What 2.0 Currency will be the most successful?

[didnottell]

Not when your original announcement clearly explains
exactly what you have invented (including its limitations)
and what that implies for the future product line specs
and your testing program is an open book for all to observe progress toward that spec.

Have you lost common sense?

It does not matter how much you have "explained" and "think you have invented" - what matters is that you could not live up to that fine document you linked, and now you refuse to admit your were wrong. You must be the only one who can't see that.
Pathetic!

[1715045005]

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[StanLarimer]

Suit yourselves.

 

[upsidedown75]

My think NXT, Qora and NEM are the best three crypto 2.0 coins out there at the moment. Offering the best tech.

[wingspan]

Not when your original announcement clearly explains
exactly what you have invented (including its limitations)
and what that implies for the future product line specs
and your testing program is an open book for all to observe progress toward that spec.

this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBlAVeVFWFM implies very clearly that Bitshares can do 100K TPS "conservatively" in the real world right away.  Now Bitshares is saying 100 TPS is the max it can handle in the real world....hoping for soft fork improvements later.

Let's take a step back and focus on the big picture.

We really need a crypto that meets these general conditions:

• 100% decentralized: can not be controlled except by the majority of the public.
• Has a stable price.
• Is secure (supports 2FA), easy (like a credit card) and cheap (nearly free).
• Does not waste energy or resources.
• Is as private as a user wants.
• Fair distribution opportunities - no insider advantage before nor after launch. Everyone is rewarded in proportion for the work performed and the money risked.
• Will have capacity to replace all fiat transactions (sustain 100K TPS) whenever needed.
• Has strong evidence of the above via long-running global test, whitepapers, and code reviews.

Please don't launch a Crypto until you've met these conditions.

[r0ach]

Now, after your testing over the weekend where the test net died at a mere 1-2% of that claim

Oh please, where does it say 100kTPS on a 1 core CPU?  They mentioned it would need something like 32 cores to do that.  Some guy named "clayop" in Korea ran a test while Larimers weren't even around that peaked at 3k TPS and some of the delegates running were single core VPS I believe.  It's a dumb test because he doesn't even list hardware used or what the bottleneck seen was, etc.  They need to make sure nobody is running some gimpy single core VPS before doing any more tests.

[Fuserleer]

Now, after your testing over the weekend where the test net died at a mere 1-2% of that claim

Oh please, where does it say 100kTPS on a 1 core CPU?  They mentioned it would need something like 32 cores to do that.  Some guy named "clayop" in Korea ran a test while Larimers weren't even around that peaked at 3k TPS and some of the delegates running were single core VPS I believe.  It's a dumb test because he doesn't even list hardware used or what the bottleneck seen was, etc.  They need to make sure nobody is running some gimpy single core VPS before doing any more tests.

100k / 32 = 3.125k tps on a 1 core....it should be attainable using that math, yet it died.

Anyway the issue I believe wasn't CPU but networking, which I've pointed out time and time again either that or disc IO would be a problem....and it is.

Doesn't matter if the Larimers were around or not, its not a dumb test.  If you are continuously claiming that your network can support 100k tps sustained "conservatively", it should be able to handle a few 1000 tps peaks without issue regardless of hardware in use, whether the overlords are present or not etc etc

What happens in the future if some delegates are voted in that have "gimpy hardware".....it croaks and falls flat on its back? :|

[r0ach]

What happens in the future if some delegates are voted in that have "gimpy hardware".....it croaks and falls flat on its back? :|

Then only that specific delegate dies.  Probably get voted out fast having 0 uptime.

[StanLarimer]

What happens in the future if some delegates are voted in that have "gimpy hardware".....it croaks and falls flat on its back? :|

That's a strawman that can't happen with the system we will launch next week as explained in the ongoing lab reports at bitsharestalk.org.  The network software ensures that "gimpy hardware" is not overtasked until such time as the community votes to turn up the throttle as the load on the network grows and produces the funding needed to pay all delegates to upgrade to the next level of hardware.

The October 13 system runs fast enough to host the total number of transactions needed by all 600+ coinmarketcap blockchains combined. Which is pretty amazing, don't you think? 

You're quibbling about how long it will take to iron out the bugs in something we won't need till next year and whether the initial announcement could be misinterpreted in some creative way as a hopeful controversy while ignoring a clear home run effort by the BitShares community. 

Fact is, current performance is impressive and we are on a clear path to achieve real time blockchain operation when we need it with no remaining breakthroughs required - only the normal debug activities that all developers encounter in wringing out load balancing issues.  

Next year's network software is expected to be buggy at this point it time,
because we've been focusing on the product we want to launch now.

[Peachy]

Voting, Delegating, Witnessing... uggh.. I'm tired already.  

Sorry, I just like my money boring and predictable, but I'm (maybe) in the minority as I'm usually too busy with other tasks and don't want to have to keep monitoring my wallet hour-by-hour to be sure my dollar is still worth a dollar.

Why can't all of this be automated?  Do we really need all these 'people' involved?

Also seems like only those with beefy hardware will get earnings and fees.  What about those with lower end equipment (including smartphones)?  Even if they only confirm 1 txn they should get something for contributing work towards securing the ecosystem.

[Flyskyhigh]

Why isn't Mintcoin on the list? I vote MINT

[StanLarimer]

Voting, Delegating, Witnessing... uggh.. I'm tired already.  

Sorry, I just like my money boring and predictable, but I'm (maybe) in the minority as I'm usually too busy with other tasks and don't want to have to keep monitoring my wallet hour-by-hour to be sure my dollar is still worth a dollar.

Why can't all of this be automated?  Do we really need all these 'people' involved?

Also seems like only those with beefy hardware will get earnings and fees.  What about those with lower end equipment (including smartphones)?  Even if they only confirm 1 txn they should get something for contributing work towards securing the ecosystem.

Get elected and get paid by the system to upgrade your rig to the size nodes required at any point in time.
There is no such thing as people who can't participate.  They just have to be trusted by the stakeholders.
BitShares is the system that pays everybody, rich or poor, who is trusted enough to sign our blocks to get the equipment they need.

Read up on the two years of BitShares theory about how to manage decentralization and overcome the natural tendency of all systems to centralize on a few rich miners.  Graphene is an industrial grade blockchain and signing blocks on cell phones is not needed for any conceivable reason. It doesn't make system engineering sense.  (You still will be able to have a cell phone wallet, but that's a different system function.)
 
We are making an upgrade to all our incredible new features available for any developer who want's to upgrade her coin to a new platform for essentially free.  Hundreds of coins currently listen on coinmarketcap could become state of the art overnight, if we didn't have such sad "not invented here" attitudes.

What happened to the cooperative attitude the crypto community used to have?  

These days we seem awfully eager to throw stones through other people's front windows.

[StanLarimer]

Why can't all of this be automated?  Do we really need all these 'people' involved?

This IS all automated.  Shareholders are voting for which computers (operated by somebody) will make up the massively redundant distributed processor at any point in time.

Please show me a computer running anywhere in the world that doesn't have somebody somewhere who's responsible to keep it running with up to date software and a paid up power bill.

[Peachy]

Not trying to be anti-cooperative, but it just seems very bureaucratic and thus I see it (opinion) as an incremental improvement from Bitcoin, but (more opinion) not really in the direction I'd feel proud to say I'm a part of.

Good luck with your project, but I'll wait for something easier to use that's fair for everyone. 

Re: smartphones - So I guess the poor guys in Africa can only spend the funds and not ever hope to earn any funds.

[r0ach]

Re: smartphones - So I guess the poor guys in Africa can only spend the funds and not ever hope to earn any funds.

I know Dan is proud of his African heritage and all, but can we go one day without a coffee cup or Africa reference in crypto.  I will even promise to unban him from paypal.

[StanLarimer]

Not trying to be anti-cooperative, but it just seems very bureaucratic and thus I see it (opinion) as an incremental improvement from Bitcoin, but (more opinion) not really in the direction I'd feel proud to say I'm a part of.

Good luck with your project, but I'll wait for something easier to use that's fair for everyone.  

Re: smartphones - So I guess the poor guys in Africa can only spend the funds and not ever hope to earn any funds.

No, if you get elected you get paid a standard witness salary which covers your costs plus pay.  Doesn't matter where you are.

You should try out the new 2.0 - we've had a lot of guys working hard to make it sleek and fun to use.
(And it's not a coin, its a platform for all kinds of financial transactions and services.  Doesn't mean that there won't be wallets that hide all that for people who only want to use it to pay for stuff.  Check out nanocard at openledger.info - a debit card that spends crypto anywhere.  Doesn't get much easier than that!  Check out blocktrades.com.  Heck there's all sorts of easy interfaces with more coming every day.)

[Cobra]

Get elected and get paid by the system to upgrade your rig to the size nodes required at any point in time.
There is no such thing as people who can't participate.  They just have to be trusted by the stakeholders.
BitShares is the system that pays everybody, rich or poor, who is trusted enough to sign our blocks to get the equipment they need.

This was the reason (DPOS) I lost interest in August 2014 after you confirmed this is how the system worked via email to me. At the time the network had just launched and established itself with the 101 nodes. I have 0 faith in a system where I have to try to run a campaign for votes or get people to like me and vote for me. The task of running a node should not matter as long as the task at hand is performed properly by the hardware there should be no need for human interaction in the process or chances for delegates to collude on voting. I can see being voted out if you cannot meet certain levels of performance but they should be given a timeframe or deadline to upgrade as needed. (why not other nodes are there to fallback on).

The human aspect should not have anything to do with being selected as a delegate in my opinion. Why can't that process be automated or the system automatically kicking out delegates that do not meet performance levels and selecting new random nodes without voting?  If you have a standby list of delegates that you need to climb up to reach the 101 would some not wait years?

A random selection of new delegates would solve the problem of fairness for all and give new users an opportunity to participate without voting. Let the nodes perform a task and take the human element out of it. Even if a delegate is doing their job properly a rotation should exist where they can only be in the 101 for so long.

I guess the bottom line is that this system is centralized and not much focus is put on fairness for all.  With eMunie any user who chooses to run services and perform work in the network will be rewarded accordingly regardless of when they start, 1 day or 3yrs down the road. Decentralized........Fast.......Fair.

[r0ach]

The human aspect should not have anything to do with being selected as a delegate in my opinion.

You do know this is exactly how Bitcoin works right?  Since solo mining is somewhere between impossible and unfeasible, you're required to delegate your vote to a pool owner, and you only get the choice of a couple to choose from.  Same thing in the end game of PoS where it's already guaranteed others will be pooling stake for faster payouts, thus forcing you into doing so as well.  Otherwise you would get like 1 block per decade, which does nothing to help security, and nobody participate in that payout model in the first place.

PoW, PoS, and DPoS all use delegation, and thus reputation.  Emunie appears to be using reputation as well.  They're all more similar than different.  On the other hand, PoW and DPoS have fault correction systems where you can just change your vote by changing pool or delegates if something bad happens.  If something bad happens in Emunie, there's probably no manual fault correction tool like this available to users to fix the network again.  Then what happens?  It's also a partitioned network, so the simple act of updating it can also blow it up.

Due to the simple fact that you can't upload these monetary systems to the internet and have them function like a virus where they run forever with no human intervention, it might be a huge design error not building manual correction tools into the system.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

What happened to the cooperative attitude the crypto community used to have?

Well Chairman Stanlin, when the corporate fascists / communists started their invasion of the cryptosphere and started promoting derivatives as assets, cronyism as fair elections, centralization as inevitable, and asked us to hand over our private keys some of us got angry.

[RealBitcoin]

What happened to the cooperative attitude the crypto community used to have?

Well Chairman Stanlin, when the corporate fascists / communists started their invasion of the cryptosphere and started promoting derivatives as assets, cronyism as fair elections, centralization as inevitable, and asked us to hand over our private keys some of us got angry.

Probable, but i`m more disapointed at the mining mechanism.

Difficulty of mining should never increase. If it does, then centralization is inevitable, and bitcoin will be under corporate rule in no-time.

It is already happening, so better keep an eye on this. I`m not a fan of the POW vs POS debate, but if this is so then POS looks to be superior.

The BITCOIN 2.0 is either full POS or it's POW where the difficulty doesn't increase

[StanLarimer]

Get elected and get paid by the system to upgrade your rig to the size nodes required at any point in time.
There is no such thing as people who can't participate.  They just have to be trusted by the stakeholders.
BitShares is the system that pays everybody, rich or poor, who is trusted enough to sign our blocks to get the equipment they need.

This was the reason (DPOS) I lost interest in August 2014 after you confirmed this is how the system worked via email to me. At the time the network had just launched and established itself with the 101 nodes. I have 0 faith in a system where I have to try to run a campaign for votes or get people to like me and vote for me. The task of running a node should not matter as long as the task at hand is performed properly by the hardware there should be no need for human interaction in the process or chances for delegates to collude on voting. I can see being voted out if you cannot meet certain levels of performance but they should be given a timeframe or deadline to upgrade as needed. (why not other nodes are there to fallback on).

The human aspect should not have anything to do with being selected as a delegate in my opinion. Why can't that process be automated or the system automatically kicking out delegates that do not meet performance levels and selecting new random nodes without voting?  If you have a standby list of delegates that you need to climb up to reach the 101 would some not wait years?

A random selection of new delegates would solve the problem of fairness for all and give new users an opportunity to participate without voting. Let the nodes perform a task and take the human element out of it. Even if a delegate is doing their job properly a rotation should exist where they can only be in the 101 for so long.

I guess the bottom line is that this system is centralized and not much focus is put on fairness for all.  With eMunie any user who chooses to run services and perform work in the network will be rewarded accordingly regardless of when they start, 1 day or 3yrs down the road. Decentralized........Fast.......Fair.

Can't think of anything more fair than the guys who have earned the trust of the most people being the ones to sign blocks.  Its not like its a lucrative position or anything.  People get paid for their expenses and time.  So BitShares folks don't really care all that much who signs it.  The guys who get the most votes are as good as any to do that thankless job.  The jobs generally go to active community members who get fired if they stop being reliable - something that is immediately obvious so nobody worries about it much.  

The new 2.0 version adds the capability for you to vote like someone else you trust to pay attention and choose wisely.  Just tell the system to vote like Bart Simpson and forget about it.  If you don't like his slate, you can change to someone else's slate or roll your own any time you want.

So the system is totally decentralized down to a vote for every single satoshi in circulation.  There are many ways to focus your votes to select the hardware configuration that does the fault-tolerant processing.  That is perfectly decentralized control.  You are looking in the wrong place to get your decentralization if you're trying to count nodes in the globally distributed network.  

Anyway, there are many ways to skin the cat.  I guess its ok to base which system you use on what's under the hood instead of what it does for you.  My roommate really liked his Hurst 4-speed competition shifter and Holly four barrel carburetor for some reason even though his Chevelle Supersport wasn't nearly as good looking as my '68 Mustang.  But both got us up and down the strip every Friday night.

The question is, can we offer a product that enough people will find useful to earn us a return on the man years we spent building it?

If you prefer blue instead of red, we understand.