Lenders fighting SCAM together

[altcoinhosting]

I have an active loan thread, and recently somebody succeeded in actually scamming me (i'm not going to go into details, since i've actually made arrangements with another member in order to minimize the financial loss i had, and i haven't discussed with this member wether or not i can link his name to this thread).

Apparently, some lendee's abuse the fact that they're free to take several loans at the same time using PM's (so there's no trace), offering insufficient or no collateral, and run with the loaned coins. The lenders stay behind, and can only -ve the account (in case it wasn't used as collateral)... In the end, there's not a lot you can do...

Now, if a user was restricted to taking 1 loan at a time, the problem would be a lot less severe (in my opinion)... once you've granted a loan, you can either sell the collateral, or -ve the main account in case of default, without having to consider other open loans that might influence the net worth of the collateral, or the reputation of the lendee, since you are in fact his only creditor...

I'm proposing the following, and would like to find out if there's some intrest in this project:
I can write a public, anonymous, open ledger of open loans. If enough lenders put all their open loans in the ledger, it would become harder for a scammer to ask for 2 loans at the same time (even in PM). As a lender, you would just check the BCT-username (or uid) of the person asking for a loan in the ledger... If he has an open loan, you can still grant him a new loan at your own discretion, but then at least you know that the lendee is already paying off a previous debt.
I would make the ledger anonymous, and moderated. This means that a lender could enter his loanthread, signed messages and tx id's IF he wanted to. If he didn't enter this information, a lendee could ask for the information to be removed due to lack of proof. The only required input would be: the lenders name, the lendee's name. Optional input would be the thread, messages, tx id's, default date,... . I wouldn't add the intrestrate, payback plans,... since i don't want the ledger to be an easy place where a lendee can compare intrestrates, and shop around for his/her loan.
I would keep the ledger free, without forced donation or something, maybe even open source,... There wouldn't be any private data in the ledger anyways, so security shouldn't be an issue. Since i pay for a dedicated box and domainnames anyways, i could just host the ledger script on my server...

Once again, i'm just finding out if there is public intrest in such a project... So please leave me your remarks!
If you're not interested in this project, but you have another idear to fight scammers together, don't hesistate to elaborate!

PS: Please, do not reply to this thread if you're not a lender on this forum. I would like to keep this topic clean

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[UserVVIP]

This seems like something that can be useful.

I would rather recommend a chrome extension instead.

[altcoinhosting]

This seems like something that can be useful.

I would rather recommend a chrome extension instead.

You are completely right... A browser extension would make the job even easyer... To be honest, i wouldn't know how to make such an extension tough...

I could generate an online ledger with API, and let the community generate smartphone-apps, plugins and extensions as they please...

[whywefight]

i like the basic idea and i would supprt it!

[masterzino]

I'm not a lender, but I'm planning to become

Here is how it could be realized:

1. All users with lending thread get writing access
2. Could write just basic stuff - bitcointalk username and amount // marking as paid of defaulted on action
3. Front user interface (even public one) where you could just enter any nick and check is there an outstanding loans or not.

It would be helpful not only to lenders, but all account traders and anyone who want to make a deal with the user.

[altcoinhosting]

I'm not a lender, but I'm planning to become

Here is how it could be realized:

1. All users with lending thread get writing access
2. Could write just basic stuff - bitcointalk username and amount // marking as paid of defaulted on action
3. Front user interface (even public one) where you could just enter any nick and check is there an outstanding loans or not.

It would be helpful not only to lenders, but all account traders and anyone who want to make a deal with the user.

Thanks, you more or less describe what i was planning to do 

i like the basic idea and i would supprt it!

Thanks for the support!

If i get some of the big lenders on board, i'll start making a demo, and post it here for feedback...

[altcoinhosting]

I would keep the database really simple, something like this:

http://www.altcoinhosting.com/ledger/schema.html

Any comments are welcomed!

[masterzino]

I think even this is much more than required.
Or at least make more of the fields optional.

For example I may want to not disclose tx info or exactly what is the collateral.

And public info is good also be simple - lender, lendee, amount, till date.

[altcoinhosting]

I think even this is much more than required.
Or at least make more of the fields optional.

For example I may want to not disclose tx info or exactly what is the collateral.

And public info is good also be simple - lender, lendee, amount, till date.

Most of the fields are optional, you can check the column 'NULL', if it has a value 'NO' null values are not allowed, if it has a value 'YES', it's optional

So, basically, only the lender and lendee are mandatory, the rest is optional... It is however still a usefull to know tx's, values, signatures, just in case a lendee claims he didn't take a loan (or at least, that's my idear behind it). If there is a concensus to add/remove fields, i'm certainly open to discussion.

[MrPeoples]

We need a loan bot like on /Borrow on Reddit.

It works perfectly.

I could develop something similar if anyone wishes to fund it.

[whywefight]

I would keep the database really simple, something like this:

http://www.altcoinhosting.com/ledger/schema.html

Any comments are welcomed!

Got a demo ready? XD

[EthanB]

I am a new lender on this forum, and though my loans are small I am in support of this! I would participate to the fullest.

[monbux]

A much easier way to fight this:

Get all lenders (the main ones at least) to REQUIRE the borrower to post his/her loan request publicly on their loaning thread, as well as try and update their current loans section.

[--Encrypted--]

might as well leave this here. combine this with monbux's proposal (for reference) and boom.

I have a question. maybe a suggestion

so, fewer people uses "no collateral no loan" policy now when high ranking/trusted members asks for a loan, and I saw this thread where somebody gave a loan to another user without realizing that the said user already have an active loan.
that got me thinking, why don't we try to prevent that kind of "accidents" by leaving a neutral feedback to whoever it is that is currently borrowing their money?

so, I'm asking everyone's opinion on this. is this a good idea or not? and what are the flaws?

[Sir_lagsalot]

This seems like something that can be useful.

I would rather recommend a chrome extension instead.

You could make some sort of lending forum, and a special extension that actually works, unlike some extensions

[altcoinhosting]

Actually, guys, I like most of the idears that were outed in this thread:

• my own idear, of making a central ledger
• UserVVIP's idear of making a browser extension (altough, that might be combinable with some of the other idears)
• MrPeoples' idear of a loan bot
• monbux' idear to enforce all bigger lenders to maintain their thread
• --Encrypted--'s idear to leave a neutral comment for everybody taking a loan
• Sir_lagsalot's idear for a lending subforum
• TheGr33k's idear of a loanthread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1203224.0

How about this idear: We discuss these possiblity's (other one's might be added to), and afterwards open a poll? Offcourse we can only do this if all lenders stick together, and more or less follow the outcome of said poll

Here are my idears about the suggested sollutions, i'll add all extra comments from replys i agree with:

my own idear, of making a central ledger
pro's:

• system with all loans in one place
• I can make an API so the tool can be incorporated into other projects
• Can be expanded in the future, for example: lenders could have a little dashboard displaying their open loans, with a payment calendar or something (just thinking out loud)
• I have both the hosting and the knowledge to write this for free

cons:

• It's a tool that's not hosted on bitcointalk.org
• it's centralised
• it's extra administration
• it doesn't scrape the forum, so it has to be manually maintained (Vod's comment)

UserVVIP's idear of making a browser extension
pros:

• you can add loans and lookup loans from your browser!
• it can be combined with a couple other idears

cons:

• i more or less think it HAS to be combined with another idear (the extension would need a database afterall)

MrPeoples' idear of a loan bot
This is one where i need some help: i don't know reddit's loanbot... The only obvious con, is that it'll cost some community bucks. So we would need a fundraiser..

monbux' idear to enforce all bigger lenders to maintain their thread
pros:

• it would take no extra effort, everybody already has a loanthread
• it's the easyest sollution, it keeps everything on bitcointalk.org

cons:

• you would still need to search before finding out if somebody already has an open loan or not

--Encrypted--'s idear to leave a neutral comment for everybody taking a loan
pros:

• Simple and elegant solution, i think this will actually work
• it keeps everything on bitcointalk.org

cons:

• using the unmoderated trust feedback. In case a lender falls off the grid, the feedback sticks to the lendee's profile (comment by --Encrypted--)

Sir_lagsalot's idear for a lending subforum
I think we already have one . Opening a new subforum might work for a while, but i think in a matter of weeks/months it would be exactly the same situation it is today?

TheGr33k's idear of a loanthread
pros:

• Simple
• it keeps everything on bitcointalk.org

cons:

• you still have to browse the whole thread
• it takes an equal amount of time to enter the info in the thread as it takes to enter the info in a custom tool

[--Encrypted--]

hrrmmm... I might have found something that will make my own idea have bad consequences in the long run.

basically, my idea requires the lender to remove their feedback once the loan has been repaid. but I forgot to take inactivity into account (a lender might suddenly go silent and never remove their feedback)

for some reason I didn't think of this until now. 

but this can be neutralized to some degree by providing a reference link on all of your feedback so that lenders can check the latest "loan" feedback reference to see if the loan has been repaid or not. in this case, lenders may leave those feedbacks as they are rather than removing it after the loan has been repaid.

[altcoinhosting]

hrrmmm... I might have found something that will make my own idea have bad consequences in the long run.

basically, my idea requires the lender to remove their feedback once the loan has been repaid. but I forgot to take inactivity into account (a lender might suddenly go silent and never remove their feedback)

for some reason I didn't think of this until now. 

but this can be neutralized to some degree by providing a reference link on all of your feedback so that lenders can check the latest "loan" feedback reference to see if the loan has been repaid or not. in this case, lenders may leave those feedbacks as they are rather than removing it after the loan has been repaid.

Good point, i'm adding this to my overview... I still like your  idear, and think it's a good candidate for a community sollution

[whywefight]

A much easier way to fight this:

Get all lenders (the main ones at least) to REQUIRE the borrower to post his/her loan request publicly on their loaning thread, as well as try and update their current loans section.

yupp ofc, but still you have to check all the places. thats what most ppl do but some users manage to slip thru

[masterzino]

For me simple things are best.

Inactivity is a problem with all of the ideas - e.g. trust should be removed, record from DB should be removed - in all cases lender should confirm he got his money back.

But simple public interface where to check by username (user id) is best.

Because extension is harder for development and require all of lenders to use same browser?! I may like chrome, firefox or even new IE.