Meanwhile in Las Vegas.....

[molecular]

PayPal has couch. Do you have couch? I will only use your payment service if you offer couches.

Bitcoin no need couch. Bitcoin got coffee table. Coffee table NSFW, so no pic. PayPal envy coffee table. Show over. Coffee table going back home to Rassah. Mongo sad.

Seriously, great work guys. Hopefully there's a video or two coming soon to curb our enthusiasm.

~Bruno K~

bitcoin coffee table feature ASIC-warm coffee mug. coffee-mug pay for coffee. paypal envy no end.

[Desolator]

Sweet..... Great job   Anyone attend this conference I don't see many people walking about....

it's easier for paypal to hit you in the head and steal your wallet if you're sitting down

[ArticMine]

Hey All,

BitInstant is sponsoring the 3 day Money2020 conference in Las Vegas this week.

I'm also doing a panel on Virtual Currency and Payment Monday evening.

Erik made sure we got placed next to Paypal  



L to R: Roger Ver, Charlie Shrem, Erik Voorhees

It is only a matter of time before PayPal accepts Bitcoin as a funding source. If they do not do this themselves somebody else will make this happen. Wait a moment is there not a BitInstant Bitcoin funded debit card in the works?

Very good show by the way.

[Carlton Banks]

What we really should be asking ourselves is: what are all the reasons PayPal would NOT want to offer BTC as a currency option (whether it's legal, technical, lack of experts, fear of reprisal, etc.), and work on attacking those, rather than attacking PayPal as the enemy.

I can think of one serious technical inhibition: how could PayPal hope to enable Bitcoin chargebacks without a protocol change? To make that viable, Paypal would need the ability to prevent the amount that represents an individual transaction from being spent from the merchants wallet, for as long as the chargeback period lasts. I can't picture the dev team accepting that sort of change.

[ArticMine]

What we really should be asking ourselves is: what are all the reasons PayPal would NOT want to offer BTC as a currency option (whether it's legal, technical, lack of experts, fear of reprisal, etc.), and work on attacking those, rather than attacking PayPal as the enemy.

I can think of one serious technical inhibition: how could PayPal hope to enable Bitcoin chargebacks without a protocol change? To make that viable, Paypal would need the ability to prevent the amount that represents an individual transaction from being spent from the merchants wallet, for as long as the chargeback period lasts. I can't picture the dev team accepting that sort of change.

Easy the same as they do with CAD, USD etc.

1) Qualify the merchant's credit to cover the chargeback risk
2) Do not release the Bitcoins and hold the funds for up to 6 months if there is a problem.
3) Do not allow the use of the service as a currency exchange as is currently their policy.

Bitcoin has one huge advantage for PayPal as a funding method namely that PayPal itself is not subject to chargebacks as is currently the case with credit cards as a funding method. The latter is a huge risk for PayPal hence a lot of their polices that many find so objectionable. What PayPal should never allow is the deposit of funds via a credit or debit card and the subsequnt withdrawal of the same funds as Bitcoin since that would leave PayPal with a huge chargeback risk. This is precisely what PayPal's introduction to BItcoin has been so it is hardly surprising that PayPal would ban Bitcoin on their system.  The other way around as BitInstant is proposing with their Bitcoin funded debit card works just fine.

[franky1]

I can think of one serious technical inhibition: how could PayPal hope to enable Bitcoin chargebacks without a protocol change? To make that viable, Paypal would need the ability to prevent the amount that represents an individual transaction from being spent from the merchants wallet, for as long as the chargeback period lasts. I can't picture the dev team accepting that sort of change.

no need to change the protocol to allow refunds/chargebacks. the term chargebacks comes from the banking structure with its card theft/fraud insurance policies.

but bitcoin doesnt have such insurance policies so all that is needed is positive feedback to make the transaction complete. so just like ebay, paypal holds the funds until positive feedback is given. end of story.

the only issue i can see is if paypal became their own fiat to bitcoin exchanger. but if they just kept it simple by allowing payment in GOODS/products for paypal fiat or bitcoin. there would be no protocol changes required.

-sidethought-
if any protocol changes are needed to make crypto currency more regulated maybe use litecoin for the regulated stuff and bitcoin for the anonymous stuff.. thus keeping everyone happy, while also getting a crypto currency to mass market

[deeplink]

if any protocol changes are needed to make crypto currency more regulated maybe use litecoin for the regulated stuff and bitcoin for the anonymous stuff.. thus keeping everyone happy, while also getting a crypto currency to mass market

If that is going to happen at all, I'd expect it to be the other way around.

[franky1]

if any protocol changes are needed to make crypto currency more regulated maybe use litecoin for the regulated stuff and bitcoin for the anonymous stuff.. thus keeping everyone happy, while also getting a crypto currency to mass market

If that is going to happen at all, I'd expect it to be the other way around.

read the other threads, as there are too many drug dealers loving the anonymity of bitcoin to ever let bitcoin become regulated.. EG the 50+ pages of trolls objecting to the BTC foundation, the pages on the economy subsection hating the identification AML/KYC regulations that MTGOX and bitinstant NEED to follow. its soo much easier to start with a clean slate such as litecoin. instead of unsuccessfully pushing drug dealers away from bitcoin.

let druggies continue to use bitcoin after all its their money, no one should tell them what to do with it. let them live in their blissful existence. and allow the rest of us more reputable people concentrate on getting A cryptocurrency to mass market to counteract the FIAT ties that bind our hands.

by overcoming merchants main objections to handling propoganda'd media press of bitcoins (ponzi, silkroad reputation). It would get a lot more merchants accepting crypto sooner. which would then ripple onto merchants taking the risk and adopting bitcoin too.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

Heh, your obvious bias towards litecoin is spilling out of your nose 

Let's analyze:

read the other threads, as there are too many drug dealers loving the anonymity of bitcoin to ever let bitcoin become regulated

Do you have stats for that claim?

EG the 50+ pages of trolls objecting to the BTC foundation

It's 50 pages of people discussing the foundation, only a dozen of the same people are against it. They are not trolls, they are real people who have real issues with the foundation. Some of those issues have already been addressed in foundation meetings.

the pages on the economy subsection hating the identification AML/KYC regulations that MTGOX and bitinstant NEED to follow. its soo much easier to start with a clean slate such as litecoin. instead of unsuccessfully pushing drug dealers away from bitcoin.

Dude, for any Litecoin business or Litecoin itself to survive it needs legal businesses to exist within its economy.

You are pushing for a double standard. If Bitcoin becomes more friendly to the legal world the druggies will stop using it. If what you want to do to Litecoin happens, the druggies WILL use it. The only reason Bitcoin is attractive to the underground markets is because its unregulated.

let druggies continue to use bitcoin after all its their money, no one should tell them what to do with it. let them live in their blissful existence. and allow the rest of us more reputable people concentrate on getting A cryptocurrency to mass market to counteract the FIAT ties that bind our hands.

by overcoming merchants main objections to handling propoganda'd media press of bitcoins (ponzi, silkroad reputation). It would get a lot more merchants accepting crypto sooner. which would then ripple onto merchants taking the risk and adopting bitcoin too.

That makes absolutely no sense. Litecoin will never reach mass market or adoption without either the druggies using it or it becoming better regulated and consumer protection.

You are advocating both sides in your post, it makes no sense.

-Charlie

[evlew]

Hey All,

BitInstant is sponsoring the 3 day Money2020 conference in Las Vegas this week.

I'm also doing a panel on Virtual Currency and Payment Monday evening.

Erik made sure we got placed next to Paypal  



L to R: Roger Ver, Charlie Shrem, Erik Voorhees

Thanks for your guys' work and for making bitcoin more widely known about. 

Very exciting stuff.

[evoorhees]

Heh, your obvious bias towards litecoin is spilling out of your nose 

Let's analyze:

read the other threads, as there are too many drug dealers loving the anonymity of bitcoin to ever let bitcoin become regulated

Do you have stats for that claim?

EG the 50+ pages of trolls objecting to the BTC foundation

It's 50 pages of people discussing the foundation, only a dozen of the same people are against it. They are not trolls, they are real people who have real issues with the foundation. Some of those issues have already been addressed in foundation meetings.

the pages on the economy subsection hating the identification AML/KYC regulations that MTGOX and bitinstant NEED to follow. its soo much easier to start with a clean slate such as litecoin. instead of unsuccessfully pushing drug dealers away from bitcoin.

Dude, for any Litecoin business or Litecoin itself to survive it needs legal businesses to exist within its economy.

You are pushing for a double standard. If Bitcoin becomes more friendly to the legal world the druggies will stop using it. If what you want to do to Litecoin happens, the druggies WILL use it. The only reason Bitcoin is attractive to the underground markets is because its unregulated.

let druggies continue to use bitcoin after all its their money, no one should tell them what to do with it. let them live in their blissful existence. and allow the rest of us more reputable people concentrate on getting A cryptocurrency to mass market to counteract the FIAT ties that bind our hands.

by overcoming merchants main objections to handling propoganda'd media press of bitcoins (ponzi, silkroad reputation). It would get a lot more merchants accepting crypto sooner. which would then ripple onto merchants taking the risk and adopting bitcoin too.

That makes absolutely no sense. Litecoin will never reach mass market or adoption without either the druggies using it or it becoming better regulated and consumer protection.

You are advocating both sides in your post, it makes no sense.

-Charlie

+1 Charlie lays the smack down.

[molecular]

Heh, your obvious bias towards litecoin is spilling out of your nose 

lol. I don't see how franky1s idea would work at all: why would anyone want to regulate litecoin (whatever that my look like) and then expect everyone to jump on it because of that? Bitcoin survived for as long as it has precisely because it slips through the fingers of people attempting to control it and - like it or not - a lot of people use it precisely because of that (illegal trade, capital flight, tax evasion,...)

[franky1]

due to my reply being off topic to the good work bitinstant done at las vegas ill just link in my reply. to avoid sidelining the main topic.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=121480.msg1309971#msg1309971

i advocate ANY crypto for many different reasons, and i salute bitinstant because of the ideologies as an alternative to FIAT payment systems.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

due to my reply being off topic to the good work bitinstant done at las vegas ill just link in my reply. to avoid sidelining the main topic.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=121480.msg1309971#msg1309971

i advocate ANY crypto for many different reasons, and i salute bitinstant because of the ideologies as an alternative to FIAT payment systems.

Wow, you've just earned so much respect in my book.

You are a gentleman and a scholar, sir.

I honestly would have kept the convo going, my forum etiquette is not as good as yours.

Thanks

[Stephen Gornick]

A pretty large Bitcoin contingent will be at Money2020 in 2013.
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289370.0

What a difference a year makes.

[Melbustus]

A pretty large Bitcoin contingent will be at Money2020 in 2013.
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289370.0

What a difference a year makes.

What a difference TWO years makes...

[green king]

Nice! Good to see Bitcoin presented so professionally. I love that the PayPal folks have no choice but to stare at Bitcoin the entire show.

hope bitcoin can be accepted by more people, paypal is just so so.

[Piston Honda]

I was ALMOST able to attend this show, would be a flight but too bad I missed it.  I followed a bunch of the news on twitter as best I could, looks like there was TONS of info there.  Great to see!