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deadserious (OP)
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October 22, 2012, 05:35:07 PM |
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I forget, but does getblock 0 give you that block? If so, can it give you the serialized bytes for the transaction, as opposed to its hash? If the former, give those bytes to decoderawtransaction. If the latter the block itself is hard-coded in the source code, although I don't remember there being a decoderawblock RPC command to take a serialized block and spit out the corresponding JSON. Maybe adding one would be useful, assuming the statement "serialized block" makes sense.
I can get the block, I can't get the transaction. C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\daemon>bitcoind getblockhash 0
000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\daemon>bitcoind getblock 000000000019d6689c085ae1
65831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f
{
"hash" : "000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f",
"confirmations" : 204493,
"size" : 285,
"height" : 0,
"version" : 1,
"merkleroot" : "4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afded
a33b",
"tx" : [
"4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b"
],
"time" : 1231006505,
"nonce" : 2083236893,
"bits" : "1d00ffff",
"difficulty" : 1.00000000,
"nextblockhash" : "00000000839a8e6886ab5951d76f411475428afc90947ee320161bbf1
8eb6048"
}
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\daemon>bitcoind getrawtransaction 4a5e1e4baab89f3
a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b
error: {"code":-5,"message":"No information available about transaction"}
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MoonShadow
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Merit: 1007
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October 22, 2012, 05:47:32 PM |
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https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_blockYes, if you want to see the genesis block on your own client, you're probably going to have to dive into the code with a hex editor.
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"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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kjj
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October 22, 2012, 07:56:26 PM |
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Here is the transaction. 01000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffffffff4d04ffff001d0104455468652054696d65732030332f4a616e2f32303039204368616e63656c6c6f72206f6e206272696e6b206f66207365636f6e64206261696c6f757420666f722062616e6b73ffffffff0100f2052a01000000434104678afdb0fe5548271967f1a67130b7105cd6a828e03909a67962e0ea1f61deb649f6bc3f4cef38c4f35504e51ec112de5c384df7ba0b8d578a4c702b6bf11d5fac00000000 You can feed that to decoderawtransaction and get: {
"txid" : "4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b",
"version" : 1,
"locktime" : 0,
"vin" : [
{
"coinbase" : "04ffff001d0104455468652054696d65732030332f4a616e2f32303039204368616e63656c6c6f72206f6e206272696e6b206f66207365636f6e64206261696c6f757420666f722062616e6b73",
"sequence" : 4294967295
}
],
"vout" : [
{
"value" : 50.00000000,
"n" : 0,
"scriptPubKey" : {
"asm" : "04678afdb0fe5548271967f1a67130b7105cd6a828e03909a67962e0ea1f61deb649f6bc3f4cef38c4f35504e51ec112de5c384df7ba0b8d578a4c702b6bf11d5f OP_CHECKSIG",
"hex" : "4104678afdb0fe5548271967f1a67130b7105cd6a828e03909a67962e0ea1f61deb649f6bc3f4cef38c4f35504e51ec112de5c384df7ba0b8d578a4c702b6bf11d5fac",
"reqSigs" : 1,
"type" : "pubkey",
"addresses" : [
"1A1zP1eP5QGefi2DMPTfTL5SLmv7DivfNa"
]
}
}
]
}
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kjj
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Merit: 1024
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October 22, 2012, 08:23:20 PM |
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For what it's worth, I decoded it by hand, and saw nothing unusual. 01000000 Version
01 Number of TXIns
00000000000000000000000000000000 Hash of input (0x00 for generate)
00000000000000000000000000000000 Hash of input (0x00 for generate)
ffffffff TxOutIndex (0xffffffff for generate)
4d length (77 bytes)
04ffff001d0104455468652054696d65 16
732030332f4a616e2f32303039204368 32
616e63656c6c6f72206f6e206272696e 48
6b206f66207365636f6e64206261696c 64
6f757420666f722062616e6b73 77 bytes, "Arbitrary Data"
ffffffff nSequence
01 number of TXOuts
00f2052a01000000 value =50*100000000
43 length of output script (67 bytes)
41 Push 65 bytes
04 key type
678afdb0fe5548271967f1a67130b710 16 X
5cd6a828e03909a67962e0ea1f61deb6 32 X
49f6bc3f4cef38c4f35504e51ec112de 48 Y
5c384df7ba0b8d578a4c702b6bf11d5f 64 Y
ac OP_CHECKSIG
00000000 nLockTime
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17Np17BSrpnHCZ2pgtiMNnhjnsWJ2TMqq8
I routinely ignore posters with paid advertising in their sigs. You should too.
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deadserious (OP)
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October 22, 2012, 09:01:34 PM |
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Here is the transaction. 01000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffffffff4d04ffff001d0104455468652054696d65732030332f4a616e2f32303039204368616e63656c6c6f72206f6e206272696e6b206f66207365636f6e64206261696c6f757420666f722062616e6b73ffffffff0100f2052a01000000434104678afdb0fe5548271967f1a67130b7105cd6a828e03909a67962e0ea1f61deb649f6bc3f4cef38c4f35504e51ec112de5c384df7ba0b8d578a4c702b6bf11d5fac00000000 Can you get this from the API? Or did you pull it from the source code? |
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Pieter Wuille
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October 22, 2012, 09:07:04 PM |
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Except for the fact that its hashPrev is 0, the genesis block is not special at all.
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I do Bitcoin stuff.
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MoonShadow
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Activity: 1708
Merit: 1007
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October 22, 2012, 09:52:40 PM |
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Except for the fact that its hashPrev is 0, the genesis block is not special at all.
That does make it un-verifiable. Probably also the hand coded London Times headline in hexcode. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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Pieter Wuille
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October 22, 2012, 10:09:37 PM |
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Probably also the hand coded London Times headline in hexcode.
That is done in a completely standard way. |
I do Bitcoin stuff.
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kjj
Legendary
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Activity: 1302
Merit: 1024
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October 22, 2012, 11:18:31 PM |
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Here is the transaction. 01000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffffffff4d04ffff001d0104455468652054696d65732030332f4a616e2f32303039204368616e63656c6c6f72206f6e206272696e6b206f66207365636f6e64206261696c6f757420666f722062616e6b73ffffffff0100f2052a01000000434104678afdb0fe5548271967f1a67130b7105cd6a828e03909a67962e0ea1f61deb649f6bc3f4cef38c4f35504e51ec112de5c384df7ba0b8d578a4c702b6bf11d5fac00000000 Can you get this from the API? Or did you pull it from the source code? The "format" of blk000x.dat is very simple. 4 bytes for the magic code, "f9beb4d9". 4 bytes for the block size. 80 bytes for the header. [size-80] bytes for the block body. And the block body is very simple too, a varint that says how many transactions follow, and then the transactions themselves. What I pasted above is nearly the whole block. f9beb4d9 <-- magic
1d010000 <-- size = 285
0100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003ba3edfd7a7b12b27ac72c3e67768f617fc81bc3888a51323a9fb8aa4b1e5e4a29ab5f49ffff001d1dac2b7c <-- header
0101000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000ffffffff4d04ffff001d0104455468652054696d65732030332f4a616e2f32303039204368616e63656c6c6f72206f6e206272696e6b206f66207365636f6e64206261696c6f757420666f722062616e6b73ffffffff0100f2052a01000000434104678afdb0fe5548271967f1a67130b7105cd6a828e03909a67962e0ea1f61deb649f6bc3f4cef38c4f35504e51ec112de5c384df7ba0b8d578a4c702b6bf11d5fac00000000 <-- body (the initial 01 is the number of transactions, the rest is the genesis transaction)
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17Np17BSrpnHCZ2pgtiMNnhjnsWJ2TMqq8
I routinely ignore posters with paid advertising in their sigs. You should too.
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runeks
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October 23, 2012, 04:31:13 PM |
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It is not known whether this is a bug or intentional, but the reference client never adds the genesis transaction to its index. Thus, its outputs cannot be spent. Changing this would imply giving Satoshi an instant switch to fork the network. I'm sure we respect him a lot, but not enough for that  I still don't get the highlighted part above. Why would adding the genesis block to the block index give Satoshi "an instant switch to fork the network"? |
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blueadept
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October 23, 2012, 04:34:52 PM |
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Because the block in which he redeems the output of the genesis block would be rejected by nodes running old code but not new code.
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runeks
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October 23, 2012, 04:40:38 PM |
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Ah, ok. I guess I understood it to mean that if spending the transaction was enabled from the beginning, it would allow him to fork the network. I see how enabling it later on has that effect.
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Yurock
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July 12, 2013, 10:59:52 PM |
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Changing this would imply giving Satoshi an instant switch to fork the network. No. First, nodes would check if the majority of miners is ready for the change and then all would add the transaction to the index at the same time. This would leave no time frame for the attack. So, technically the change can be done in a safe manner. Although, recovering 50 BTC from the first block may not worth the effort. |
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gmaxwell
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July 13, 2013, 05:14:14 AM |
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Changing this would imply giving Satoshi an instant switch to fork the network. No. First, nodes would check if the majority of miners is ready for the change and then all would add the transaction to the index at the same time. This would leave no time frame for the attack. So, technically the change can be done in a safe manner. Although, recovering 50 BTC from the first block may not worth the effort. No, ... and arguing with Pieter about such things is usually not advisable.  What you're describing is how a soft-forking or backwards compatible change can be safely made. But this change is not backwards compatible. Doesn't matter if most— or even 80% of the miners are happy with it, the blocks would be rejected by all full nodes no matter how many miners are on it. Such a change can not be made safe by having mining on it. |
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🏰 TradeFortress 🏰
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July 13, 2013, 05:19:02 AM |
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I find it funny how we are arguing about 50 bitcoins that is owned by a person who probably has more than a million.
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kjj
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July 13, 2013, 05:44:08 AM |
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I find it funny how we are arguing about 50 bitcoins that is owned by a person who probably has more than a million.
Then you should probably read the thread again. It isn't about the coins, it is about making sure that the entire network treats those coins in the same way if they ever move. |
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bitspill
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July 13, 2013, 05:49:16 AM |
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I find it funny how we are arguing about 50 bitcoins that is owned by a person who probably has more than a million.
I find it funny this thread was last posted in October 2012 before getting bumped yesterday. |
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Yurock
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July 13, 2013, 09:35:42 AM
Last edit: July 13, 2013, 09:54:58 AM by Yurock |
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Doesn't matter if most— or even 80% of the miners are happy with it, the blocks would be rejected by all full nodes no matter how many miners are on it. Such a change can not be made safe by having mining on it. Why do you think that nodes will not upgrade in a timely fashion? If there is no safe path, how would you increase the block size limit? |
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