Overleveraged buffoon creates biggest Mexican standoff in Altcoin history

[r0ach]

Someone asked that I make a new topic on this subject, so here it is.  The back story on this event is here from a post yesterday:

I think you're about to see the largest margin call in Poloniex history.  

Some guy named Cagara opened a 100btc short on Bitshares around 0.00002700 sometime around Sept 23rd.  He thought the price was going to go down to 0.00002200 but it didn't, the price went to 2450 or so then recovered to 2700 again while his short is still open.  

Now this guy has to buy 100 BTC worth straight off the sell wall or wait for the price to go higher and get margin called.  Depending if he manually covers his short or waits to get margin called, the price is immediately going to go somewhere between 2900-3100 relatively soon.

There's also nobody selling for him to cover his short either because a double sell off wave just happened.  He keeps trying to dump into buy support to stop the rise just digging himself deeper in the hole:

Now the progression of the story from yesterday is, the price has increased even higher to 2780ish now and this guy has decided instead of covering his failed short and buying 100btc worth of coins straight off the wall, he has decided to double down and place 11 btc sell walls spaced out on the sell wall to try and prevent it from going higher:




Since BTS 2.0 is about to release in 15 days, the price will likely continue to increase towards that date and this guy will be forced to cover an even bigger short, buying a huge number of coins straight off the sell wall that will probably immediately move the market 400-500 satoshi upwards:



Why am I posting this?  Because the guy is a huge ass and types things like "you're all idiots investing in this stuff, I'm only here to short to make money".  Now that his position is revealed, I can't wait for this guy to lose money and have others profit from the information at the same time.

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[Come-from-Beyond]

Since BTS 2.0 is about to release in 15 days, the price will likely continue to increase towards that date...

Unless the market has already reacted to the news.

[HalFinneysBrain]

Its indeed large but certainly not the largest.

Someone got a 250 btc margin call in ETH a couple weeks back.

[r0ach]

Since BTS 2.0 is about to release in 15 days, the price will likely continue to increase towards that date...

Unless the market has already reacted to the news.

There's a group of 8 or so Vietnamese in a chat room with 500 btc float and a couple bots that are trying to increase the price right now, as well as several long term holders of BTS separately doing their own thing, and a few other parties on top of that.  There's many different groups working against him already and I'm 90% sure it will go over 3500 by Oct 13 and blow this short wide open, forcing it to go even higher when he has to buy off the wall.

[Come-from-Beyond]

There's a group of 8 or so Vietnamese in a chat room with 500 btc float and a couple bots that are trying to increase the price right now, as well as several long term holders of BTS separately doing their own thing, and a few other parties on top of that.  There's many different groups working against him already and I'm 90% sure it will go over 3500 by Oct 13 and blow this short wide open, forcing it to go even higher when he has to buy off the wall.

If you are an experienced trader then you know that if you see someone saying that the price will go up, then he may want to sell, if he is saying that the price will go down, then he may want to buy...

[r0ach]

If you are an experienced trader then you know that if you see someone saying that the price will go up, then he may want to sell, if he is saying that the price will go down, then he may want to buy...

Except I already know where people's positions are so I don't have to guess.

[tat123]

If you are an experienced trader then you know that if you see someone saying that the price will go up, then he may want to sell, if he is saying that the price will go down, then he may want to buy...

Except I already know where people's positions are so I don't have to guess.

Bingo!

[YoyodyneSystems]

Since BTS 2.0 is about to release in 15 days, the price will likely continue to increase towards that date...

Unless the market has already reacted to the news.

It is still reacting. Their reaction is to keep filling in the "BUY BTS" fields with numbers like 177, 50,000, 100,000, and 238,373 on Polo and pressing enter. Almost obsessively so.
And it hasn't seemed to slow down. I think this should be studied.

[r0ach]

I forgot to mention in the original post, the guy wants out of his short position and is waiting for someone to put up a big sell wall to take it, so if you short on top with him, you might get imploded fast when/if he gets out of that short position and it immediately goes up heh.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

Some guy named Cagara opened a 100btc short on Bitshares around 0.00002700 sometime around Sept 23rd.  He thought the price was going to go down to 0.00002200 but it didn't, the price went to 2450 or so then recovered to 2700 again while his short is still open.  

He keeps trying to dump into buy support to stop the rise

Now the progression of the story from yesterday is, the price has increased even higher to 2780ish now and this guy has decided instead of covering his failed short and buying 100btc worth of coins straight off the wall, he has decided to double down and place 11 btc sell walls spaced out on the sell wall to try and prevent it from going higher

the guy is a huge ass and types things like "you're all idiots investing in this stuff, I'm only here to short to make money".

Our hopes and prayers are with you!

[BitcoinNational]

Where can i short BTS?  

Since BTS 2.0 is about to release in 15 days, the price will likely continue to increase towards that date...

Unless the market has already reacted to the news.

CfB is likely right from the looks of that chart. 

And this is only just a sample of what the future has waiting for us ... once you can short XYZ for 10000BTC and couple it with FUD slinging feast from bothsides ... the fun has just begun.  

[onemorexmr]

Where can i short BTS? 

poloniex allows shorting bts

[tat123]

 carga took out a short position at 2700, for 100 BTC. If he wants to cover his short, he has to buy it back. At the time of this post he would be looking at a -30 BTC loss. He is also in a long position looking for whales to flash buy walls to intimidate shorts on a possible squeeze. He claims to be in the green at 25. One trader on Polo shouldn't mean anything if BTS is a sure thing... right?

[Crestington]

Hah, this is great!

Bitshares is way oversold right now, should be some nice profit over the next week.

Well atleast for some...

[Jahvinci]

very exciting

[sumantso]

It does seem a very risky move with the release being only 2 weeks away. regardless of what anyone might think about BTS, short term there is going to be a pump.

If I read it correctly this cagara person needs the price to drop to 0.000022 BTC which I think is too optimistic, especially now that everyone knows the level.

[r0ach]

very exciting

It will go down in the history books right next to the battle of Marathon.

[Crestington]

Interesting, BTS price breaking above 2700 again.

If r0ach is correct about the short position, this guy is already at a 100 btc loss..

[r0ach]

He's now doubling down in an attempt to save his short with....more shorts to try and prevent himself from being wiped out.  I don't think it's going to end well for him.  It's pretty dumb they even enabled margin leverage on any market smaller than Bitcoin.  All it does is allow lunatics to deposit 100 BTC and try and manipulate the entire market.  Even if it doesn't work, it just stalls out the market for days wasting everyone's time until they finally get liquidated.

Once his 100-200 BTC of shorts get plowed through, his buyback is going to pump the hell out of this coin.

[tokeweed]

Maybe he's "revenge trading".

[r0ach]

Maybe he's "revenge trading".

He doesn't know how any of these coins work and thought the price just went up for no reason and shorted it.  He doesn't know the price will probably be stable somewhere between 0.00003000 to 0.00009000 after BTS 2.0 release and thinks he can just stall the market here until he wins.

[tokeweed]

Maybe he's "revenge trading".

He doesn't know how any of these coins work and thought the price just went up for no reason and shorted it.  He doesn't know the price will probably be stable somewhere between 0.00003000 to 0.00009000 after BTS 2.0 release and thinks he can actually just stall the market here until he wins.

That's not a sure thing.  This is trading first and foremost, and one thing I learned thru experience is nothing is a sure thing in trading. 

[Habeler876]

He's now doubling down in an attempt to save his short with....more shorts to try and prevent himself from being wiped out.  I don't think it's going to end well for him.  It's pretty dumb they even enabled margin leverage on any market smaller than Bitcoin.  All it does is allow lunatics to deposit 100 BTC and try and manipulate the entire market.  Even if it doesn't work, it just stalls out the market for days wasting everyone's time until they finally get liquidated.

Once his 100-200 BTC of shorts get plowed through, his buyback is going to pump the hell out of this coin.

Has he admitted those are his walls, or are you guessing?

What price does he require BTS to go down to?

I read on Bitsharestalk that he had a long position on ETH which got called. In that case these very grim days for him.

[hcf27]

The most important question here is, how do we know this are his orders and that he is telling the truth about his trading actions?... I have seen cargara trading at polo for a while and seems to be an experienced trader, i dont think he will be telling every1 what he is doing, most likely he is doing the opposite, but the fact is that we dont know what the hell he is doing, just what he is saying!

[shanem]

Maybe he's "revenge trading".

He doesn't know how any of these coins work and thought the price just went up for no reason and shorted it.  He doesn't know the price will probably be stable somewhere between 0.00003000 to 0.00009000 after BTS 2.0 release and thinks he can just stall the market here until he wins.

How do you know the person putting up the sell walls is him. It could be someone else and there is no evidence he is behind all these sell walls.

[hcf27]

Maybe he's "revenge trading".

He doesn't know how any of these coins work and thought the price just went up for no reason and shorted it.  He doesn't know the price will probably be stable somewhere between 0.00003000 to 0.00009000 after BTS 2.0 release and thinks he can just stall the market here until he wins.

How do you know the person putting up the sell walls is him. It could be someone else and there is no evidence he is behind all these sell walls.

That is exactly my point, this is all speculation over speculation!

[chryspano]

Maybe he's "revenge trading".

He doesn't know how any of these coins work and thought the price just went up for no reason and shorted it.  He doesn't know the price will probably be stable somewhere between 0.00003000 to 0.00009000 after BTS 2.0 release and thinks he can just stall the market here until he wins.

How do you know the person putting up the sell walls is him. It could be someone else and there is no evidence he is behind all these sell walls.

That is exactly my point, this is all speculation over speculation!

Some more speculation about this guy...

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16894.msg239407.html#msg239407

[r0ach]

I was told a while ago there was some big player that was going to buy lots of Bitshares, but he was waiting until after 2.0 release to do so because "that's just the way they do business".  I think I've put together the pieces of the puzzle for who that is:

"The first, a non-profit called Blockchain Labs, was co-founded by Buterin, BitShares co-founder Bo Shen and Feng Xiao, vice chairman and executive director of Wanxiang Holdings, the company's investment arm.

The Blockchain Labs launch is to be followed by the creation of a $50m venture capital fund that will invest broadly in applications for blockchain technology and for which Wanxiang will be the sole limited partner (LP).
ADVERTISEMENT

In interview, Chao noted that Wanxiang now has roughly 10 subsidiaries in financial sectors including insurance, banking, futures and asset management, and that the investments provide it with the ability to look for ways to apply blockchain technologies to its business lines."

http://www.coindesk.com/china-wanxiang-blockchain-50-million-fund/


Then we have the Larimers going to China 2 days after BTS 2.0 release to give presentations to these people:

"Shanghai, China - October 15-16  Blockchain Summit

Stan Larimer and several other BitShares personalities*.

Blockchain Labs, China’s first professional blockchain technology institution, has invited selected "geeks, entrepreneurs, academic experts, investors, executives from financial institutions, and regulatory policy makers to join the summit and discuss the business applications and opportunities of blockchain technology in industry, such as Payment, Internet of Things, Securities Trading, Digital Assets Management. We expect that there will be around 200 guests from the financial industry, including banking, payments, securities and commodities, as well as other industries such as IoT and manufacturing."

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18638.0.html

[Spoetnik]

Hah, this is great!

Bitshares is way oversold right now, should be some nice profit over the next week.

Well atleast for some...

Too bad I am not a Korean with $1.175 million dollars USD cash to play around with (in Bitcoin)
..must be nice 

and this is part of the reason why I quit this trading stuff long ago.
big money walks in and controls the game..
which sort of spits in the face of the very concept of Bitcoin in the first place.

AKA: The rich get richer

[Crestington]

Hah, this is great!

Bitshares is way oversold right now, should be some nice profit over the next week.

Well atleast for some...

Too bad I am not a Korean with $1.175 million dollars USD cash to play around with (in Bitcoin)
..must be nice 

and this is part of the reason why I quit this trading stuff long ago.
big money walks in and controls the game..
which sort of spits in the face of the very concept of Bitcoin in the first place.

AKA: The rich get richer

Big money only can control the game to an extent, you still have to be able to sell when holding large amounts so the more you have the bigger the gain that needs to be to be able to liquidate it.

[Crestington]

Looks like someone tried shorting with a fairly large amount of Coin where some 130-140 btc worth were dumped into buy orders all at once.



The thing that is interesting is that if you really wanted to sell that amount of Coins, why would you just dump all at once instead of selling over a longer period?


I guess if considering getting in or not, this may be a good chance to get in at a low level.

[tokeweed]

Maybe someone from the inside knows something.

[Crestington]

Maybe someone from the inside knows something.

I wanna figure out how Bitshares will be able to manage 100k TPS. Realistically, if it does what it says then it's the first Blockchain that can compete with Visa so 12-15 mil marketcap is nothing when you can run entire corporations on the Blockchain.

[tokeweed]

Maybe someone from the inside knows something.

I wanna figure out how Bitshares will be able to manage 100k TPS. Realistically, if it does what it says then it's the first Blockchain that can compete with Visa so 12-15 mil marketcap is nothing when you can run entire corporations on the Blockchain.

I meant the recent dump.  BTS 2.0 is coming out which is supposedly good..  Then someone dumps.  Does not compute.

So maybe someone inside knows something?

[Crestington]

Maybe someone from the inside knows something.

I wanna figure out how Bitshares will be able to manage 100k TPS. Realistically, if it does what it says then it's the first Blockchain that can compete with Visa so 12-15 mil marketcap is nothing when you can run entire corporations on the Blockchain.

I meant the recent dump.  BTS 2.0 is coming out which is supposedly good..  Then someone dumps.  Does not compute.

So maybe someone inside knows something?

I think it would be to try to margin call people and pick up more shares at a cheaper price.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Maybe someone from the inside knows something.

I wanna figure out how Bitshares will be able to manage 100k TPS. Realistically, if it does what it says then it's the first Blockchain that can compete with Visa so 12-15 mil marketcap is nothing when you can run entire corporations on the Blockchain.

I meant the recent dump.  BTS 2.0 is coming out which is supposedly good..  Then someone dumps.  Does not compute.

So maybe someone inside knows something?

I don't know, but as soon as I read this thread with all the 'sure thing' posts about how it was going to go up, I couldn't help but think this was exactly what was going to happen.

[r0ach]

Here's the reason the price crashed.  I was right there during the whole thing:

The price of BTS on Poloniex is entirely controlled by 2 parties, one single bot (with Goldman Sachs levels of btc that is either raising or lowering price at all times) and Cagara.  I saw the bot dumping into buy walls while putting up sells lower than market rate to try and drive down price on purpose, then right after that, it or someone else removed 100+ BTC buy support so there was like 70 BTC buy support only.  I instantly closed my long because I knew something was up and after I did, like 10 people got margin called and price imploded.  Then I bought back in.

If I stayed in, price would have only gone to 2300-2400 probably, but I wasn't going to lose money during an orchestrated shakeout when I see it coming a mile away

If you were trying to time the bottom and buy on the crash, it was very hard to grab coins.  Lowest anyone was really getting in was 2200 and not in any significant quantity.  The biggest buy I saw anyone get in the 2200-2250 range was 10btc, so I highly doubt Cagara cleared his short at all yet.  Now buy wall support is back to like 300 btc again.  Buy to sell ratio was 35:3 at 0.00002200 so you can sleep pretty well on buying back in after the crash.  So yea, the shakeout wasn't caused by me, but I wasn't going to stay in and get raped while it happens.

[Crestington]

I wanna figure out how Bitshares will be able to manage 100k TPS. Realistically, if it does what it says then it's the first Blockchain that can compete with Visa so 12-15 mil marketcap is nothing when you can run entire corporations on the Blockchain.

yawn... old news.. announced over a month ago..  Wait until you see what's coming out in November...zzzzzzz...

What's coming out in November?

[Crestington]

lol so your friend Cargara said he closed his shorts now and made a +92 BTC profit.

[Marlo Stanfield]

lol so your friend Cargara said he closed his shorts now and made a +92 BTC profit.

Not such a "buffoon" after all I guess.

[illodin]

What's the latest regarding this episode?

[DecentralizeEconomics]

What's the latest regarding this episode?

Obviously, he became a multimillionaire fighting the good fight.

[tokeweed]

Who's the buffoon again?

[Habeler876]

Who's the buffoon again?

Currently he is unhappy as the market is not agreeing to his long position. Such is the fickle nature of altcoin markets.

[tokeweed]

Who's the buffoon again?

Currently he is unhappy as the market is not agreeing to his long position. Such is the fickle nature of altcoin markets.

I thought the guy who started to short 3 - 4 weeks ago was the buffoon.

[r0ach]

Think he actually bought after he imploded the market, yet he spent too much money imploding the market for any other people to have confidence in buying back in.

[tokeweed]

Think he actually bought after he imploded the market, yet he spent too much money imploding the market for any other people to have confidence in buying back in.

'Bought' meaning he covered his shorts.

[Peachy]

Maybe he's "revenge trading".

He doesn't know how any of these coins work and thought the price just went up for no reason and shorted it.  He doesn't know the price will probably be stable somewhere between 0.00003000 to 0.00009000 after BTS 2.0 release and thinks he can just stall the market here until he wins.

Current price: 0.00001825 as of Oct15-2015

20 years of investment experience here:
Careful going against shorts and any hedge fund as they generally know what they're doing.

Just from looking at the supply/demand (volume) vs. price chart view it's still in a condition of:

Sell (if you haven't already way before now)
Don't buy (if you were thinking of doing so)

Buying on the way up is my preferred method only.

I resist buying on the way down as the old saying proves true nearly every time:  Don't try to catch a falling knife as you'll usually wind up running out of fingers.

[bitsire]

Overleveraged buffoon creates biggest Mexican standoff in Altcoin history

Sharp trader profits handsomely from buffoons buying Bitshares

FIFY

[tokeweed]

Overleveraged buffoon creates biggest Mexican standoff in Altcoin history

Sharp trader profits handsomely from buffoons buying Bitshares

FIFY

ROFLOLMAO!

[LucyLovesCrypto]

Think he actually bought after he imploded the market, yet he spent too much money imploding the market for any other people to have confidence in buying back in.

'Bought' meaning he covered his shorts.

Sounds like he/she was able to cover the short at lower prices. That means the trade was profitable!

[tokeweed]

Think he actually bought after he imploded the market, yet he spent too much money imploding the market for any other people to have confidence in buying back in.

'Bought' meaning he covered his shorts.

Sounds like he/she was able to cover the short at lower prices. That means the trade was profitable!

Very much so.  So meaning he knew that the Larimers or someone from the inside would be dumping.  I doubt it's from BTS' supporters.  It has to be someone from the inside.  Not saying this as fact, just stating that it is highly highly probable as the altcoin scene = penny stock scene.  Insiders usually have the edge.

[Spoetnik]

he says he made $24,000 ?
yeah right.. prove it LOL
i bet what ever he made if he was ahead he reinvested then is down by now..
i say how much you made is how much you cashed out.. not just because you were up at the poker table for an hour ahahah

[brekyrself]

is CMC still including bts 1.0 prices from exchanges who never upgraded?  This would skew the overall price where people are dumping bts 1.0 shares on victims willing to buy on exchanges who never upgraded.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

he knew that the Larimers or someone from the inside would be dumping.  I doubt it's from BTS' supporters.  It has to be someone from the inside.  Not saying this as fact, just stating that it is highly highly probable

Big shock.

[vaporware asset wizard]

did the buffoon make r0ach look like a dick?

[r0ach]

did the buffoon make r0ach look like a dick?

I didn't lose any money.  I bailed out while 40% up because the level of manipulation was far too high.  I stayed in as long as I could.  If I was just in it for short term profits, could have made 100% but I wanted to stay in for it go to higher.  There was far too much manipulation for me to be comfortable staying in.  It was the most manipulated market I've ever seen in my life.  We're talking 200-300btc buy support added then removed constantly over and over to try and force shakeouts and pumps.  I wasn't going to put up with that much crap.

The people doing it is a group of Vietnamese with 500+ btc and a bot.  They're probably the scammiest dirtbags I've ever seen in crypto.  Having Cagara trying to manipulate with 1000btc on top of their completely idiotic barrage of manipulation tactics just made everyone exit because the risk was too high.

[tokeweed]

did the buffoon make r0ach look like a dick?

I didn't lose any money.  I bailed out while 40% up because the level of manipulation was far too high.  I stayed in as long as I could.  If I was just in it for short term profits, could have made 100% but I wanted to stay in for it go to higher. There was far too much manipulation for me to be comfortable staying in.  It was the most manipulated market I've ever seen in my life. We're talking 200-300btc buy support added then removed constantly over and over to try and force shakeouts and pumps.  I wasn't going to put up with that much crap.

The people doing it is a group of Vietnamese with 500+ btc and a bot.  They're probably the scammiest dirtbags I've ever seen in crypto.  Having Cagara trying to manipulate with 1000btc on top of their completely idiotic barrage of manipulation tactics just made everyone exit because the risk was too high.

Very much like penny stocks.  The good traders profit, it's the investors aka buy and holders who suffer.  But the ones in the know aka the insiders will always have the biggest edge.

[r0ach]

Almost seems like the Poloniex mods are in on it.  Either that or they're just not very smart.  They ban people from chat for even using the word "manipulate", yet this group of Vietnamese with like 10 people in a chatroom toss out their shorts, pull buy support, then start spamming trollbox in Engrish, "Coin die now, sell everyting, coin go zero" with 10 of them in chat.  Of course zero of them ever get banned, yet I got banned before for telling Poloniex they should disable margin because none of the markets have enough liquidity for it.

[tokeweed]

Almost seems like the Poloniex mods are in on it.  Either that or they're just not very smart.  They ban people from chat for even using the word "manipulate", yet this group of Vietnamese with like 10 people in a chatroom toss out their shorts, pull buy support, then start spamming trollbox in Engrish, "Coin die now, sell everyting, coin go zero" with 10 of them in chat.  Of course zero of them ever get banned, yet I got banned before for telling Poloniex they should disable margin because none of the markets have enough liquidity for it.

So if a group comprised of 10 Vietnamese can manipulate a market of a legit project like Bitshares, what more the other projects?  But what is 'legit' in the altcoin scene in the first place?

Again very much like penny stocks.  Lot's of hyping, pump and dumps and scheming going on.

edit:  And I wouldn't be surprised if people from the inside of Bitshares, Banx, etc.. were involved in hyping and pumping the coin.  Not saying they are, but this is common practice in penny stocks.  Happening under the SEC's 'watchful' eyes mind you.  What more in an unregulated market place?

[DecentralizeEconomics]

this group of Vietnamese with like 10 people in a chatroom toss out their shorts, pull buy support, then start spamming trollbox in Engrish, "Coin die now, sell everyting, coin go zero"

[BARR_Official]

So if a group comprised of 10 Vietnamese can manipulate a market of a legit project like Bitshares, what more the other projects?  But what is 'legit' in the altcoin scene in the first place?

My theory is that scammers and pumpers work in pools, while most of us are trying to compete solo.  Just like with mining, a small group of people combining their efforts will have a constant advantage over the other 99% of people who aren't coordinating with each other.

[r0ach]

Last time I saw Cagara, he claimed he made something like 90 btc shorting BTS, then claimed he lost it all going long after he shorted heh.  I stayed in longer than I should have but still ended 40% up.

[tokeweed]

Last time I saw Cagara, he claimed he made something like 90 btc shorting BTS, then claimed he lost it all going long after he shorted heh.  I stayed in longer than I should have but still ended 40% up.

How can he loose it all when he still has a position in BTS (long position)?  He could be timing the market well and make another 90 BTC when BTS shoots up.

[tokeweed]

margin

Ah true.  That could go against you too.

[Sir Alpha_goy]

.