Let's stop telling newbies that they can buy an account to join sig campaigns.

[twister]

I was just over at Beginners and help section and saw a thread where a newbie was asking about pay per post and how one gets paid through the forum (He thought that forum members get paid by forum) and some people corrected him saying that it's not the forum that pays but the signature campaigners does and since he's a newbie he won't get paid much.

And someone else suggested that he should buy an account and that way he can join high paying campaigns and receive good ROI. Now I know forum doesn't minds selling/buying of accounts but I don't think it's right to tell any newbie that comes through the door that he should simply buy an account and join sig campaigns. We were all newbies once and where we are right now we spent a lot of time and effort to be here and ultimately they might learn about this but let's not suggest this as the first thing.

So can I report such posts which suggests newbies to buy accounts to Mods and hope that they get removed? I think all this account buying/selling does more bad than good and it should atleast not be recommended to newbies.  

[hilariousandco]

Now I know forum doesn't minds selling/buying of accounts but I don't think it's right to tell any newbie that comes through the door that he should simply buy an account and join sig campaigns. We were all newbies once and where we are right now we spent a lot of time and effort to be here and ultimately they might learn about this but let's not suggest this as the first thing.

You might not think it's right, but that's just your opinion. The responses he got are valid and is arguably good advice. It is well worth it for someone to invest in an account to bypass the restrictions and some people wont want to wait many months just to get to a rank where they can earn decent amount.

So can I report such posts which suggests newbies to buy accounts to Mods and hope that they get removed? I think all this account buying/selling does more bad than good and it should atleast not be recommended to newbies.  

You can report them but you'll almost certainly get a bad report.

[Welsh]

So can I report such posts which suggests newbies to buy accounts to Mods and hope that they get removed? I think all this account buying/selling does more bad than good and it should atleast not be recommended to newbies.  

They won't be removed. It's likely, that if a newbie comes here for the sole purpose of earning money through posting, they are going to be spamming, and will be dealt with sooner or later by a staff member. If they aren't spamming, and contributing to discussions and the forum, then I don't see a problem with them purchasing an account for signature campaigns.

[Outlander]

Buying and selling accounts are not against forum's rule since the admin or mods are not banning it publicly. It is a free forum anyone can do whatever he likes if he is not spamming or trolling here!

[ndnh]

Yeah, I agree with you. But no one really does anything.. In fact I have a feeling the practice is actually encouraged.


Just because there is no rule saying anyone can do this or that around here, doesn't mean they are completely allowed to. Isn't there any rule against doxxing

[Welsh]

Yeah, I agree with you. But no one really does anything.. In fact I have a feeling the practice is actually encouraged.


Just because there is no rule saying anyone can do this or that around here, doesn't mean they are completely allowed to. Isn't there any rule against doxxing

There's no rule against doxing. Selling/Buying accounts is completely allowed. There's no grey area, it's been stated by multiple sources including staff members that account trading is allowed. Unless, the account trading interferes with another rule, such as ban evasion for example it's completely allowed. Personally, I don't think it's encouraged much either, it's frowned upon by much of the community or at least was.

What about deleting DOXes?
A: Nope, we don't delete them either as long as they are on topic. Why? Because doxing is just compiling information about a user already available publicly, often via search engines

[antagonist]

did you ever think they are sockpuppets?, create new accounts, asking a basic questions, answer with their alts for sig campaign.

[twister]

Now I know forum doesn't minds selling/buying of accounts but I don't think it's right to tell any newbie that comes through the door that he should simply buy an account and join sig campaigns. We were all newbies once and where we are right now we spent a lot of time and effort to be here and ultimately they might learn about this but let's not suggest this as the first thing.

You might not think it's right, but that's just your opinion. The responses he got are valid and is arguably good advice. It is well worth it for someone to invest in an account to bypass the restrictions and some people wont want to wait many months just to get to a rank where they can earn decent amount.

So can I report such posts which suggests newbies to buy accounts to Mods and hope that they get removed? I think all this account buying/selling does more bad than good and it should atleast not be recommended to newbies. 

You can report them but you'll almost certainly get a bad report.

Ok. I'll just turn a blind eye then.

[notlist3d]

did you ever think they are sockpuppets?, create new accounts, asking a basic questions, answer with their alts for sig campaign.

Way to much work and sad if anyone is doing this.  I do think there are sockpuppets in some of the sales threads, i view a lot of the new accounts that put a vouch as this.

As far as newbies I suggest anymore they wait till member or so.  Get use to using forum and posting good post's, that are not crap.   But I'm sure most ignore this which is their right to do.

[Xian01]

Every time an account gets sold and bought on Bitcointalk, Theymos gets another pineapple shoved up his ass in hell.

[el kaka22]

Are OP talking my post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1180831.msg12427431#msg12427431 ?
Well, as previous posts here said, selling/buying accounts are allowed, and here's a quote from the unofficial list of rules thread:

18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.

Also, every time a person buy/sell an account, he/she is in fact doing a trade with bitcoin, and hence increase its usage.

[koshgel]

Every time an account gets sold and bought on Bitcointalk, Theymos gets another pineapple shoved up his ass in hell.

That's pretty descriptive 

It's a losing battle twister. As long as account selling/buying is condoned, people will have access to more senior accounts.

Report the obvious spammy posts by people in signature campaigns and hope they get the ban hammer. Maybe accounts will stop being bought then.

[poeEDgar]

Every time an account gets sold and bought on Bitcointalk, Theymos gets another pineapple shoved up his ass in hell.

That's pretty descriptive 

It's a losing battle twister. As long as account selling/buying is condoned, people will have access to more senior accounts.

Report the obvious spammy posts by people in signature campaigns and hope they get the ban hammer. Maybe accounts will stop being bought then.

The logic ends here. Whether or not the activity is condoned, it will happen. There is too much incentive. It would simply be driven off the forum.

As long as signature campaigns are tolerated on the forum, I don't really see an issue here.

[theymos]

Personally, I don't think it's encouraged much either, it's frowned upon by much of the community or at least was.

Right. It's also not "officially supported". For example, my account recovery procedures assume that accounts are not sold, so I could be convinced to return accounts to the original owner, and the purchaser is out of luck if I do this. I'm not going to act as a broker or escrow for account sales. (But if I do realize that someone is trying to take back a sold account like this, then I'm not going to do it and I might ban them for wasting my time...)

[monbux]

did you ever think they are sockpuppets?, create new accounts, asking a basic questions, answer with their alts for sig campaign.

Way to much work and sad if anyone is doing this.  I do think there are sockpuppets in some of the sales threads, i view a lot of the new accounts that put a vouch as this.

As far as newbies I suggest anymore they wait till member or so.  Get use to using forum and posting good post's, that are not crap.   But I'm sure most ignore this which is their right to do.

Many people probably do this.  They create a new thread and then start a 10-man conversation all by themselves. 
Buying accounts as a newbie will almost definitely end badly; the newbies really don't know much about bitcoin or the forum rules and didn't take the time to learn them... so pretty soon, they'll get their bought accounts banned.

[Pro Gamers]

I think it was me you were talking op i know your point its unfair to old members like you that spent months or years to have what ever you are in possessions around here now. But i only gave advise to a newbie who was asking a question and not prohibited.

In addition its not really unfair i would say newbies will pay an account before having one if they want to skip the long normal way to be a high rank member and you OP loses nothing with this. You might be true if these accounts sold to a newbies intended to scam or a fraud people rather that to make money from sig campaigns a legal action should be held to address  this issue. But as far as i know why would someone wastes money to get negative trust of being fraud and will end up to the account be wasted and will cause to newbies loses money for it.

If happens i will not suggest again this to newbies, my apology if  i made old members get alarmed by this.

[DaddyMonsi]

maybe they need to be informed first on how/why/when they will get a negative trust and get a few days of jail time before telling them to buy an account because yes it will be waste of coins if they buy a high ranking account and make a posting spree because of the signature campaign and get banned for a few days.

[unholycactus]

Personally, I don't think it's encouraged much either, it's frowned upon by much of the community or at least was.

Right. It's also not "officially supported". For example, my account recovery procedures assume that accounts are not sold, so I could be convinced to return accounts to the original owner, and the purchaser is out of luck if I do this. I'm not going to act as a broker or escrow for account sales. (But if I do realize that someone is trying to take back a sold account like this, then I'm not going to do it and I might ban them for wasting my time...)

If you lurk a bit in the beginners section, posts similar to "you should buy an account and enroll in a sig campaign" in "how can I earn fast bitcoins" topics will almost always come up.
I suppose that's what people mean by "encourage".

@OP, I think it's pretty bad advice considering most newbies don't have the knowledge/insight to have substantial posts and have a main goal of making small amounts of Bitcoin. So I agree with you.

[ndnh]

Personally, I don't think it's encouraged much either, it's frowned upon by much of the community or at least was.

Right. It's also not "officially supported". For example, my account recovery procedures assume that accounts are not sold, so I could be convinced to return accounts to the original owner, and the purchaser is out of luck if I do this. I'm not going to act as a broker or escrow for account sales. (But if I do realize that someone is trying to take back a sold account like this, then I'm not going to do it and I might ban them for wasting my time...)

Well, sorry.

Only meant mods should make it difficult for them to buy/sell accounts here.

[twister]

Are OP talking my post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1180831.msg12427431#msg12427431 ?
Well, as previous posts here said, selling/buying accounts are allowed, and here's a quote from the unofficial list of rules thread:

18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.

Also, every time a person buy/sell an account, he/she is in fact doing a trade with bitcoin, and hence increase its usage.

It wasn't aimed at you or anyone else in particular, I have seen it happen on numerous occasions in that sub-forum and I am aware of that rule but if you focus on the second part of that sentence it clearly states that it is discouraged and telling newbies or others to buy account would be sort of encouraging it and my request was only to let's stop this practice.

I think it was me you were talking op i know your point its unfair to old members like you that spent months or years to have what ever you are in possessions around here now. But i only gave advise to a newbie who was asking a question and not prohibited.

In addition its not really unfair i would say newbies will pay an account before having one if they want to skip the long normal way to be a high rank member and you OP loses nothing with this. You might be true if these accounts sold to a newbies intended to scam or a fraud people rather that to make money from sig campaigns a legal action should be held to address  this issue. But as far as i know why would someone wastes money to get negative trust of being fraud and will end up to the account be wasted and will cause to newbies loses money for it.

If happens i will not suggest again this to newbies, my apology if  i made old members get alarmed by this.

No my original post was just an example to clearly explain my point, it wasn't meant for you or anyone else, I was just asking that maybe we should stop telling it to newbies or anyone else for that matter. There are things in real societies also which are legal and allowed but still avoided as they're morally wrong.

Personally, I don't think it's encouraged much either, it's frowned upon by much of the community or at least was.

Right. It's also not "officially supported". For example, my account recovery procedures assume that accounts are not sold, so I could be convinced to return accounts to the original owner, and the purchaser is out of luck if I do this. I'm not going to act as a broker or escrow for account sales. (But if I do realize that someone is trying to take back a sold account like this, then I'm not going to do it and I might ban them for wasting my time...)

If you lurk a bit in the beginners section, posts similar to "you should buy an account and enroll in a sig campaign" in "how can I earn fast bitcoins" topics will almost always come up.
I suppose that's what people mean by "encourage".

@OP, I think it's pretty bad advice considering most newbies don't have the knowledge/insight to have substantial posts and have a main goal of making small amounts of Bitcoin. So I agree with you.

Exactly, there is no need beat our drums and welcome any newbie with this information.

Every time an account gets sold and bought on Bitcointalk, Theymos gets another pineapple shoved up his ass in hell.

That's pretty descriptive  

It's a losing battle twister. As long as account selling/buying is condoned, people will have access to more senior accounts.

Report the obvious spammy posts by people in signature campaigns and hope they get the ban hammer. Maybe accounts will stop being bought then.

The logic ends here. Whether or not the activity is condoned, it will happen. There is too much incentive. It would simply be driven off the forum.

As long as signature campaigns are tolerated on the forum, I don't really see an issue here.

Would that be bad if the whole selling/buying gets driven off the forum? I think it might stop this to some extent, as theymos said that he restores account assuming that they were not sold and when there is a clear rule stating that account selling/buying is not allowed then people will fear buying accounts even off the forum because they'll know that original owner can restore it back by asking Admins and providing a signed message.