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Author Topic: Lenders fighting SCAM together  (Read 3799 times)
altcoinhosting
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October 07, 2015, 01:36:10 PM
 #21

I'm developing a small, functioning but limited demo as we speak...

http://www.altcoinhosting.com/ledger/

It looks terrible, and not all functions are already implemented, but it should give a basic idear about my proposal...

Don't worry if you get errors or timeouts, i'm developing it as we speak (i guess i'll finish the demo tomorrow afternoon when i have some more time)

At the moment, no loans can be inserted, edited or deleted... This means you CAN generate a password for yourself, but you cannot add anything, so you'll basically see an empty table when you login with your own uid. I manually added some of my open loans directly into the database, you're free to look at the lenders demo dashboard using my uid (513122) and the password 'test' (no quotes).
I filled in most of the fields when adding my own loans, but only lender and lendee are actually required Smiley

Last point of order: it's demo software... The security isn't good yet, please do not enter your personal passwords (they are hashed, but during the session they are stored unencrypted).
Also, i don't do a lot of input verification yet...  Embarrassed

My Todo list to transform this demo into functioning software (most of this will only happen if we vote on this subject, and the majority of the lenders choses to use this tool)
  • Add some .css to make this look nice
  • Beef up the security (input validation, only cache encrypted passwords
  • Sort-functionality on the public page
  • when adding a password to your uid, giving the possibility to add standard values for your uid to the database(like loanthread)
  • in the dashboard, add the functionality to remove, add and delete loans
  • in the dashboard, add sorting and searching functionality
  • in the dashboard, add a nice overview (invested amount, open loans, defaulted loans,...)
  • pagination Smiley
  • a basic public and private API

 

                                       
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LedgerWallet








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October 07, 2015, 06:58:11 PM
 #22

I'm developing a small, functioning but limited demo as we speak...

http://www.altcoinhosting.com/ledger/

It looks terrible, and not all functions are already implemented, but it should give a basic idear about my proposal...

Don't worry if you get errors or timeouts, i'm developing it as we speak (i guess i'll finish the demo tomorrow afternoon when i have some more time)

At the moment, no loans can be inserted, edited or deleted... This means you CAN generate a password for yourself, but you cannot add anything, so you'll basically see an empty table when you login with your own uid. I manually added some of my open loans directly into the database, you're free to look at the lenders demo dashboard using my uid (513122) and the password 'test' (no quotes).
I filled in most of the fields when adding my own loans, but only lender and lendee are actually required Smiley

Last point of order: it's demo software... The security isn't good yet, please do not enter your personal passwords (they are hashed, but during the session they are stored unencrypted).
Also, i don't do a lot of input verification yet...  Embarrassed

My Todo list to transform this demo into functioning software (most of this will only happen if we vote on this subject, and the majority of the lenders choses to use this tool)
  • Add some .css to make this look nice
  • Beef up the security (input validation, only cache encrypted passwords
  • Sort-functionality on the public page
  • when adding a password to your uid, giving the possibility to add standard values for your uid to the database(like loanthread)
  • in the dashboard, add the functionality to remove, add and delete loans
  • in the dashboard, add sorting and searching functionality
  • in the dashboard, add a nice overview (invested amount, open loans, defaulted loans,...)
  • pagination Smiley
  • a basic public and private API

looks good so far. yeah css would be nice. also data of defaulted loans should not be deleted. 2fa would be cool.

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October 07, 2015, 07:55:07 PM
 #23



looks good so far. yeah css would be nice. also data of defaulted loans should not be deleted. 2fa would be cool.

2fa will go on my todo list Wink (css is already on there)

What kind of 2fa were you thinking about?
I could send a mail, but in that case the lender should enter his email (making the system less anonymous). Maybe user/pass, and afterwards sign a new login message with the bitcoinaddress in the profile each login?

maybe i should remove the delete-button, so no data will ever be deleted?

 

                                       
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October 07, 2015, 08:19:28 PM
 #24



looks good so far. yeah css would be nice. also data of defaulted loans should not be deleted. 2fa would be cool.

2fa will go on my todo list Wink (css is already on there)

What kind of 2fa were you thinking about?
I could send a mail, but in that case the lender should enter his email (making the system less anonymous). Maybe user/pass, and afterwards sign a new login message with the bitcoinaddress in the profile each login?

maybe i should remove the delete-button, so no data will ever be deleted?

i dont know if you can go with google auth but thats very common, at least for me. email would also be okay, imho. i am fine with all the data around

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October 08, 2015, 01:26:33 AM
 #25

Look nice!

Now the big question is - How/who will determinate whom should have access to post/modify in it? Smiley

My suggestion is users with lenders threads.

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October 08, 2015, 01:31:33 AM
 #26

I think it could be as simple as one person starting a thread of "Current Loans" and whatever lender wants to participate can place their public loans in this thread.
Would be as simple as clicking that thread and Ctrl + F the user's Name/UID.

OP would handled keeping things updated, and any new loans would just be posted into the thread so OP can organize.
OP acting as a book-keeper for loans, probably would even get stickied.
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October 08, 2015, 01:46:50 AM
 #27

I think it could be as simple as one person starting a thread of "Current Loans" and whatever lender wants to participate can place their public loans in this thread.
Would be as simple as clicking that thread and Ctrl + F the user's Name/UID.

OP would handled keeping things updated, and any new loans would just be posted into the thread so OP can organize.
OP acting as a book-keeper for loans, probably would even get stickied.

It's a nice idea, but what incentive would OP have to do it?
What compensation will have for his time? For example most of the loans are in 0.001-0.01 range. And if you need to pay "attention fee", the fee will eat of of your profit.

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October 08, 2015, 01:49:16 AM
 #28

I think it could be as simple as one person starting a thread of "Current Loans" and whatever lender wants to participate can place their public loans in this thread.
Would be as simple as clicking that thread and Ctrl + F the user's Name/UID.

OP would handled keeping things updated, and any new loans would just be posted into the thread so OP can organize.
OP acting as a book-keeper for loans, probably would even get stickied.

It's a nice idea, but what incentive would OP have to do it?
What compensation will have for his time? For example most of the loans are in 0.001-0.01 range. And if you need to pay "attention fee", the fee will eat of of your profit.

I would do it for the sake of saving everyone headaches.
Honestly I don't see it as much of a hassle if everyone posts the loan on the thread and OP adds it to his log, when the loan is concluded the lender contacts OP to have the loan updated.
Wouldn't be hard, and honestly shouldn't need incentive if it's saving BTC from the wrong hands.


Let's not waste any time : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1203224.0
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October 08, 2015, 01:57:59 AM
 #29

I think it could be as simple as one person starting a thread of "Current Loans" and whatever lender wants to participate can place their public loans in this thread.
Would be as simple as clicking that thread and Ctrl + F the user's Name/UID.

OP would handled keeping things updated, and any new loans would just be posted into the thread so OP can organize.
OP acting as a book-keeper for loans, probably would even get stickied.

It's a nice idea, but what incentive would OP have to do it?
What compensation will have for his time? For example most of the loans are in 0.001-0.01 range. And if you need to pay "attention fee", the fee will eat of of your profit.

I would do it for the sake of saving everyone headaches.
Honestly I don't see it as much of a hassle if everyone posts the loan on the thread and OP adds it to his log, when the loan is concluded the lender contacts OP to have the loan updated.
Wouldn't be hard, and honestly shouldn't need incentive if it's saving BTC from the wrong hands.

Agree. But but it will be much more diligent for be on a DB with search instead of searching a thread with zillion messages. And it will take equal time for the lender to put in on DB instead of thread. Then will be quicker to mark it as paid on DB instead of thread. My thoughts are about simplicity and time consumption.

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TheGr33k
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October 08, 2015, 02:03:11 AM
 #30

I think it could be as simple as one person starting a thread of "Current Loans" and whatever lender wants to participate can place their public loans in this thread.
Would be as simple as clicking that thread and Ctrl + F the user's Name/UID.

OP would handled keeping things updated, and any new loans would just be posted into the thread so OP can organize.
OP acting as a book-keeper for loans, probably would even get stickied.

It's a nice idea, but what incentive would OP have to do it?
What compensation will have for his time? For example most of the loans are in 0.001-0.01 range. And if you need to pay "attention fee", the fee will eat of of your profit.

I would do it for the sake of saving everyone headaches.
Honestly I don't see it as much of a hassle if everyone posts the loan on the thread and OP adds it to his log, when the loan is concluded the lender contacts OP to have the loan updated.
Wouldn't be hard, and honestly shouldn't need incentive if it's saving BTC from the wrong hands.

Agree. But but it will be much more diligent for be on a DB with search instead of searching a thread with zillion messages. And it will take equal time for the lender to put in on DB instead of thread. Then will be quicker to mark it as paid on DB instead of thread. My thoughts are about simplicity and time consumption.

I'll maintain a thread until this occurs, and hopefully it'll be helpful to some degree in the meantime. Any interested lenders can contact me via pm, or post on the thread and I'll add all their active loans.
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October 08, 2015, 04:54:15 AM
 #31

i agree, but more likely lead to admin abuse.

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October 08, 2015, 05:50:05 AM
 #32

Hi Guys, i tried to respond to most of the questions raised during my offline time  Grin

i dont know if you can go with google auth but thats very common, at least for me. email would also be okay, imho. i am fine with all the data around

I can look into getting google 2fa to, it's not a real technical issue  Smiley

Look nice!

Now the big question is - How/who will determinate whom should have access to post/modify in it? Smiley

My suggestion is users with lenders threads.

I can add a mandatory field: loan thread when assigning a password to your uid... That way, it would be easy to moderate. In case of abuse: check if the loanthread is indeed opened by the person who's uid is intered...


I would do it for the sake of saving everyone headaches.
Honestly I don't see it as much of a hassle if everyone posts the loan on the thread and OP adds it to his log, when the loan is concluded the lender contacts OP to have the loan updated.
Wouldn't be hard, and honestly shouldn't need incentive if it's saving BTC from the wrong hands.


Let's not waste any time : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1203224.0

I like your idear, i'll add it to the op, and to the poll i'll open today or tomorrow. Thanks!

i agree, but more likely lead to admin abuse.

True... That's indeed a big downside. I could give access to a databasedump to a couple trusted members, in case i'm corrupted, they can restore the database and take me out of the picture. Would that help?

 

                                       
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October 08, 2015, 05:52:58 AM
 #33

Thanks for the acknowledgement of my idear Tongue and I hope that we can get a working system implemented that'll make this a whole lot easier ASAP because currently it's a lot of investigative work prior to throwing anybody a loan from the lender's point of view. My thread isn't much right now, but I'm sure as more and more lenders throw in their active loans and keep it up to date it'll be a valuable resource to check at the very least prior to lending.
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October 08, 2015, 06:08:52 AM
 #34

Thanks for the acknowledgement of my idear Tongue and I hope that we can get a working system implemented that'll make this a whole lot easier ASAP because currently it's a lot of investigative work prior to throwing anybody a loan from the lender's point of view. My thread isn't much right now, but I'm sure as more and more lenders throw in their active loans and keep it up to date it'll be a valuable resource to check at the very least prior to lending.

The only thing that worries me about your thread is the sheer amount of work you'll have to put into it to keep it active... As long as you're willing to do that, it might be one of the best sollutions...
I'm just worried one day you won't have time anymore to update the thread Wink
Well... I think i'll open a poll at the end of today's workday, and i'll just follow the majority of the voters... wether it's my system, or any other system that was proposed, i'll go for it. In the end, the scamming has to stop, that's the most important thing  Grin

 

                                       
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October 08, 2015, 06:15:18 AM
 #35

Thanks for the acknowledgement of my idear Tongue and I hope that we can get a working system implemented that'll make this a whole lot easier ASAP because currently it's a lot of investigative work prior to throwing anybody a loan from the lender's point of view. My thread isn't much right now, but I'm sure as more and more lenders throw in their active loans and keep it up to date it'll be a valuable resource to check at the very least prior to lending.

The only thing that worries me about your thread is the sheer amount of work you'll have to put into it to keep it active... As long as you're willing to do that, it might be one of the best sollutions...
I'm just worried one day you won't have time anymore to update the thread Wink
Well... I think i'll open a poll at the end of today's workday, and i'll just follow the majority of the voters... wether it's my system, or any other system that was proposed, i'll go for it. In the end, the scamming has to stop, that's the most important thing  Grin

If the thread becomes too much of a hassle, or if my availability suddenly shrinks then hopefully one of the alternative solutions have progressed to a significant degree! I don't mind doing the work for now, it's always nice to have something to do when you're bored and I'll start to make an "Update schedule" so that it'll be updated maybe once at 11AM and again at 11PM or something similar to that.
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October 08, 2015, 07:28:51 AM
 #36

Not sure if this is already reported:

- search does not work
- fetching my data works
- lenders dashboard is blank after login, but i think that current status of development.

tdlr: i want to play with it Cheesy

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October 08, 2015, 07:35:05 AM
 #37

Not sure if this is already reported:

- search does not work
- fetching my data works
- lenders dashboard is blank after login, but i think that current status of development.

tdlr: i want to play with it Cheesy

Indeed, it's in development Wink I'm looking for a lot of community support before i invest a lot more time (it would be a waste if i spend hours developing, but the community choses a different path)

I can add a couple demo-loans for you directly in the database if you'd like to see something in your dashboard, or i could add the basic submit-form..
I'm still not completely convinced i'll provide delete and edit-functionality... Maybe just an add-form, and a button to indicate the loan has been repayed/defaulted... Just to make it a static ledger...

 

                                       
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October 08, 2015, 07:51:51 AM
 #38

Not sure if this is already reported:

- search does not work
- fetching my data works
- lenders dashboard is blank after login, but i think that current status of development.

tdlr: i want to play with it Cheesy

Indeed, it's in development Wink I'm looking for a lot of community support before i invest a lot more time (it would be a waste if i spend hours developing, but the community choses a different path)

I can add a couple demo-loans for you directly in the database if you'd like to see something in your dashboard, or i could add the basic submit-form..
I'm still not completely convinced i'll provide delete and edit-functionality... Maybe just an add-form, and a button to indicate the loan has been repayed/defaulted... Just to make it a static ledger...
its a lot hardwork from you..i mean just for micro loans though, it can be stopped if taken care at that moment itself.
however keep up the good work.
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October 08, 2015, 08:50:34 AM
 #39

its a lot hardwork from you..i mean just for micro loans though, it can be stopped if taken care at that moment itself.
however keep up the good work.

You're right... It's hard work Wink
BUT, i really hate people that scam, and since i think of this as a one-time job (finding a community concensus, and maybe build a ledger), i'm willing to do it Smiley

BTW: i added the possibility to add loans to the ledger!!!
The database will be truncated (swiped) after the demo-phase, so you can add some demo-loans if you wish!

 

                                       
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LedgerWallet








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October 08, 2015, 09:06:55 AM
 #40

The poll is open!!! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1203414.0

 

                                       
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LedgerWallet








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