[ANN] FractalCoin community takeover and new website FractalCoin.us

[runpaint]

Here's the previous Fractalcoin topic:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=650173.0


The devs abandoned this coin about 2 months after they launched it, and a few of us have kept it alive for over a year. 

The main problem IMO was that the block reward dropped straight from 40 FRAC to 1 FRAC per block.  Miners immediately dropped out all at the same time, the difficulty was stuck very high, and the coin almost died. 

The coin is now running with transaction fees as the only block reward. 

On the plus side, there are only about 735,000 coins in total supply, no more are being generated, and today's dumping activity took the price from 3200 sats to 1600.  (https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/FRAC_BTC)

So if you like rare coins with low supply and no inflation, I don't know of any that are cheaper.




The new website is http://fractalcoin.us, please reply here with any feedback or links you'd like added.

[MbccompanyX]

Maybe i will add this coin to my coin list if became listed on coinmarketcap.... anyway it sucks that it passed from 30 to 1....

[lulla.by]

More info about new development?

[runpaint]

Maybe i will add this coin to my coin list if became listed on coinmarketcap.... anyway it sucks that it passed from 30 to 1....

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/fractalcoin/

[rendravolt]

Supply low, I like 

[runpaint]

More info about new development?

I looked into creating a new Fractalcoin on the NXT Monetary System, and I'm talking to Cryptsy about the possibility of swapping all the coins on the exchange to a new coin.

If we did that, we would require that the old coins be burned in order to redeem coins on the new blockchain.  That way the old coins couldn't still be traded - even if an exchange kept the old version listed, there wouldn't be any coins left to trade if everyone burned their coins and swapped them for the new version.  

But then I expanded the idea;  if we're making a new coin, and destroying an old coin, in order to help people who are holding a bag of dying coins, then why not help more than one coin?  

Here are the problems we're looking at:

#1.  There are too many altcoins
#2.  Most altcoins lack development and community support
#3.  It would benefit the entire market if some of these altcoins disappeared
#4.  People are already invested in these altcoins and have no easy way out, so most coins will continue to exist
#5.  Every altcoin can continue to exist indefinitely with only a handful of users


So if we create a new Fractalcoin, have we really made any progress?  The blockchain would run smoother, the coin would survive longer, but otherwise we'd be back where we started:  just another altcoin among thousands.

Instead of issuing the new coin only to people who burn Fractalcoins, what if we accepted multiple altcoins for burning?  The idea is to get rid of entire altcoins and combine their coin supplies and communities into a much stronger coin.  

If the coin is weak then people will probably burn it for a new coin.  If the entire supply is burned, then it won't exist anymore.  Mission accomplished, we've lowered the total supply of altcoins and increased the rarity of the rest of the coins still on market.  

On the other hand, if half the supply is burned but the other half continue to be traded, then maybe the coin will become stronger with a lower supply and higher value.  Then it's not a dying coin anymore, mission accomplished.  

But I will say that if this project happens, I will burn all my Fractalcoins for the new coin, in order to keep everything honest.  I'm not going to manipulate the markets, and I'm not trying to get everyone else to burn their coins so mine are worth more.  I'm trying to swap Fractalcoin to a new blockchain, and that new blockchain might also include several other coins joining the party.  

[l8orre]

I think this is a brillant idea that might acutally work!

[eB101]

I agree, great idea. I think it can be good only if you do include other dying altcoins/scams (at least 10, ideally many more).

I don't have any shitcoin(except maybe for cryptocircuits) but I will be following this.

PS: I just went to check an old account and realized I have some Globe, and SourceCoin. Would that count for example? it can still be withdrawn according to Poloniex, but your challenge will be to get a working client for all those shitcoins to verify the balances (unless you work with ss verifications etc..)

[Blawpaw]

Wow... Thought Fractal was dead.

I've mine quite a lot but haven't heard about the project for quite some time now!
Happy to see that the community is still up and running and with a whole new set of ideas!

[runpaint]

I agree, great idea. I think it can be good only if you do include other dying altcoins/scams (at least 10, ideally many more).

Right now the plan is to launch with 3 coins and allow 30 days for the coins to be burned and swapped. 

After that we can choose a new coin, hopefully every month. 

There won't be an IPO, ICO, pre-sale, or any premined coins for the devs.  The coins will have to be generated, but they will remain in the burnfund until exchanged.  We will only get coins if we burn for them just like everyone else.

We will announce the exchange rate and it will stay the same for the 30-day burn period, which should help prevent any shenanigans.  For example, if we decide to honor Fractalcoin at 5000 satoshis, and we estimate the value of the new coin at a launch rate of 10,000 satoshis, then we will exchange 1 coin for every 2 FRAC (or .5 coins per FRAC).

Before we announce a new coin to be accepted for burn redemption, there will have to be enough coins in the burnfund to buy out that coin's entire supply.  So as the coin's price goes higher, we'll be able to afford more coins in the future because we'll have a better exchange rate.  When people invest in this coin, they'll be helping to destroy other altcoins and clear out the crowded market.

There are some limitations to which coins we can "buy out":

 - If a coin has a marketcap higher than the value of the coins in our burnfund, we can't afford to accept it for burn redemption
 - If a coin is already dead, the blockchain is forked or stalled, transactions can't be processed, then we can't accept it for burn
 - If a coin is already delisted from all exchanges, there's no reason for us to accept it because it's already off the market
 - If a coin has high block rewards or high POS, so that the coin supply could easily be replaced after we burn it, then we can't accept it for burn

[eB101]

I agree, great idea. I think it can be good only if you do include other dying altcoins/scams (at least 10, ideally many more).

- If a coin is already delisted from all exchanges, there's no reason for us to accept it because it's already off the market

makes sense, thanks for the details. I will follow once it is running, directly from the nxt client which is great Good luck

[BitcoinNational]

before moving to NXT as the 'solution'

FRAC was well designed and likely can still be a successful network

can we get some numbers on the hash rate?

x11 algo means massive hash numbers not necessary
this coin still might be able to work up the ladder of price/hash rate

NEEDED

explorer
nodes
minepools 

[runpaint]

before moving to NXT as the 'solution'

FRAC was well designed and likely can still be a successful network

can we get some numbers on the hash rate?

x11 algo means massive hash numbers not necessary
this coin still might be able to work up the ladder of price/hash rate

NEEDED

explorer
nodes
minepools 

Nobody's mining because the block rewards have ended.  There's one mining pool still open, links are at Fractalcoin.us, we have an explorer at Multifaucet.tk, also linked at Fractalcoin.us.

But until we get a new wallet released, we won't be able to have a DNS seeder, so nobody will be able to find connections without adding nodes manually or downloading the peers.dat and/or .conf from Fractalcoin.us.

But it's up to everyone what happens.  If we burn 50% of the coin's supply, it's capable of continuing with a total supply of under 400,000 coins.  Fractalcoin.us will be up for at least a year even if we all die and it doesn't get renewed.  But then what will change? 

If the coin survives, it will need a new wallet and maybe a new blockchain.  So as long as everyone will be required to swap over anyway, why not swap to something with a better purpose? 

But like I said, it's not necessarily an either/or.  People who think Fractalcoin won't survive can burn their coins for the new coin.  People who want to stick with Fractalcoin can keep their coins and try to make it work. 

[BitcoinNational]

well now that there is a website ... cryptopia provides a solution to mining ... getting listed there might be the best priority ... give a little more time if/when switching to NXT


i forget the numbers but FRAC has a heavy TX fee ... that should bring on some hash power ... and the effect is that the coins don't move often ... akin to real estate ... you sit on it until need to sell ... driven in part by cost to transfer title ... FRAC kinda is the same concept.

"burn their coins for the new coin"
explain more pls 

[runpaint]

t.

"burn their coins for the new coin"
explain more pls  

At first we wanted to make a new Fractalcoin on a new blockchain.  So all users could be issued the new coins by burning their coins from the old blockchain.  That way it's a full transfer to the new coin;  if we make a new blockchain with a snapshot, and everybody gets their new coins but still has their old coins, Cryptsy could decide to keep the old blockchain listed and then people would have the same coins on both chains.  That's what happened with Protoshares.  So burning the coins is the only way to make sure they're really being transferred to a new blockchain rather than just duplicated.

But then, even if we did it successfully, made a new coin and every single user burned his coins and brought them to the new blockchain, then we'd still have a Fractalcoin that is struggling to survive.  What is its real purpose?  Does it offer anything different from 100 other altcoins?  There are too many coins.  

Just like a coin with a high supply has a low value, the entire altcoin market has a low value because the overall supply of altcoins is too high.  Moving every altcoin to its own new blockchain would only perpetuate the problem without fixing anything in the long-term.  

So we figured if we could make a new coin and transfer our Fractalcoins to it...why not transfer Keycoin and Sapience too?  Why not offer more transfers to more coins on a continual basis?

The new coins will be earned by burning the old altcoins.  Coins that have been destroyed can never again be pumped and dumped.  For the people stuck holding a bag, with no way to sell their volume of coins at any price, they can finally get rid of those coins by burning them and earning this new coin instead.

Instead of Proof-of-Burn, it's Multi-Proof-of-Burn.  The price acts as the difficulty - at launch, let's say you can earn 5,000 of the new coin for 10,000 FRAC.  The exchange rate is fixed for the 30-day burn period.  But as the coin gains more users, the difficulty - the price - will hopefully rise.  So when we offer another burn period for another altcoin in the future, then 10,000 altcoins might only bring you 500 of the new coin.  Or 50.  Or 5.  In this way we hope to have a curve of emission over time similar to Bitcoin, which could allow us to continue buying altcoins indefinitely as we approach the maximum supply without ever reaching it.

[BARR_Official]

We're not quite ready for launch yet, but our website is up with some basic information at barr.me

[BARR_Official]

The burn exchange for Fractalcoin begins November 1 and ends November 30.

Here's the topic:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219460.0

[BitcoinNational]

Okay I get "it" better now.
My original impression was FRAC had a small sustain reward but it looks like it has zilch rewards, no?

So this "fee only" concept might have worked if FRAC managed 1000s of TX per day.  But FRAC is not popular today (tomorrow maybe but today it is unnoticed).  And I don't see anyone providing the hash until prices go way up.

So BARR is a good test and might get miners attention to grab some fees.  And I think keeping the option of fully transport on to NXT platform (like NAUT) ought to be on the table say March 1 2016.  

FRAC is a good brand and could become a good DAC/Asset/Community.  So I welcome the BARR experiment.    

And in a funny way this fractures FRAC (1M coins) into:

a. BARRs
b. FRACs traded on cryptsy (if it is still here in 2016)
c. FRACNXTs traded on the NXT system* b.&c. could be combined if BigVern isn't shut down by the Feds.

[runpaint]

Actually Cryptsy wrote me back this week and said they're working on NXT platform integration.  So if FRAC moves to NXT, Cryptsy does seem open to swapping their coins.  They may also keep the original FRAC, splitting Fractalcoin into 3 parts like you say, but hopefully we'll end up with just 2.  Or if we burn everyone's coins, then just 1.  

Of course I'm burning all of mine for BARR, but if the price crashes after the burn period ends, and the coin continues to survive, then I may get re-involved.  Maybe later, since I'm already scraping up every penny to support BARR.

But yes, you're correct that FRAC has 0 block rewards.  IMO that was the original reason the coin crashed, over a year ago - the block reward dropped straight from 40 FRAC to 1 FRAC per block, and miners all immediately stopped mining.  Then the difficulty was stuck for about a month with nobody mining, and the blockchain wasn't moving.  I mined, rented hash, and gave some bounties of .01btc in the Poloniex trollbox for people to mine FRAC, and the difficulty dropped something crazy.  But the damage had already been done, as huge changes in an altcoin market often degrade into feedback loops.  Lower price, less hash, fewer users, more dumping, lower price, less hash, fewer users.

The block reward dropped to 0 a few months ago, and it did not help the price.  Even without the new sell pressure every day, there's still nobody buying.

[jpouza]

Actually Cryptsy wrote me back this week and said they're working on NXT platform integration.  So if FRAC moves to NXT, Cryptsy does seem open to swapping their coins.  They may also keep the original FRAC, splitting Fractalcoin into 3 parts like you say, but hopefully we'll end up with just 2.  Or if we burn everyone's coins, then just 1.  

Of course I'm burning all of mine for BARR, but if the price crashes after the burn period ends, and the coin continues to survive, then I may get re-involved.  Maybe later, since I'm already scraping up every penny to support BARR.

But yes, you're correct that FRAC has 0 block rewards.  IMO that was the original reason the coin crashed, over a year ago - the block reward dropped straight from 40 FRAC to 1 FRAC per block, and miners all immediately stopped mining.  Then the difficulty was stuck for about a month with nobody mining, and the blockchain wasn't moving.  I mined, rented hash, and gave some bounties of .01btc in the Poloniex trollbox for people to mine FRAC, and the difficulty dropped something crazy.  But the damage had already been done, as huge changes in an altcoin market often degrade into feedback loops.  Lower price, less hash, fewer users, more dumping, lower price, less hash, fewer users.

The block reward dropped to 0 a few months ago, and it did not help the price.  Even without the new sell pressure every day, there's still nobody buying.

And nobody will buy this coin, I´m pretty sure of that.

Sorry, but after Earlz, Skunkmonkey and Doge left the coin die even with the community support (including me, who supported it since the begining), there is an invincible assymetry here, specially the moral hazard issue.