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Author Topic: Blackjack Question  (Read 1819 times)
TriggerX
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September 21, 2015, 03:36:58 AM
 #1

I was watching this video on youtube and it brought up a good point. Say you are gambling in a Las Vegas casino. The odds on most game a placed so that the odds of you winning are slightly lower than the house.

So, for example in roulette. If you roll a 36 on the first turn, it does not affect your second roll. Just because you got a 36 first turn doesn't make your odds lower to get a 36 on the second turn, it's the same.

This is the same for the game craps. If you roll a 7 on a roll, it has no affect on the outcome of the second roll.

But how about Blackjack?

You can count the cards that have appeared from the other players and the house and you can use that to your advantage on whether to bet or not.

Thoughts?
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September 21, 2015, 03:40:10 AM
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That is why people count cards. If you know what cards have been dealt, you know what cards are left in the shoe and can adjust your bet size and/or strategy appropriately.

It is not as easy as you would think, there is lots to remember, most casinos will burn the first card (and another on the dealer change), they do not go all the way through the shoe so you have less time to take advantage of the information if you can remember it, most casinos can kick you out if they feel like it, and you being able to beat them at blackjack is one of their favorite reasons.

Edit: read "bringing down the house" or watch the movie 21 for a slightly fictionalized version of the MIT blackjack team's adventures in Vegas.

Edit 2: don't try this online because most online casinos reshuffle the entire 6/8 deck shoe after every hand because they can.

TriggerX
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September 21, 2015, 03:51:33 AM
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That is why people count cards. If you know what cards have been dealt, you know what cards are left in the shoe and can adjust your bet size and/or strategy appropriately.

It is not as easy as you would think, there is lots to remember, most casinos will burn the first card (and another on the dealer change), they do not go all the way through the shoe so you have less time to take advantage of the information if you can remember it, most casinos can kick you out if they feel like it, and you being able to beat them at blackjack is one of their favorite reasons.

Edit: read "bringing down the house" or watch the movie 21 for a slightly fictionalized version of the MIT blackjack team's adventures in Vegas.

Edit 2: don't try this online because most online casinos reshuffle the entire 6/8 deck shoe after every hand because they can.

Hmm I was wondering why you couldn't do it online. I really don't find any part of this as cheating as it's just based on your memory and your own mathematics.

Also I watched the Ocean's Trilogy which made me watch Bringing Down the House a couple of hours ago . Grin
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September 21, 2015, 03:55:56 AM
 #4

it's not cheating, but casinos do not have to accept your bet if they don't want to, and they won't want to if they know that you can count cards successfully.

You can try online but it just won't work. They reshuffle after every hand so the amount of information you can pick up on one hand is nowhere near enough to impact your decision making on that hand, and it can't impact your bet size because you have to make your bet before you see any cards.

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September 21, 2015, 04:02:56 AM
 #5

it's not cheating, but casinos do not have to accept your bet if they don't want to, and they won't want to if they know that you can count cards successfully.

You can try online but it just won't work. They reshuffle after every hand so the amount of information you can pick up on one hand is nowhere near enough to impact your decision making on that hand, and it can't impact your bet size because you have to make your bet before you see any cards.

Really? I thought if you just followed the rules, they wouldn't have a reason to kick you.

Also maybe it's not dependent on your bet size. It could just be letting you know when you should hit or stay.
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September 21, 2015, 04:23:53 AM
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it's not cheating, but casinos do not have to accept your bet if they don't want to, and they won't want to if they know that you can count cards successfully.

You can try online but it just won't work. They reshuffle after every hand so the amount of information you can pick up on one hand is nowhere near enough to impact your decision making on that hand, and it can't impact your bet size because you have to make your bet before you see any cards.

Really? I thought if you just followed the rules, they wouldn't have a reason to kick you.

Also maybe it's not dependent on your bet size. It could just be letting you know when you should hit or stay.

Card counting is usually done in teams and I don't think there is a set rule that prevents it but it is frowned upon by the Floor Casinos and if they found you counting cards then they ban you from playing there forever, this is the official punishment, others unofficial punishments might include other things. It gives players unfair advantage and which is why it is considered cheating and hence Casinos don't allow card counters.

You can give it a shot in online casinos but it won't work, if it did a lot of people would have done it by now and had gotten rich.

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September 21, 2015, 04:25:56 AM
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How could counting cards work if most casinos use 8 deck shoes.  counting cards is a thing of the past.
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September 21, 2015, 04:31:28 AM
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How could counting cards work if most casinos use 8 deck shoes.  counting cards is a thing of the past.

Agreed. That method was like used in Vegas decades ago. It should be flawed and the method won't work today because of the decks used by casinos.

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September 21, 2015, 04:32:08 AM
 #9

How could counting cards work if most casinos use 8 deck shoes.  counting cards is a thing of the past.

It would be simple if for instance the cards weren't shuffled every hand which is what most sites do and you don't know if they're using 6 or 8 packs of cards.
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September 21, 2015, 04:37:40 AM
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How could counting cards work if most casinos use 8 deck shoes.  counting cards is a thing of the past.

It would be simple if for instance the cards weren't shuffled every hand which is what most sites do and you don't know if they're using 6 or 8 packs of cards.
of course for online blackjack you dont have any clue what is going on unless its a live online game.

but as far as casinos its seems it would be impossible.   even if they weren't always shuffled.  I mean counting 1 deck seems hard enough and must be done with a group now imagine 8 decks.



But I mean maybe some one out there is able to but would seem pretty crazy to think they could keep it up.
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September 21, 2015, 04:39:46 AM
 #11

How could counting cards work if most casinos use 8 deck shoes.  counting cards is a thing of the past.

It would be simple if for instance the cards weren't shuffled every hand which is what most sites do and you don't know if they're using 6 or 8 packs of cards.
of course for online blackjack you dont have any clue what is going on unless its a live online game.

but as far as casinos its seems it would be impossible.   even if they weren't always shuffled.  I mean counting 1 deck seems hard enough and must be done with a group now imagine 8 decks.



But I mean maybe some one out there is able to but would seem pretty crazy to think they could keep it up.

Oh I didn't know they use 6-8 packs of different cards. If they did, wouldn't the same card have a chance of appearing more than once?
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September 21, 2015, 04:42:52 AM
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How could counting cards work if most casinos use 8 deck shoes.  counting cards is a thing of the past.

It would be simple if for instance the cards weren't shuffled every hand which is what most sites do and you don't know if they're using 6 or 8 packs of cards.
of course for online blackjack you dont have any clue what is going on unless its a live online game.

but as far as casinos its seems it would be impossible.   even if they weren't always shuffled.  I mean counting 1 deck seems hard enough and must be done with a group now imagine 8 decks.



But I mean maybe some one out there is able to but would seem pretty crazy to think they could keep it up.


Oh I didn't know they use 6-8 packs of different cards. If they did, wouldn't the same card have a chance of appearing more than once?

Yes you mean picture cards ? Of course that's why you sometimes get a good run of cards for dealers and players.
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September 21, 2015, 04:51:12 AM
 #13

How could counting cards work if most casinos use 8 deck shoes.  counting cards is a thing of the past.

It would be simple if for instance the cards weren't shuffled every hand which is what most sites do and you don't know if they're using 6 or 8 packs of cards.
of course for online blackjack you dont have any clue what is going on unless its a live online game.

but as far as casinos its seems it would be impossible.   even if they weren't always shuffled.  I mean counting 1 deck seems hard enough and must be done with a group now imagine 8 decks.



But I mean maybe some one out there is able to but would seem pretty crazy to think they could keep it up.


Oh I didn't know they use 6-8 packs of different cards. If they did, wouldn't the same card have a chance of appearing more than once?

Yes you mean picture cards ? Of course that's why you sometimes get a good run of cards for dealers and players.

I mean if you're playing with more than one deck, wouldn't the chance of getting 9 of hearts and 9 of hearts again be possible?
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September 21, 2015, 04:58:56 AM
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I mean if you're playing with more than one deck, wouldn't the chance of getting 9 of hearts and 9 of hearts again be possible?

Yes, that's why they normally use more than one deck. Otherwise if you got a 9 of hearts, you know the chance of another card also being a 9 was 25% reduced. Actually under a lot of common rule variations if casinos only used a single deck (even reshuffling on each hand) it would be possible to play +EV. But with multiple decks, the information gain you get from seeing each card becomes absolutely tiny.

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September 21, 2015, 05:33:29 AM
 #15

Now biggest casinos use reshuffle machine every hand, so counting cards in this kind of casinos won't work anymore, some gurus made enough money from counting cards many years ago, but they can't do it now, unless they play in casinos don't reshuffle every hand.

And online BJ reshuffles every hand too, it is harder to beat the house now, although BJ has lowest house edge compared to other games, what we need to win is luck, and follow strategy book, you can find it on wizardofodds.com  Wink
TriggerX
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September 21, 2015, 06:46:59 AM
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Now biggest casinos use reshuffle machine every hand, so counting cards in this kind of casinos won't work anymore, some gurus made enough money from counting cards many years ago, but they can't do it now, unless they play in casinos don't reshuffle every hand.

And online BJ reshuffles every hand too, it is harder to beat the house now, although BJ has lowest house edge compared to other games, what we need to win is luck, and follow strategy book, you can find it on wizardofodds.com  Wink

Thanks! Now with all the information, out of all possible bitcoin casino games, which one would have the highest chance of winning? (Even if chances are winning are just a slim bit higher) Would it be Blackjack?
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September 21, 2015, 06:53:23 AM
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Now biggest casinos use reshuffle machine every hand, so counting cards in this kind of casinos won't work anymore, some gurus made enough money from counting cards many years ago, but they can't do it now, unless they play in casinos don't reshuffle every hand.

And online BJ reshuffles every hand too, it is harder to beat the house now, although BJ has lowest house edge compared to other games, what we need to win is luck, and follow strategy book, you can find it on wizardofodds.com  Wink

Thanks! Now with all the information, out of all possible bitcoin casino games, which one would have the highest chance of winning? (Even if chances are winning are just a slim bit higher) Would it be Blackjack?

Single deck BJ, I played over 1k hands on betsoft single hand BJ, I am still up to 3 btc like that, should be fair game, or I can't win so much. The house edge should be less than 0.4%
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September 21, 2015, 07:20:12 AM
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Now biggest casinos use reshuffle machine every hand, so counting cards in this kind of casinos won't work anymore, some gurus made enough money from counting cards many years ago, but they can't do it now, unless they play in casinos don't reshuffle every hand.

And online BJ reshuffles every hand too, it is harder to beat the house now, although BJ has lowest house edge compared to other games, what we need to win is luck, and follow strategy book, you can find it on wizardofodds.com  Wink

Thanks! Now with all the information, out of all possible bitcoin casino games, which one would have the highest chance of winning? (Even if chances are winning are just a slim bit higher) Would it be Blackjack?

Single deck BJ, I played over 1k hands on betsoft single hand BJ, I am still up to 3 btc like that, should be fair game, or I can't win so much. The house edge should be less than 0.4%

Nice! let me look around the website. Thanks for all your help. If there is a referral link, you can PM that to me. Also do you have any strategies you go with? Or do you just use your gut feeling?
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September 21, 2015, 12:36:29 PM
 #19

it's not cheating, but casinos do not have to accept your bet if they don't want to, and they won't want to if they know that you can count cards successfully.

You can try online but it just won't work. They reshuffle after every hand so the amount of information you can pick up on one hand is nowhere near enough to impact your decision making on that hand, and it can't impact your bet size because you have to make your bet before you see any cards.

Really? I thought if you just followed the rules, they wouldn't have a reason to kick you.

Also maybe it's not dependent on your bet size. It could just be letting you know when you should hit or stay.

Their reason is that they are losing. You don't need to break a rule to get kicked out. They can't kick you out because you are in a protected class, but they can kick you out for ANY other reason, including "they don't like you."

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September 21, 2015, 01:38:44 PM
 #20

it's not cheating, but casinos do not have to accept your bet if they don't want to, and they won't want to if they know that you can count cards successfully.

You can try online but it just won't work. They reshuffle after every hand so the amount of information you can pick up on one hand is nowhere near enough to impact your decision making on that hand, and it can't impact your bet size because you have to make your bet before you see any cards.

Really? I thought if you just followed the rules, they wouldn't have a reason to kick you.

Also maybe it's not dependent on your bet size. It could just be letting you know when you should hit or stay.

Their reason is that they are losing. You don't need to break a rule to get kicked out. They can't kick you out because you are in a protected class, but they can kick you out for ANY other reason, including "they don't like you."

Yep, like from every bar and shop Smiley that's their property and they can invite there and kick out everyone who they like .. or not.

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