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Author Topic: Should we be trying harder to stop the BTC black market?  (Read 14447 times)
mobodick
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October 17, 2012, 04:56:02 AM
 #101

Black markets still provide tons of benefits, from jobs to goods for those who need them, so I wouldn't consider them inherently bad (the only bad thing about them is that governments don't get their licensing fees and tax revenues, but on the other hand, black markets also don't receive business and security protections from government that legit markets get).
Yes, because those poor child traffickers need a job too!
Governments should stay the hell away from people making a good deal.
Right? Right? Am i right?
 Undecided

To be honest, black markets are not a good thing to generalize...
There is a big difference between someone peddling ABBA tapes on a russian market and someone selling machine guns to criminals.

When I think "black market," I think about what the majority of the black market consists of: businesses that don't report taxable income that manufacture various trinkets, wallets, purses, clothing, etc, businesses that hire illegal aliens or are owned by illegal aliens, businesses started by individuals or families that sell goods or services without first going through the sometimes ridiculous licensing requirements, etc. I've heard that about one third of Italy's economy is black market. That doesn't mean murder, slavery, or child trafficking. It's almost entirely things like counterfeit fashion bags, clothing, wine, and olive oil, and just businesses that operate without reporting taxable income.

Actually, claiming that the black market is just the stuff you guys mentioned is pretty much like saying that Bitcoin is just about buying drugs on Silk Road or getting your money stolen by hackers. The most sensationalist stories will obviously be the loudest ones, but they are rarely even half of the whole picture.
I was just pointing out that the term black market is pretty wide and indeed is used for anything from selling illegal tapes on the market to hirinig illegals to smuggling weapons.
The black market as you describe has its own problems.
You say it creates jobs, but at the same time, by not paying taxes those people destroy jobs. In fact, they destroy a little of everything that is paid with taxes. Roads, education, etc.
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October 17, 2012, 05:00:29 AM
 #102

You say it creates jobs, but at the same time, by not paying taxes those people destroy jobs. In fact, they destroy a little of everything that is paid with taxes. Roads, education, etc.
Perhaps every job that only exists because people are forced to fund it at gunpoint instead of being created by voluntary trade deserves to be destroyed, the sooner the better.
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October 17, 2012, 05:18:55 AM
 #103

You say it creates jobs, but at the same time, by not paying taxes those people destroy jobs. In fact, they destroy a little of everything that is paid with taxes. Roads, education, etc.
Perhaps every job that only exists because people are forced to fund it at gunpoint instead of being created by voluntary trade deserves to be destroyed, the sooner the better.

Many of those jobs deserve to be destroyed regardless of how the funds are obtained.

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mobodick
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October 17, 2012, 05:25:46 AM
 #104

You say it creates jobs, but at the same time, by not paying taxes those people destroy jobs. In fact, they destroy a little of everything that is paid with taxes. Roads, education, etc.
Perhaps every job that only exists because people are forced to fund it at gunpoint instead of being created by voluntary trade deserves to be destroyed, the sooner the better.
That's not how society would survive.
If you had it your way there would be no things like computers because noone would pay for education.
So it's pretty ironic that you write a protest against how society is organized by using some of the newest and most advanced technologies this society has produced.
Think carefully of what you whish destroyed.
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October 17, 2012, 05:35:45 AM
 #105

Black markets still provide tons of benefits, from jobs to goods for those who need them, so I wouldn't consider them inherently bad (the only bad thing about them is that governments don't get their licensing fees and tax revenues, but on the other hand, black markets also don't receive business and security protections from government that legit markets get).
Yes, because those poor child traffickers need a job too!
Governments should stay the hell away from people making a good deal.
Right? Right? Am i right?
 Undecided

To be honest, black markets are not a good thing to generalize...
There is a big difference between someone peddling ABBA tapes on a russian market and someone selling machine guns to criminals.

+1

This
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October 17, 2012, 05:44:25 AM
 #106

You say it creates jobs, but at the same time, by not paying taxes those people destroy jobs. In fact, they destroy a little of everything that is paid with taxes. Roads, education, etc.
Perhaps every job that only exists because people are forced to fund it at gunpoint instead of being created by voluntary trade deserves to be destroyed, the sooner the better.
That's not how society would survive.
If you had it your way there would be no things like computers because noone would pay for education.
So it's pretty ironic that you write a protest against how society is organized by using some of the newest and most advanced technologies this society has produced.
Think carefully of what you whish destroyed.


The assumption being that government is needed for a decent education system. A belief that has been inculcated by... a government run education system.

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mobodick
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October 17, 2012, 06:00:26 AM
 #107

You say it creates jobs, but at the same time, by not paying taxes those people destroy jobs. In fact, they destroy a little of everything that is paid with taxes. Roads, education, etc.
Perhaps every job that only exists because people are forced to fund it at gunpoint instead of being created by voluntary trade deserves to be destroyed, the sooner the better.
That's not how society would survive.
If you had it your way there would be no things like computers because noone would pay for education.
So it's pretty ironic that you write a protest against how society is organized by using some of the newest and most advanced technologies this society has produced.
Think carefully of what you whish destroyed.


The assumption being that government is needed for a decent education system. A belief that has been inculcated by... a government run education system.

Dude, you're apparently clueless as to why out world works.
Education is institutionalized by the government because otherwise most people would have never gotten an education.
Look at how things were before we had an educational system and look at countries where the educational system is not effective.
You can see a big negative economic impact.
The point of organizing it centrally is that otherwise you would never get to a point where most people were educated enough to support the whole economy.
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October 17, 2012, 06:45:10 AM
 #108

Private schools and homeschooling don't exist... /waveshand

BlackHeartFund
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October 17, 2012, 07:19:07 AM
 #109

You say it creates jobs, but at the same time, by not paying taxes those people destroy jobs. In fact, they destroy a little of everything that is paid with taxes. Roads, education, etc.
Perhaps every job that only exists because people are forced to fund it at gunpoint instead of being created by voluntary trade deserves to be destroyed, the sooner the better.
That's not how society would survive.
If you had it your way there would be no things like computers because noone would pay for education.
So it's pretty ironic that you write a protest against how society is organized by using some of the newest and most advanced technologies this society has produced.
Think carefully of what you whish destroyed.


The assumption being that government is needed for a decent education system. A belief that has been inculcated by... a government run education system.

Dude, you're apparently clueless as to why out world works.
Education is institutionalized by the government because otherwise most people would have never gotten an education.
Look at how things were before we had an educational system and look at countries where the educational system is not effective.
You can see a big negative economic impact.
The point of organizing it centrally is that otherwise you would never get to a point where most people were educated enough to support the whole economy.



Again +1


Private schools and homeschooling don't exist... /waveshand

Home schooling? lol yes let's have high school dropouts teaching kids that Jesus controls the climate and economy, what could go wrong? We don't need young people to learn peer-reviewed science, we need them to learn whatever random bullshit their parents believe. Fuck math.

Private schools kick ass! Look at all the world's great education systems that work without public education... oh right, there are none. New Orleans is doing great spending 5X more per student to have them get 1/3 the education! Yay to making profit at the expense of the education of the next generation of children!!! We'll just count on China and India to train enough engineers and scientists... I guess us western societies should take after Louisiana and start producing... preachers and beggars I guess? Great plan. Maybe the Tim Tebow Corporation will hire all these kids with bullshit private HS degrees... but I doubt it.  

Move to Somalia if you want absolutely no organized society. Also stop reading Ayn Rand, that is not serious.
TheButterZone
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October 17, 2012, 09:01:46 AM
 #110

Private schools and homeschooling don't exist... /waveshand

Home schooling? lol yes let's have high school dropouts teaching kids that Jesus controls the climate and economy, what could go wrong? We don't need young people to learn peer-reviewed science, we need them to learn whatever random bullshit their parents believe. Fuck math.

Private schools kick ass! Look at all the world's great education systems that work without public education... oh right, there are none. New Orleans is doing great spending 5X more per student to have them get 1/3 the education! Yay to making profit at the expense of the education of the next generation of children!!! We'll just count on China and India to train enough engineers and scientists... I guess us western societies should take after Louisiana and start producing... preachers and beggars I guess? Great plan. Maybe the Tim Tebow Corporation will hire all these kids with bullshit private HS degrees... but I doubt it.  

Move to Somalia if you want absolutely no organized society. Also stop reading Ayn Rand, that is not serious.

Since you've set up all those statist straw men that bear no resemblance to reality, imagine them burnt down, and all your BTC eliminated, while you're at it. Orwell loves you!

skydust
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October 17, 2012, 09:07:42 AM
 #111

I disagree. BTC is just a currency, it's like a Toyota is just a car. Toyota isn't held responsible when some crook robs a bank with their car, and bitcoins are just a currency.
i agree with your opinion.
BlackHeartFund
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October 17, 2012, 10:55:19 AM
 #112

Private schools and homeschooling don't exist... /waveshand

Home schooling? lol yes let's have high school dropouts teaching kids that Jesus controls the climate and economy, what could go wrong? We don't need young people to learn peer-reviewed science, we need them to learn whatever random bullshit their parents believe. Fuck math.

Private schools kick ass! Look at all the world's great education systems that work without public education... oh right, there are none. New Orleans is doing great spending 5X more per student to have them get 1/3 the education! Yay to making profit at the expense of the education of the next generation of children!!! We'll just count on China and India to train enough engineers and scientists... I guess us western societies should take after Louisiana and start producing... preachers and beggars I guess? Great plan. Maybe the Tim Tebow Corporation will hire all these kids with bullshit private HS degrees... but I doubt it.  

Move to Somalia if you want absolutely no organized society. Also stop reading Ayn Rand, that is not serious.

Since you've set up all those statist straw men that bear no resemblance to reality, imagine them burnt down, and all your BTC eliminated, while you're at it. Orwell loves you!


How old are you? At some point you will realize that we all live in a society who's structures can only change slightly in our lifetimes. I know kids think that the global anarchist revolution in three weeks away, but it isn't. For the rest of our lives we will be living under the government structures we created, and the best we can do is liberalize them as much as possible, take as much power away from the centralized elite as possible. BTC is a great tool to democratize finance, but if you think you are ever going to be totally free from the kinds of limits out systems put on us, you are living in a dream land. Find a desert island perhaps, or move to Somalia.

Dreamers are great, we need ya, but keep learning. Once you get further in (public) university you will read more than just 1984 and a third of Atlas Shrugged, and hopefully at some point you'll realize that the world is a lot more complex, and solutions are not as simple as you think.

Thankfully there are reasonable adults who are and will continue to advance BTC within our current legal and political systems.
hashman
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October 17, 2012, 11:31:13 AM
 #113

You say it creates jobs, but at the same time, by not paying taxes those people destroy jobs. In fact, they destroy a little of everything that is paid with taxes. Roads, education, etc.
Perhaps every job that only exists because people are forced to fund it at gunpoint instead of being created by voluntary trade deserves to be destroyed, the sooner the better.
That's not how society would survive.
If you had it your way there would be no things like computers because noone would pay for education.
So it's pretty ironic that you write a protest against how society is organized by using some of the newest and most advanced technologies this society has produced.
Think carefully of what you whish destroyed.


The assumption being that government is needed for a decent education system. A belief that has been inculcated by... a government run education system.

Dude, you're apparently clueless as to why out world works.
Education is institutionalized by the government because otherwise most people would have never gotten an education.
Look at how things were before we had an educational system and look at countries where the educational system is not effective.
You can see a big negative economic impact.
The point of organizing it centrally is that otherwise you would never get to a point where most people were educated enough to support the whole economy.


Guess what, the US department of education opened shop in 1980. 
Are you saying that the quality of education has increased since then? 

Yes, you need some centralized system to pay your teachers and maintain your buildings, equipment, etc. 
No, it doesn't have to be run from 500 miles away. 




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October 17, 2012, 12:17:33 PM
 #114


Guess what, the US department of education opened shop in 1980.  
Are you saying that the quality of education has increased since then?  

Yes, you need some centralized system to pay your teachers and maintain your buildings, equipment, etc.  
No, it doesn't have to be run from 500 miles away.  

Here here!  Ron Paul 2012!

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
BlackHeartFund
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October 17, 2012, 12:19:49 PM
 #115

Quote from: hashman
Guess what, the US department of education opened shop in 1980. 
Are you saying that the quality of education has increased since then? 

I have not studied the US education system and am totally not qualified to answer that question. Obviously education in all developed countries has improved greatly over the past century as education became universal and mandatory.



Quote from: hashman
Yes, you need some centralized system to pay your teachers and maintain your buildings, equipment, etc. 
No, it doesn't have to be run from 500 miles away. 

I agree completely.
BlackHeartFund
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October 17, 2012, 01:29:12 PM
 #116

Quote from: stevegee58
Here here!  Ron Paul 2012!


I'm sorry but despite being one of the only honest politicians I've ever come across... and having SOME good economic and social ideas... certainly he's amazing on war and military issues... but overall Ron Paul is a lunatic. He would roll the US back to 1880s labour standards, and give corporations total immunity in terms of forcing all the externalities on the general public. He wants no social organizing, which is really the exact opposite of true anarchism. Him and the new so called "Libertarian Parties" popping up over the past few decades are completely full of shit and have totally bastardized the term. They are essentially far right wing anarcho-capitalists who want to experiment with a totally unregulated market that is designed and guaranteed to fail horribly. Let everyone fend for themselves with no health care or pensions while the profits of the elite skyrocket, and more people become low income wage slaves until the day they die.

His moron son is basically just a tea party asshole who will never have the courage to follow in his father's very honourable footsteps in voting against republican wars and massive debt increasing budgets (like the Paul Ryan bill).

Ron Paul is such a libertarian that he wants to have a federal or state police officer supervising every time a vagina is examined in a doctor's office, to enforce a ban on abortion. Yay individual freedom... for those of us with dicks.
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October 17, 2012, 02:28:30 PM
 #117

Look at how things were before we had an educational system and look at countries where the educational system is not effective.


I suggest you look at how things were before we had an educational system. Things were not as desolate as you might think.

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mobodick
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October 17, 2012, 02:44:16 PM
 #118

Look at how things were before we had an educational system and look at countries where the educational system is not effective.


I suggest you look at how things were before we had an educational system. Things were not as desolate as you might think.
I have, and education was mostly for the elite in those days.
Seriously dude, your computer would not have existed if the world didn't take an initiative to educate the masses.
stevegee58
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October 17, 2012, 02:48:29 PM
 #119

Quote from: stevegee58
Here here!  Ron Paul 2012!
I'm sorry but...

Never apologize for your opinions.

Look at how things were before we had an educational system and look at countries where the educational system is not effective.


I suggest you look at how things were before we had an educational system. Things were not as desolate as you might think.

Not sure what you mean by "education system".  When the pilgrims stepped off the Mayflower there was an education system.  It was called a "one-room schoolhouse" or even "homeschooling".  Either one is completely legitimate.

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
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October 17, 2012, 02:50:25 PM
 #120

Home schooling? lol yes let's have high school dropouts teaching kids that Jesus controls the climate and economy, what could go wrong? We don't need young people to learn peer-reviewed science, we need them to learn whatever random bullshit their parents believe. Fuck math.

Sweet. Your demonstration of complete ignorance of the subject means I can feel free to disregard any more you have to say on the matter.

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