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Author Topic: Whats wrong with hoarding bitcoins?  (Read 3341 times)
triforcelink
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June 04, 2011, 02:04:49 PM
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Why do I keep getting this negative vibe from people as soon as they hear that word? Whats the difference between 'saving' and 'hoarding'? what is the difference between hoarding/saving virtual currency and physical goods? We hoard our entire lives, we collect stamps, buy cars, houses, and all sorts of junk, but for some reason that's OK to do, wasting your money on some meaningless junk is OK, OH REALLY?!

If you say hoarding is bad because it will slow economic growth, I say, good riddens, if the market does not know how to produce something more valuable than some imaginary coins then maybe the economy should not be growing in the first place!

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Vladimir
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June 04, 2011, 02:07:25 PM
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Whats wrong with hoarding bitcoins?

Nothing. What's wrong with those who think that saving money is bad?

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June 04, 2011, 02:11:10 PM
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People who get upset at "hoarding" are Keynesians. Don't blame them though, they've probably been educated in public schools.
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June 04, 2011, 02:14:23 PM
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People who get upset at "hoarding" are Keynesians. Don't blame them though, they've probably been educated in public schools.
What kind of elitist nonsense is that?  What difference does it make about public vs. private education?  Money makes you smarter?

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TheMagikarp
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June 04, 2011, 02:18:25 PM
 #5

An economy can't function if nobody spends any money.

Don't know the difference between their, there and they're? I can help! (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=10562.0)
CravenEconomics
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Happy deflation!


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June 04, 2011, 02:20:56 PM
 #6

An economy can't function if nobody spends any money.

this

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nickwit
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June 04, 2011, 02:21:50 PM
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A currency serves two purposes:

1) value exchange
2) value storage

These two possibly ought to be decoupled... because a currency that's inherently good at storage, is inherently bad at exchange... usually by very very minor degrees... but bad nonetheless. Fiat is designed for storage.... so the people with a lot of it get something for nothing. Old grain-based currencies were really good for exchange because you needed to spend them before they depreciated.

So. Whether that's good for bitcoins depends on what you think bitcoins are for.

Personally, I think bitcoins are "for" exchange... I want to see a really dynamic economy evolve out of them that isn't constantly pushing money uphill to people who are already rich. That said, the value of them is so meteoric at the moment, I can't help but hoard them. What started out as a couple of hundred dollars is now a couple of thousand.

I think possibly this meteoric rise in value might be what drives them in the early days... so I'm not complaining. Sit back, see what happens.
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June 04, 2011, 02:23:05 PM
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People who get upset at "hoarding" are Keynesians. Don't blame them though, they've probably been educated in public schools.
What kind of elitist nonsense is that?  What difference does it make about public vs. private education?  Money makes you smarter?

Public schools suck.  I know, I slept through one, and graduated in the top 10%.  Luckily, I went to a good college that actually challenged my mind a little.  I'm not sure the private education system is much better, but I'm not sure how it can be worse.

As we slide down the banister of life, this is just another splinter in our ass.
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June 04, 2011, 02:23:41 PM
 #9

The way i see it is saving is accumulating a currency in the hope of buying something which you cannot currently afford. Hoarding is accumulating currency with no intention of buying something, purely based on the expectation that the value of the currency will increase. This is potentially bad because if the value of the currency drops the hoarders loose confidence and may panic sell, causing a crash.  

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June 04, 2011, 02:24:11 PM
 #10

An economy can't function if nobody spends any money.

this

The bitcoin economy if functioning, therefore people are spending money.  Also, this has already been beat to death 100 times.

As we slide down the banister of life, this is just another splinter in our ass.
stic.man
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June 04, 2011, 02:26:40 PM
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why would people sell an asset that typically appreciates for goods/services?  Because they need that good or service today.  Or else no one would ever sell a house.
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June 04, 2011, 02:43:41 PM
 #12

It’s wrong because people ought to stay poor, so the debt masters stay in control. You need to buy shit you don’t need with money you don’t have so the economy keeps growing while wasting the earth’s resources.

That’s why credit cards are a great invention!

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June 04, 2011, 02:46:37 PM
 #13

A currency serves two purposes:

1) value exchange
2) value storage
The idea that value can be stored is *mostly a myth. An ideal currency under the right conditions can appear as if it is storing value and that's good enough most of the time so it's not too much of a stretch to behave as if it really is "storing value".

But ultimately value is the willingness of another person to give you something else for what you have. Willingness is not storable so the capability to store value can only be emulated.

*You can store tangible goods and they will keep some inherent utility but that's a minor part of the economy.
edd
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June 04, 2011, 03:05:10 PM
 #14

This is the way I look at it:

Bitcoins can't continue to grow in value at this rate forever. Let's say Bitcoin really takes off, fulfilling all of our dreams and becoming the dominant world currency, trading at 1 BTC for 1,000,000,000 USD. I sincerely believe those with "Bitcoin hoards" will part with some of their stash in order to improve their quality of life, purchase goods, fund projects, etc. Even if they don't and end up like the little old lady who dies in a shack surrounded by filth but with a mattress stuffed with cash, their BTC will just get passed on to their heirs who are more likely to inject them back into the economy. By hoarding bitcoins now, they're simply taking them out of circulation temporarily.

Still around.
michaelmclees
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June 04, 2011, 04:44:36 PM
 #15

An economy can't function if nobody spends any money.

But the fact that it is money means that people spend it.  This simple taughtology invalidates the most common and erroneous criticisms of Bitcoin.
tomcollins
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June 04, 2011, 07:24:18 PM
 #16

Hoarding is only bad if everyone stops hoarding at the same time.
triforcelink
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June 04, 2011, 07:55:13 PM
 #17

Hoarding is only bad if everyone stops hoarding at the same time.

Do you think that everyone will stop hoarding bitcoins at the same time? If this was true, I would look at this as a great sale, and just buy more. Maybe there is a good reason as to why everyone would stop hoarding at the same time, such as a bitcoin network hack/crash.

CravenEconomics
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Happy deflation!


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June 04, 2011, 08:01:47 PM
 #18

Hoarding is only bad if everyone stops hoarding at the same time.

Do you think that everyone will stop hoarding bitcoins at the same time? If this was true, I would look at this as a great sale, and just buy more. Maybe there is a good reason as to why everyone would stop hoarding at the same time, such as a bitcoin network hack/crash.

Sometimes it is an incredible discount, like the massive sell off during the financial collapse, other times it is an appropriate reaction to an event.

Depends on the situation

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Dobrodav
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June 04, 2011, 08:06:37 PM
 #19

Well if somebody need a house, he can choose - still keep  BTC, and live like a bum, or buy a house (spend BTC), rent a house (spend BTC).
Peaple will become more carefull with their willings. They will start to see difference between what they need, and what they really dont.  
    Its of course - awfull,  terror from the net, we are doomed. Stop, - why ?

We will  meet in not-so-distant future.
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triforcelink
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June 04, 2011, 08:31:30 PM
 #20

Peaple will become more carefull with their willings. They will start to see difference between what they need, and what they really dont.

YES! these are my EXACT thoughts! as long as the system remains secure, I think hoarding should become the norm. I don't see a problem with people gaining value from 'nothing' (its not really from nothing, its more like the system becomes more stable and valuable because more people use it and the ones that were willing to stick their tail out there first to make it more stable and are rewarded)

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