[WTB][EU] Sfards, Alchemist, KNC Titan or Innosylicon A2 Scrypt miners

[carlosmnk]

Hi everybody. I was looking for buying some scrypt miner to mine LTC, but i've seen the prices must drop if you want to do ROI in 350-400 days with the actual reward (25 LTC).

I've calculated what i could pay to buy theese miners and i think i'm doing some think wrong:

To do ROI in 365 days i must buy:

A2 Terminator (88Mh/s with 880w) for 1.8BTC
A2 Terminator (110Mh/s with 1100w) for 2.25BTC
A2 Terminator mini also!
Alchemier Scrypt miner (96Mh/s with 850w) for 2.25 BTC
Sfards dual miner for 3.0 BTC

Is this possible?? is LTC market dead?

EDIT: Also i'm looking for a KNC Titan controller...

[amidaemon]

price multiple x2 or x3, then guys will sell to you asic )

[carlosmnk]

price multiple x2 or x3, then guys will sell to you asic )

I know, i don't like theese prices if i would sell, but i can't see roi's investment right now... But i think there can be more profit on LTC than BTC right now... ATM i'll be patience and ear higher offers... I have some power for this kind of miners...

[MarkAz]

My 2c on the subject - I think on the hardware side, there isn't anything new that anyone has been talking about, the Sfards chip was the latest one released and it wasn't that much more compelling than what was already available.  With Scrypt miners, their efficiency in terms of power consumption is so much lower than SHA256, that the trick to ROI is much more about power costs than anything else.

I personally mine both, and in terms of return for me the Terminator 110's net about the same as S5's - but at about 2x the cost in power.  The trick is that I mine on a switching pool on Scrypt, and last weekend it was perfoming > 150%, so the net results from that is I'm making 3.5x what the S5 makes (because the gross is higher on Scrypt).  Of course the latest SHA256 miners are way more efficient - but I look at that less from the profit standpoint, and more from the flexibility in location selection and larger scaling without big costs.

[carlosmnk]

bump, also seeking a KNC controller...

[thedreamer]

price multiple x2 or x3, then guys will sell to you asic )

Exactly. Nobody will sell you a miner for that low if they could get 1.5-2x that anytime on eBay even. Lol

[carlosmnk]

price multiple x2 or x3, then guys will sell to you asic )

Exactly. Nobody will sell you a miner for that low if they could get 1.5-2x that anytime on eBay even. Lol

well, i put this prices because i'll roi them in 450 days or more, so, the ebay buyers have a cheaper electricity or they don't use roi calculators (or i'm using them wrong)...

[carlosmnk]

Please, look at the pic, theese are my numbers, i am wrong?

If an A2 that makes 110Mhs give me 0,72€/day, to make roi in 350 days i can pay 216€, then, if i pay 900€ for that miner i'll be roi in 1250 days... (if the miner is still working, the diff is still the same, the change ltc/eur is not down and the reward is still 25LTC   

[charles2k]

For such prices - good luck...
On multipools you can mine 10-20% more.

BTW I have in EU Innosilicon A2 miners 88/110MH and Alcheminer 256M.
I can sell some, but price will be higher.

[thedreamer]

price multiple x2 or x3, then guys will sell to you asic )

Exactly. Nobody will sell you a miner for that low if they could get 1.5-2x that anytime on eBay even. Lol

well, i put this prices because i'll roi them in 450 days or more, so, the ebay buyers have a cheaper electricity or they don't use roi calculators (or i'm using them wrong)...

It's not about your ROI, it's about supply vs demand. If someone can sell product 'A' for more than your offer they won't care for your ROI calculation or rational for pricing. Sorry to be blunt.

Also, if you mine smart you can earn 40% higher than base LTC prices.

[KNCFUN]

thedreamer what do you mean mine smart ?
where ? and which coin ? because so far i don't see a stable pool except for LTC

[ezeminer]

thedreamer what do you mean mine smart ?
where ? and which coin ? because so far i don't see a stable pool except for LTC

There are pools that rotate based on the best price, difficulty, and hashrate. Other words that will make you the most money.

Coinwarz also has a nice chart to compare the hashrate, power, roi scenario.

[KNCFUN]

I know about these pools but they don't work stable, for example H2C....
Can you point a good one ?

[MarkAz]

I second what thedreamer said - there's a big difference between mining scrypt effectively and SHA256.  

With my bitcoin miners, I basically point them at their pool, watch their hash rates and if they drop for some reason then I reboot them.  That's it.

With scrypt miners (Terminator's for me), you can point them at auto-switching pools, such as CleverMining.com, which does a surprisingly well job of switching, and generally does about 120% of LTC.  Or if you want something a bit more stable, you can do NiceHash.com, which I believe averages the same (but via a different mechanism).  CleverMining will sometimes spike as high as 160%, and I've seen it drop down in the 70-80% as well on occasion, but the vast majority it's in the 110-120% range.

But the best bang for the buck is to solomine some of the altcoins - using coinwarz is one way to get a sense of what's happening, but there are some coins that don't lend themselves to you throwing a bunch of hash at them.  When it happens, if you're there and rocking, you can make a killing - when PotCoin switched from POW to POS, I was probably making 400% over LTC for about a week, it was awesome.

One more thing to point out about these "above LTC" percentages - while they may seem low, because the return is generally higher on the machine, it has more impact.  For instance (and these are just rough numbers), but I gross $3 on an S5 per day, net about $2.  With a 110's I'll gross about $4, net about $2.50... Even at 120%, that's 120% of $4, so you've increased your margin by $0.80 - and if you hit some good altcoin, getting in the 200% range isn't that uncommon, and now your profit is much bigger, your cost basis is still only $1.5, but your net is now $6.50.

Anyway, I enjoy scrypt, it's certainly more of a 'mining' experience and if you fiddle with things you can pretty easily make more than pure LTC returns.  

The other thing I always get a kick out of with these ROI calculators is they seem to assume the device is worth nothing a year later.  I bought my S5's for $450, now a year later they sell for $350, I've made well over $450 mining with it, so I didn't just break even - my profit comes after the initial return, PLUS whatever I sell the device for.  For many of these devices they just move to different countries with cheaper power where it's still cost effective to mine.  Even using the ROI calc numbers above, throwing this same miner on a 120% pool changes the return from 92.07 to 110.48 euro, and your profit goes from 21.58 to 39.99 euro (your power costs stay the same) - so that extra 20% almost doubles your profit.

And one last thing, the kW charge in the calculator is ~$0.10/kWh, which is probably at the edge of profitability.  So just because you pay quite a bit for power doesn't mean other people do (I pay less than half of that now) - so what works ROI for you has no bearing on the actual value of the device on the market - it's just harder for you to make money on the thing under the same conditions as other people.  Personally at that power rate I would be looking at things like the S7 and efficiency, not scrypt.