dunno everyone, maybe his opinion is worth a little bit: he's the creator/maintainer of the most successful peer to peer network there is. Bitcoin owes a small something to that success in a way; Bram Cohen set the precedent that it can be done, scalably, and with longevity. Bittorrent succeeded where Skype failed, if we're talking p2p.

[Mickeyb]

I do not understand how his credentials (i.e. creator of BitTorrent) are relevant to this at all? His opinion should be valued just as much as the opinion of any random (legit) account here. The war between Core and XT (and everyone pitching in) needs to stop. This is not beneficial for either party.

Easier said than done! With today's technology, it's easy for people and their voices to be heard out there. The only problem is that you hear fools as much as the smart ones, maybe even more.

As for the XT thing, it seems that this is all over with. It to crystal clear that they haven't won any support out there. It will be interesting to see what will they try next!

[oblivi]

I do not understand how his credentials (i.e. creator of BitTorrent) are relevant to this at all? His opinion should be valued just as much as the opinion of any random (legit) account here. The war between Core and XT (and everyone pitching in) needs to stop. This is not beneficial for either party.

It is beneficial I think, different opinions are unavoidable and there will always be unsolved tensions, so whoever wins the war will be the one that survives, which I hope is Core and at this point it's safe to say that no one really cares about XT and the problem will be solved within core through a BIP and implementation of the lightning network.

[yayayo]

I do not understand how his credentials (i.e. creator of BitTorrent) are relevant to this at all? His opinion should be valued just as much as the opinion of any random (legit) account here. The war between Core and XT (and everyone pitching in) needs to stop. This is not beneficial for either party.

I think he has a much higher level of technical knowledge than most (random) accounts here and on reddit. So he knows what he is talking about, when he uses the term "engineering". He is absolutely right when he is pointing out, that basing engineering decisions on public opinion is dangerous, because the public will most likely support the solution that is the most easy to understand and has the best marketing, not necessarily the best solution.

The war will soon end. XTcoin nodes are already declining, never reaching any significant portion of the network. The declaration of war by Gavin Andresen and Mike Hearn was an utterly stupid move, that has damaged their credibility beyond repair.

ya.ya.yo!

[Lauda]

I think he has a much higher level of technical knowledge than most (random) accounts here and on reddit. So he knows what he is talking about, when he uses the term "engineering". He is absolutely right when he is pointing out, that basing engineering decisions on public opinion is dangerous, because the public will most likely support the solution that is the most easy to understand and has the best marketing, not necessarily the best solution.

The war will soon end. XTcoin nodes are already declining, never reaching any significant portion of the network. The declaration of war by Gavin Andresen and Mike Hearn was an utterly stupid move, that has damaged their credibility beyond repair.

ya.ya.yo!

My point was completely different. I never said that I disagree with him. My point was that just because he created BitTorrent that people should not expect his opinions to be correct all the time. He does make a decent point. However, I would rather we stop fighting the Core vs XT war. Even people presenting on the workshop have failed to stop this (e.g. Peter R adding slide related to XT).

It is beneficial I think, different opinions are unavoidable and there will always be unsolved tensions, so whoever wins the war will be the one that survives, which I hope is Core and at this point it's safe to say that no one really cares about XT and the problem will be solved within core through a BIP and implementation of the lightning network.

There is no actual problem right now. This is a made up problem. Are transactions with proper fees going through? Yes, they are and no, I'm not implying that I do not agree to a block size increase.

[Hydrogen]

For those not in the know, Bram Cohem is one of the best (if not the best) network architects and engineers on planet earth.  When people discuss Bitcoin-XT and topics like lightning networks and block sizes--issues relating to network software engineering, they're essentially entering Bram Cohen's world.  Its entertaining and ironic that people can claim they know about as much about lightning networks and block sizes than someone who just happens to be one of the best at implementing, designing and analyzing those algorithmic based solutions in the whole wide world.

"Yeah, brah.  Bram Cohen.  He doesn't know more about this bitcoin-XT networking stuff than the average poster on reddit."
"Who the hell does this Bram Cohen guy think he is!?  He doesn't know shit about lightning networks!  Certainly no more than the average reddit poster!"

 

[NorrisK]

If the miners want it, it will happen regardless of who else weighs in.

I'm getting quite sick of the power that is given to the miners in these cases... Shouldn't we be one big family? They should not be the only ones to make deciscions, because it will always be in their interest...

[RGBKey]

Nothing is ever going to get accomplished if everyone on here is fighting, there needs to be some kind of agreement.