Is ASIC's a SCAM?

[BitcoinOxygen]

i have heard many people saying that Butterfly Lab and the other manufactures who make ASIC's is a SCAM

and this could be true because there is no proof than even ASIC exist and no one has even has a picture of a ASIC

what you you all say about ASIC's?

[Gatorhex]

If I had to bet on anyone delivering ASIC it would be BFL as they are way ahead of anyone else on delivering bitcoin consumer products.

They've got the most convincing photos and should have machine capacity for 900 units per day.

That should burn through pre-orders quickly, so I'm just gonna sit tight and wait for the thing to be in stock.

[benco]

If I had to bet on anyone delivering ASIC it would be BFL as they are way ahead of anyone else on delivering bitcoin consumer products.

They've got the most convincing photos and should have machine capacity for 900 units per day.

That should burn through pre-orders quickly, so I'm just gonna sit tight and wait for the thing to be in stock.

Joke of the week

[Gatorhex]

Joke of the week

BLF's own words..

"if needed, weekends and 24 hour shifts can keep the production line moving to satisfy quick delivery of customer orders. To this end we've purchased an entire SMT assembly suite and hired a capable team to run it. These units are currently being installed in our new facility."

"BFL_Office - 10-05-2012, 09:47 AM
The setup has a conservative capacity of 300 units per 8 hour shift or 900 units in a 24 hour day."

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content.php/120-BFL-Invests-in-Assembly-Equipment

[Frequency]

Joke of the week

BLF's own words..

"if needed, weekends and 24 hour shifts can keep the production line moving to satisfy quick delivery of customer orders. To this end we've purchased an entire SMT assembly suite and hired a capable team to run it. These units are currently being installed in our new facility."

"BFL_Office - 10-05-2012, 09:47 AM
The setup has a conservative capacity of 300 units per 8 hour shift or 900 units in a 24 hour day."

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content.php/120-BFL-Invests-in-Assembly-Equipment

This is really a joke...this smells really like an set you up with some cheap ass pics... no proof again
To simpel questions you still get maybe,s and don,t worries, wtf

i have heard many people saying that Butterfly Lab and the other manufactures who make ASIC's is a SCAM

and this could be true because there is no proof than even ASIC exist and no one has even has a picture of a ASIC

what you you all say about ASIC's?

well it is end of oktober thats a fact,
in 5 weeks its halving day thats is a fact to,
then a week later ASIC would be out (Dec. Avalon, BFL ect.) this is a fairytale..

.just believe whatever u want.. a SCAM no..but a very bad customer service promising to much crap hell YES...

But if it is a scam i,d be happy not pre-orderd any device untill they ar out there it,s all AIR to me....

[Gatorhex]

There's no guarantee it's not going to be a scam,

just saying they have the most convincing story, $10m pre-orders (enough to fund an ASIC & equipment), so they seem most likely to get there first.

If they can knock out 900 units a day, there's no need to risk money on a pre-order, wait for it to be in stock, use paypal, if it don't arrive in 30 days put in a chargeback (you cannot chargeback pre-orders!).

[paraipan]

Hope not 

[BitcoinOxygen]

why can't any ASIC company even show a under development ASIC picture's

[Meizirkki]

I'm not very familiar with ASIC's at all, and maybe for that exact reason I find them suspicious. Is it even physically possible with todays technology to do 4.5GH/s with only 5W power consumption?

Just wondering. I'm not mining.

[greyhawk]

They've got the most convincing photos

What photos?

[emuLOAD]

I'm not very familiar with ASIC's at all, and maybe for that exact reason I find them suspicious. Is it even physically possible with todays technology to do 4.5GH/s with only 5W power consumption?

Just wondering. I'm not mining.

That's honestly the _least_ of my worries. The whole point of an ASIC is that it's designed exclusively with one task in mind, and when all is said and done it's a fairly "simple" task that simply needs to be done a shedload of times in parallel. With good design and technology, I don't see why that kind of power consumption would seem so low... we really can't compare to CPU and GPU power consumptions... those are both "generic" chips.


BFL may be a scam, everything is possible. I think there is a good 50% chance they actually are honest and will deliver. Whether that's enough to risk investing in them, and how much to invest, is up to you.

[Gatorhex]

What photos?

The assembly/factory
http://www.butterflylabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/IMG_3122.jpg

The new oven they said they were buying being delivered
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75&d=1350188957

The design images
http://www.facebook.com/ButterflyLabs/photos_stream
http://codinginmysleep.com/first-look-at-bfls-asic-hardware/

They make stuff already and come all the way to London Bitcoin Conference 2012 to show their wares (That's BFL_Josh)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6fuEKqGSsQ

[sippsnapp]

There's no guarantee it's not going to be a scam,

just saying they have the most convincing story, $10m pre-orders (enough to fund an ASIC & equipment), so they seem most likely to get there first.

If they can knock out 900 units a day, there's no need to risk money on a pre-order, wait for it to be in stock, use paypal, if it don't arrive in 30 days put in a chargeback (you cannot chargeback pre-orders!).

This++
, i mean srsly, why bother with preorder and the risk that comes with it to just to mine a little earlier?? Its nonsense in my opinion.

Then this, thre is no reputation yet as i get it...

As buffet sayd about reputation:

It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently.
Warren Buffett

or

Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.
Warren Buffett

[ElectricMucus]

Entirely possible, but somewhat uncertain.

The thing is, there are pictures of their BFL singles from several members in this forum, there is a video from the internals of a mini rig, and so on.
So that means that either if it were a scam, that they actually produced the singles and mini rigs and shipped them, or that plenty of people are in on it. One third option would be that the actual products do not in fact mine but only communicate the mining software option to a gpu farm somewhere.

Still, I don't really think it's that likely to be a scam, but that wouldn't make me wanna pre-order their products. Because I view it as almost certain that if they ship it will be late on schedule and wouldn't meet the specs.


The only thing certain is: I don't like how BFL operates. They advertised singles to be custom hardware and are said to have delivered FPGAs.  

[greyhawk]

What photos?

The assembly/factory
http://www.butterflylabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/IMG_3122.jpg

The new oven they said they were buying being delivered
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75&d=1350188957

The design images
http://www.facebook.com/ButterflyLabs/photos_stream
http://codinginmysleep.com/first-look-at-bfls-asic-hardware/

They make stuff already and come all the way to London Bitcoin Conference 2012 to show their wares (That's BFL_Josh)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6fuEKqGSsQ

Picture 1 shows off building FPGA rigs

Picture 2 shows off generic equipment that could be used to build anything like FPGAs for example

Pictureset 3 are not pictures but design renders. Badly done design renders.

Video 1 shows off Josh showing off a FPGA.

How are these photos of ASICs again, which would be kinda relevant in a thread about ASICS

[Gatorhex]

How are these photos of ASICs again, which would be kinda relevant in a thread about ASICS

I never said they were photos of ASICs,
you won't have photos of ASICs until they are built, will you,
I was talking "most convincing photos" of a business that could deliver ASICs.

[greyhawk]

How are these photos of ASICs again, which would be kinda relevant in a thread about ASICS

I never said they were photos of ASICs, you won't have photos of ASICs until they are built, will you,
I was talking "most convincing photos" of a business that could deliver ASICs.

Seeing as how they "deliver" in... what was it?... 10 days?... you'd kinda expect they'd at least have a mock up prototype to photograph by now. Hell, they could paint an Apple TV black, lay a Jalapeno on the "Jalapeno" and stick circuitry from a TV remote and some christmas lights inside and it would still be more convincing than what they have now.

[Meizirkki]

I'm not very familiar with ASIC's at all, and maybe for that exact reason I find them suspicious. Is it even physically possible with todays technology to do 4.5GH/s with only 5W power consumption?

That's honestly the _least_ of my worries. The whole point of an ASIC is that it's designed exclusively with one task in mind, and when all is said and done it's a fairly "simple" task that simply needs to be done a shedload of times in parallel. With good design and technology, I don't see why that kind of power consumption would seem so low...

I do know the point of ASIC's and why they will be better than current hardware. Here's a better way to put my words: "I'm not familiar with SHA256 and IC desing". Without knowing how exactly simple the operations are and which kind of circuit is needed, I doubt it is physically possible with todays technology to achieve the promised efficiency. Unless you know that it's possible, it should be kind of a big worry. If you do know, please share.

I hope the provided data is accurate. It's time to make the whole Bitcoin network more efficient.

[Gatorhex]

Seeing as how they "deliver" in... what was it?... 10 days?... you'd kinda expect they'd at least have a mock up prototype to photograph by now. Hell, they could paint an Apple TV black, lay a Jalapeno on the "Jalapeno" and stick circuitry from a TV remote and some christmas lights inside and it would still be more convincing than what they have now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you prototype an ASIC by building it as an FPGA first?(done) Then you find $millions in funding? (done)
Just saying BFL are more convincing on ASIC than their competition, what have they shown? Not even design images.
You risk little by waiting for it to come into stock, the pre-order will clear pretty fast if their 900 units a day quote on new equipment is true.

[farlack]

Selling a product, that will make you 10x the profit in 2 weeks, is a scam imho.




Compare google selling you their adwords licensing for $100,000 dollars a day royalties, but its making $500,000 a day profit.


Its bullshit.