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Author Topic: Should we be trying harder to stop the BTC black market?  (Read 14442 times)
hazek
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October 17, 2012, 09:37:40 PM
 #141

I think the question is "should we be trying harder to promote the BTC black market?" And I think the answer to that question is obviously yes. If you're a Bitcoiner and you're STILL buying your weed with fiat cash, you should be ashamed of yourself. It's socially irresponsible and it sends the wrong message to our children. Let's be the change we want to see in the world and set a better example for our young people.

Hahahahaha +1  Grin

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

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hazek
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October 17, 2012, 09:39:06 PM
 #142

I think the question is "should we be trying harder to promote the BTC black market?" And I think the answer to that question is obviously yes. If you're a Bitcoiner and you're STILL buying your weed with fiat cash, you should be ashamed of yourself. It's socially irresponsible and it sends the wrong message to our children. Let's be the change we want to see in the world and set a better example for our young people.


Buy weed illegally from strangers online instead of locally owned and operated, health inspected, non-profit medicinal discrepancies? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Because you are a statist bully who hasn't got a clue about what a market regulated strictly by it's consumers i.e. a free market is and can do for you.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
BlackHeartFund
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October 17, 2012, 09:58:56 PM
 #143

Quote from: hazek
Because you are a statist bully who hasn't got a clue about what a market regulated strictly by it's consumers i.e. a free market is and can do for you.

I am not a statist in the least, I have just come to the conclusion that the world is slightly more nuanced than maybe I used to think it was. Where has there been a totally free market that has worked, ever in history? There hasn't been one of course, since they don't work and have proven this. It's like, science bro. Arithmetic + history = laissez faire commerce failure.

We don't need powerful states, but we do need people to be organized, educated, and operating within a system of agreed upon (and constantly scrutinized) rules. Any authority that exists over people should have to be constantly justified, but that doesn't mean there are no forms of authority that can be legitimate. There are rules and laws we need in place to keep our societies from breaking down and becoming run by violence and intimidation. Some forms of regulation and authority must exist to keep our society intact. You may disagree, but please don't put words in my mouth.

You consider SR a free market? Not even close. All kinds of regulations there, all kinds of regulations to cash in and cash out. Market forces are effective and important... hazek I really respect you based on most of the posts of yours I've read... but a totally free market being the answer to everything is a pipe dream.

If I've come across as a bully I do sincerely apologize, I realize sometimes I can come across as a bit of a prick. I've been getting about 4 hours of sleep a night for the past couple weeks, not an excuse but I will try to consider my posts more carefully from now on, the last thing I am here to do is offend people, be a bully, or try to get anyone to agree with me!! All I wanted to do here was promote discussion on this topic, and so far I have learned a lot from a number of you.
hazek
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October 17, 2012, 10:06:26 PM
 #144

Quote from: hazek
Because you are a statist bully who hasn't got a clue about what a market regulated strictly by it's consumers i.e. a free market is and can do for you.

I am not a statist in the least, I have just come to the conclusion that the world is slightly more nuanced than maybe I used to think it was. Where has their been a totally free market that has worked, ever in history? There hasn't been one of course, since they don't work and have proven this. It's like, science bro. Arithmetic + history = laissez faire commerce failure.

Imagine it's 200 years ago..:

I am not a slave owner supporter in the least, I have just come to the conclusion that the world is slightly more nuanced than maybe I used to think it was. Where has their been a totally free people in the market that has worked, ever in history? There hasn't been one of course, since they don't work without slavery and have proven this. It's like, science bro. Arithmetic + history = freedom for all people commerce failure.

See the problem with your reasoning, douche?

We don't need powerful states, but we do need people to be organized, educated, and operating within a system of agreed upon (and constantly scrutinized) rules. Any authority that exists over people should have to be constantly justified, but that doesn't mean there are no forms of authority that can be legitimate. There are rules and laws we need in place to keep our societies from breaking down and becoming run by violence and intimidation. Some forms of regulation and authority must exist to keep our society intact. You may disagree, but please don't put words in my mouth.

You consider SR a free market? Not even close. All kinds of regulations there, all kinds of regulations to cash in and cash out. Market forces are effective and important... hazek I really respect you based on most of the posts of yours I've read... but a totally free market being the answer to everything is a pipe dream.

If I've come across as a bully I do sincerely apologize, I realize sometimes I can come across as a bit of a prick. I've been getting about 4 hours of sleep a night for the past couple weeks, not an excuse but I will try to consider my posts more carefully from now on, the last thing I am here to do is offend people, be a bully, or try to get anyone to agree with me!! All I wanted to do here was promote discussion on this topic, and so far I have learned a lot from a number of you.

 Roll Eyes

I was thinking of replying point by point to every fallacy and sophistry your threw together in the rest of your post but honestly, I just don't care enough to waste my time like that.

You don't need to adopt, you can go extinct.  Wink

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
BlackHeartFund
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October 17, 2012, 10:23:38 PM
 #145

You have to be joking. lol slavery is the definition of free market. What prevents chattel slavery? der could it be laws and regulations perhaps?

Thanks, you could not have made my point better for me if you were trying.

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October 17, 2012, 10:25:29 PM
 #146

If you guys love free markets so much I don't understand why NONE of you have packed up and moved to the Randian paradise that is present day Somalia? Total free market, no government, no gun restrictions, it's your dream come true. Yet, you don't go.

It's because grandiose economic theories like yours, and communism... ideologies that promise to solve everything so simply sound good if you think about them for five minutes, but not if you study them for 20.

hazek
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October 17, 2012, 10:26:32 PM
 #147

You have to be joking. lol slavery is the definition of free market. What prevents chattel slavery? der could it be laws and regulations perhaps?

Thanks, you could not have made my point better for me if you were trying.



That's just it, you are clueless as to what a free market is. You wrongly think "free" means "anything goes" when in fact "free" means "regulated strictly by market consumers" and I believe this mistake is the root of all your fallacies and sophistry your consistently display.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
BlackHeartFund
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October 17, 2012, 10:36:28 PM
 #148

Jesus Christ, I have a degree in economics, I understand what a free market is. Guess what? Throughout history, including at this very moment, slavery is a fundamental part of any free market, because unregulated market forces always demand ever cheaper labour. Anywhere there are no laws and the market is only controlled by supply and demand, slavery exists. You can keep up the ad hominem attacks on me all day but your ill informed, half ass arguments are seriously just childish.

I am not trying to convince you, I can tell you are an ideological true believer. By far the most useless type of human being to ever have a conversation with, that's for sure. You've got it all figured out and everyone who thinks differently is stupid, we get it. Have fun with that. It's one notch below schizophrenia.
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October 17, 2012, 10:40:29 PM
 #149

hmm I'm starting to see why this MOD has a yellow ignore button. Think I'll use it. I have a headache from this grade school nonsense.
hazek
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October 17, 2012, 10:40:40 PM
 #150

One last ad hominem, just for the fun of it!

Jesus Christ, I have a degree in economics

And there we have it ladies and gents! He is a status quo economist which explains everything.. It's ok buddy, it's not your fault you were taught everything you know by idiots and hey it's not too late to pick up a few books written by Mises or Rothbard and learn to use reason, logic and empirical evidence when studying economics Wink

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
BlackHeartFund
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October 17, 2012, 10:44:49 PM
 #151

I couldn't be farther from believing in the current neo-liberal dogma they sell us. lmao you just pulled that out of your ass, shocker.

I simply have an education and have formed my opinions based on understanding the science and history of economics. I am not an economist, that was my bachelors. I have a masters in business.

You, on the other hand, are the world's foremost economic expert because you got through two thirds of Atlas Shrugged before dropping out of high school.
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October 17, 2012, 11:35:34 PM
 #152

If you guys love free markets so much I don't understand why NONE of you have packed up and moved to the Randian paradise that is present day Somalia? Total free market, no government, no gun restrictions, it's your dream come true. Yet, you don't go.

I did actually look into this. Turns out it's not exactly true. Somalia is mostly a theocracy, ruled by Islam and sharia law. So no, not a very free market.

Regarding slavery, if you have a degree in economics, I'm sure you can figure out, and maybe explain to the rest of us, why businesses employing slaves would not be able to compete against businesses that pay their employees.

Oh, and BTW, I've read all of Atlas Shrugged (and a few of her other books) instead of one third. What does that say about me?
P.S. I also have a BS in finance/economics, and Masters in Business. Figuring all this free market stuff is a slow and somewhat uncomfortable journey. Took me about a year of hanging out on these forums before I came around.

BlackHeartFund
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October 17, 2012, 11:52:02 PM
 #153

Quote from: Rassah
I did actually look into this. Turns out it's not exactly true. Somalia is mostly a theocracy, ruled by Islam and sharia law. So no, not a very free market.

Parts are being taken over by theocratic warlords recently, but for over ten years there had been no government and a total free market. Islamist gains are recent, since the invasion by Ethiopia. It's almost as if free markets don't work. Of course, the free market paradise we are going to create in America will never become overrun by violent theocrats!

Snooze you lose I guess. Too bad, would have been SWEET for you guys.


hazek
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October 18, 2012, 12:12:31 AM
 #154

Regarding slavery, if you have a degree in economics, I'm sure you can figure out, and maybe explain to the rest of us, why businesses employing slaves would not be able to compete against businesses that pay their employees.

A better question to ask him would be how he thinks it's possible for a market regulated by strictly it's consumers i.e. a free market, the foundation of which is voluntary trade of all goods and services at the same time have a few participants being forced to sell their labor at a low or gratis price i.e. a few participants who are slaves.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
BlackHeartFund
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October 18, 2012, 12:14:32 AM
 #155

Quote from: Rassah
Oh, and BTW, I've read all of Atlas Shrugged (and a few of her other books) instead of one third. What does that say about me?
P.S. I also have a BS in finance/economics, and Masters in Business. Figuring all this free market stuff is a slow and somewhat uncomfortable journey. Took me about a year of hanging out on these forums before I came around.


Hey buddy that is fine, you are entitled to your beliefs. That's what they are though, beliefs. It is impossible for me to "come around" to anything. Either something is proven scientifically or it is not. A lot of unproven, or even disproved theories are not going to turn me into a "believer" because they sound good and have good salespeople on a message board.

Show me the facts brotha, I am a man of science. When it comes to Ayn Randian free market fantasies there are no facts to show, because history and basic economics simply disprove them. There is no science or evidence behind any of it, simply belief, blind faith. Like communism or religion, you guys have to believe and trust in it blindly because it sounds better/simpler than other options you have considered. Like communism and religion, and any blind ideology, there is this need to have all the answers in one tiny little bow, that if only everyone else was smart enough to understand, etc etc. This is faith, belief, blind trust, fanaticism, not science, not economics, and certainly not reality.

You are wading into ideology and fanaticism and that's just not my bag brother, but I am cool with you guys no matter what think.

Ideologues can't be convinced with science, so why am I talking to you, and those who rely on scientific evidence cannot be convinced with ideology, so why are you talking to me? Let's take a step back and get back to focusing on making money. I can't believe hope much time I've wasted on this useless back and forth tonight. I need a beer, or 15.
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October 18, 2012, 12:28:19 AM
 #156

I think the question is "should we be trying harder to promote the BTC black market?" And I think the answer to that question is obviously yes. If you're a Bitcoiner and you're STILL buying your weed with fiat cash, you should be ashamed of yourself. It's socially irresponsible and it sends the wrong message to our children. Let's be the change we want to see in the world and set a better example for our young people.


Buy weed illegally from strangers online instead of locally owned and operated, health inspected, non-profit medicinal discrepancies? Doesn't make much sense to me. I do agree that dispensaries should accept BTC, but all in good time. On SR you have no idea if you are buying from violent gangs, war lords, etc.
Geez, dude, you really know how to step on a man's joke, but fine, if you live in a medical marijuana state and have access to a dispensary that hasn't yet been raided by Obama's goons, more power to you.  For everyone else and for all of your other "Schedule Fun" needs, there's Bitcoin.
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October 18, 2012, 12:34:01 AM
 #157

Quote from: Roger_Murdock
Geez, dude, you really know how to step on a man's joke, but fine, if you live in a medical marijuana state and have access to a dispensary that hasn't yet been raided by Obama's goons, more power to you.  For everyone else and for all of your other "Schedule Fun" needs, there's Bitcoin.

True enough lol

I am in Canada, but dispensaries are in danger here too from the feds.
Atlas
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October 18, 2012, 12:40:37 AM
 #158


I think the question is "should we be trying harder to promote the BTC black market?" And I think the answer to that question is obviously yes. If you're a Bitcoiner and you're STILL buying your weed with fiat cash, you should be ashamed of yourself. It's socially irresponsible and it sends the wrong message to our children. Let's be the change we want to see in the world and set a better example for our young people.


Buy weed illegally from strangers online instead of locally owned and operated, health inspected, non-profit medicinal discrepancies? Doesn't make much sense to me. I do agree that dispensaries should accept BTC, but all in good time. On SR you have no idea if you are buying from violent gangs, war lords, etc.
That's a risk we accept. It is our choice, is it not?
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October 18, 2012, 12:45:10 AM
 #159

Quote from: Rassah
I did actually look into this. Turns out it's not exactly true. Somalia is mostly a theocracy, ruled by Islam and sharia law. So no, not a very free market.

Parts are being taken over by theocratic warlords recently, but for over ten years there had been no government and a total free market. Islamist gains are recent, since the invasion by Ethiopia. It's almost as if free markets don't work. Of course, the free market paradise we are going to create in America will never become overrun by violent theocrats!

Snooze you lose I guess. Too bad, would have been SWEET for you guys.

Please do a search for and read a paper called "Somalia After State Collapse: Chaos or Improvement?" It will probably make you think a bit differently about the place (in short, compare Somalia's state of poverty and economic development to other distressed African nations. It's doing way better despite your claims about free markets leading to chaos).

Rassah
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October 18, 2012, 12:54:13 AM
 #160

Show me the facts brotha, I am a man of science. When it comes to Ayn Randian free market fantasies there are no facts to show, because history and basic economics simply disprove them. There is no science or evidence behind any of it, simply belief, blind faith. Like communism or religion, you guys have to believe and trust in it blindly because it sounds better/simpler than other options you have considered.

Actually, it's quite a hell of a lot more complex. I've found that, with this crap, what might seem obvious doesn't actually work when you think things through logically. But, regardless...
We are both men of business and economics, both with substantial education and understanding of the topic as well, so why don't we discuss this as such? I'll understand whatever terms you throw at me, as I'm sure you will as well.
The free market idea is based on the theory that the power will stay with the customers, not the business owners, and that centralized business power can't exist, not even monopolies, because people will either find a reasonable substitute for whatever is being pushed on them, or businesses will realize that serving their customers is more financially beneficial than extorting them.
You say you like science and evidence. You know evidence in economics is scant at best, and is full of close approximations at most. It's all logical theory. So, please explain to me, using science or logical economic reasoning why you believe a free market society will fail. I would love to discuss this with someone on my level, especially since I'm still convinced that I haven't figured out everything about this.

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